From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id EHJxNAddQmMBpQAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 09 Oct 2022 07:32:55 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id eHh7NAddQmMfEwEAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 09 Oct 2022 07:32:55 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 541441EF5C for ; Sun, 9 Oct 2022 07:32:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:38030 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ohOvl-0003q4-6W for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 09 Oct 2022 01:32:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37232) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ohOt5-0003p2-NX for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Oct 2022 01:30:07 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:54323) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ohOt3-0002Ws-L2 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Oct 2022 01:30:07 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.7.157]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000000BBD16.0000000063425C3D.00006E62; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 22:29:32 -0700 Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2022 22:53:57 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: =?utf-8?Q?S=C3=A9bastien?= Gendre Cc: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: How do you manage complex project with Org-mode Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: =?utf-8?Q?S=C3=A9bastien?= Gendre , "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <87tuci9zp6.fsf@k-7.ch> <87fso2awqa.fsf@web.de> <87h78gt7ti.fsf@k-7.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <87h78gt7ti.fsf@k-7.ch> User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.7+37 (a90f69b) (2022-09-02) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -1 X-Spam_score: -0.2 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=1.543, RCVD_IN_SBL=0.141, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1665293575; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=NyjNZELkiIqNRqgVW48NvewBOnoFXkriltsgT9ryVPU=; b=MaqW3jdT48Hn2sclgdzB1dr4yYmjkLWlyRPJAcVxcxch65Ckg4UhYpX06DH/tGxZhvjG7z EP5NwPkifeAKmyNjAj8djcULquw+cADCrEWfDVet9ZuNMDJjdV84341Tlhhl76hWlEtxBs cEecsqgTpktUt5GFsC7uxSBDPjbvR9yUpI2EzWyh9UEX4Dx2l/LvAjRu64sSVqyRTftR9/ 0X6lt+nuXKTPE/kzYpjOHtjZv3ChI6N6DrR9g/kQztzQA+u1fLA0vIyVamg8x+KYc30Bhl 99Jzs+ohUTeP8lufShFIVTLeYVTor1Xb05weErnlK1GpueLWqdhIWDP/sVT39Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1665293575; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=puXIC1liJs6jP0LoSy2FD618OvrgiAEPzy8oW4fRQThDu/OmsLowJK51plEMOW27v0qwdH lhCoAvQGy3OyH9CtN9cB1Je8ITjchE3XvP1jbEz3r8xdxgC4ns0BbByvKPfkJo+WnWFh46 2peScL/Ptyc2s2JIITsTxMOcgR09oh97kA3VwCew3PpJJ9meMHuNADKIDKVHVnNYm82wAB jOvRqocE3l245shN6Wcv47kHDaOcEcZGVPmyCKcXgV69cVpDIAx1sIbzFqXsuhxhpSwGwp Eecxs1Rv/JPIXUjeVOT36fVqDJRtJeuetHqP+OM+yeUEs++nKggoHTtWRaQdLg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 0.11 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 541441EF5C X-Spam-Score: 0.11 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 61R8Th57nQx+ * Sébastien Gendre [2022-03-02 23:44]: > Well, what I want by "follow the progress" is to see: > > * How many work I have done > * How many work remains to be done > * How many time left > * How many time other project need When speaking of multiple projects related to multiple entities such as companies, organizations, people, businesses, one has to divide it all by those groups. And then there is time involved. Any work done has to be calculated maybe in total, but maybe for the project within one group of people, and maybe for one period within the whole time. Thus there are various considerations. What really matter is the priority. Org mode can't know what it is. You know it best. You will know what is priority as for such you don't have much time to write it down, you just do it. Like waking up, brushing teeth, those are actual priorities, we don't write the down. - Units of work or tasks may be subproducts to the actual work, you may do 100 of them and not reach the point that other people may say it is valuable enough. Counting completed tasks is less useful and may be deceptive. Count the actual products you have produced. Not single tasks that one eventually cannot compare to each other. Instead of putting focus on counting the number of advertising pieces sent (which you should count), you should focus greatly on counting the actual sales. Convert this idea to your organizations schema. - For how much work remains to be done, one shall not just count as robot what one has written in the computer, but rather look at the purpose of the work. You may write 100 tasks to reach the purpose, and when you reach the purpose you may have still 27 tasks pending. If you have reached the purpose, those tasks may be redundant. Think about it. Awarding oneself for some numbers in computer is meaningless. - How much time is left for major actions will be always in your mind. For smaller actions and mass of tasks that is something you can track with computer. - Estimating time for projects is difficult and never accurate, especially if you are given rather shorter periods of time for some reason. It is better focusing on purpose and getting purpose done. Many assignees may not understand the purpose of the task. I suggest special property PURPOSE to be clear what the task means and why it is done. As overdoing the task just because it is written misses the purpose easily. Let us say you wish to watch movie in cinema, and you first take list of 10 cinema's in the town with the purpose to call them all and find out which movies play. Then you start calling or visiting their websites, and at the 3rd cinema your friend in the room tells you should watch that great movie, and you make that decision, and it is just 30 minutes before the movie starts. Are you going to keep pushing to find out the remaining 7 cinemas' programs or you are moving now to watch the actual movie? Stress must be made that PURPOSE of the task is important and that people shall not dwell on something that is redundant. > * Each project is a headline with the status "PROJECT" > * Each project have the deadline defined by the school work deadline > * Each project have a complete description with every info needed to work > * Each project have one or many tasks (as sub headlines with a > * status) Sounds very good to me. > * Each task have a importance, time and effort estimation Each task has the important, but let's go back to purpose. You wish to complete the project, tasks can't be illogically or out of the order. Thus they have to be in the order. Importance is automatically there if the logical order of tasks is part of the structure. In order to paint a room you have to purchase paint brushes, paint in the town and bring it to the school. You can't just go to school first and paint without first bringing paint brushes. There is logical order involved in everything what human do or shall do. Importance is useful only when person misses to have the sense for logical order. > * Each task have its own deadline, distributed along the remaining > * time And what do you do if you miss the deadline? -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/