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Wed, 22 Jun 2022 19:17:23 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR03MB5455.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7c01:f3c4:11c6:4050]) by SJ0PR03MB5455.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7c01:f3c4:11c6:4050%9]) with mapi id 15.20.5353.022; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 19:17:23 +0000 From: David Masterson To: Juan Manuel =?utf-8?Q?Mac=C3=ADas?= Cc: orgmode Subject: Re: Org and Hyperbole References: <875ykvbffg.fsf@posteo.net> <87a6a5gf1p.fsf@posteo.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 12:17:20 -0700 In-Reply-To: <87a6a5gf1p.fsf@posteo.net> ("Juan Manuel =?utf-8?Q?Mac=C3=AD?= =?utf-8?Q?as=22's?= message of "Wed, 22 Jun 2022 10:37:06 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-TMN: [7xuwYL+TKZCZPnLqJ2bZJw4ok5IMMXB7qtdar2LGCR8YwDJkQ9Yg9cCAOVD//Ips] X-ClientProxiedBy: SJ0PR13CA0076.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:2c4::21) To SJ0PR03MB5455.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:27b::11) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <87czf0bj9b.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 2 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 89b501ae-b29d-4266-058f-08da5483d5d2 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: DM8PR03MB6245:EE_ X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1655926196; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=bbf9Va139LBxYgZfJ1Lax9GZH4O2AfCsrjBW269lbcU=; b=QEthriW0yOTL3cdQ2gMWrbj4VleO7LpFBmvtZZ/89z3o9uIzPQh3XsxZrChlOj7VdVD9vz Aux/QLiQ1KU9LINQ/uwpLoJeSNnvn9ic9fcqD9fgmaPiM+6o5SNhE5Z16k8t0pFPKQ/gsQ nG6lyyAjXeizTDHVFFqmAbAXpMA2r2tA0RCEcJcADxMNK1R1HMqS2ogOnuEXE6STM//ESN kvZbmDXZ9Ja29og+3KtR1Pa4g22ysnyZd3k/xQden+hgPyMhqoBl1doyjun4BkIjhuw6jY W17W9L7IRTbcuVpcGPx12tM9Qk/Dmh793DJ9Z82VyV03PdzkkWC/107/R9wUQQ== ARC-Seal: i=2; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1655926196; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; b=NnNAdQlZHyvQdKPGzVIz6BHh3uXQCSdaOKnLoOmFyrlQQfWclL+zhRdi5Yxc8IiTJYMmId G47FLcVNvoYTn7RvA8OXJ2QUI3lwYftQrG5WxF1aVVVsGV63Xehf6G1ZP86qxPUzaXhcQj W3950U2gscthtPuSQXDhcfj1GDO2JqsYNjsX0evP60820llw5RuO1LkJsXfqQtGOUvudec VQGpotks+3gAYK6Z8Fhy/bd2qAmNd25vVP0D1HdAB/zAVBLFW1AyvGF0SZ4prgE4YjzaCY Sqxz1ZFsFb3cJCjnUdwDzlta6LnaslVXVHJ05Ee4PzZ9r0+g/2L88kHaxIU6jg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=outlook.com header.s=selector1 header.b=EZEYxx1O; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1"); dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), DKIM not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 0.54 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=outlook.com header.s=selector1 header.b=EZEYxx1O; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1"); dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), DKIM not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6C5BF3F5CD X-Spam-Score: 0.54 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: 28wvYQm7TsWw Juan Manuel Mac=C3=ADas writes: > Hi David,=20 > > David Masterson writes: > >> I haven't touched Hyperbole in ...decades...? Even then, it was >> complicated and full-featured (but I still keep it in my .emacs file). >> My discussions with Bob Weiner were interesting at the time and I really >> wanted to make use of it. >> >> As you've discovered, it integrates a lot of what Org has in, perhaps, a >> tighter fashion (which makes it more complicated, but the pain might be >> useful). The Smart Keys and Buttons are very similar to Org. The >> outliner (KOutline) is more powerful than Org, but not integrated with >> export capabilities to other formats (I think there is a way of >> exporting an outline to Org). Something that Org does not have is >> browsing capabilities for Object Oriented languages. This is an add-on >> (for C++ ?) in Hyperbole (search for OO-Browser). Since I retired, I >> don't do much programming, so Org's project management has been more >> interesting to me. >> >> It's nice to see that it's actually still being developed by Bob. > > Thanks for all the interesting facts about hyperbole. I hadn't looked at > the package source code info yet, and didn't know that this is all the > work of one person. I also thought hyperbole was more recent... > > It certainly has some interesting stuff. In what way is KOutline more > powerful than Org? Do you think there is any useful feature of KOutline > that could be incorporated into Org? KOutline has a much larger set of commands for working with outlines. However, that's an example of complexity in that it's a lot to keep in your head. The permanent (hidden) ids make it possible to build (say) a personal Wiki of information where rearranging the outline doesn't mess up the links. > So far I've been able to find a couple of practical uses for this > package in my workflow. The whole window control system is very > powerful, although it would have been better if it had been a single > separate package, IMHO. I tended to look at EXWM, but didn't get too far. I may look at Hycontrol again... > Implicit links have a lot of potential. For example, I've managed to > define some buttons for LaTeX, which recognize LaTeX commands and > environments and lead to the local TeX live documentation or > tex.stackexchange.org. It's like giving a LaTeX document a sort of hover > help. This could also be done in Org, by defining some patterns as > implicit buttons to lead to Org info pages. Have you looked at Hydra? But Hyperbole's implicit links are better. --=20 David Masterson