Problems with iCalendar export of my Calendar

Problems with iCalendar export of my Calendar

[Georg C. F. Greve]

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Hi all,

I've been using Org Mode for a while, and as long as things stay in
Emacs, things work just fine. But I still have problems when trying to
share my information with others or other devices -- especially in terms
of Calendar entries.

Below I have attached a (real) example of my trip to FSCONS in Sweden in
Org mode format. In agenda view, I see the following:

Friday      7 December 2007
 example:         10:40...... Flight SK 602 Zurich to Copenhagen --[2007-12-07 Fri 12:25]
 example:         14:10...... Flight SK 438 Copenhagen to Gothenburg --[2007-12-07 Fri 14:55]
 example:         Gothenburg, Sweden --[2007-12-09 Sun]
 example:         FSCONS conference --[2007-12-08 Sat]
Saturday    8 December 2007
 example:         17:15...... Speech at closing ceremony 
Sunday      9 December 2007
 example:         15:30...... Flight SK 439 Gothenburg to Copenhagen --[2007-12-09 Sun 16:15]
 example:         17:40...... Flight SK 609 Copenhagen to Zurich --[2007-12-09 Sun 19:25]

Note how I am using the inactive tags to delimit periods, which makes
sure that things covering more than one day (e.g. being in a city, or a
conference) only show up on their first day with information on when
they'll end.

This is pretty much how I like it.

Now I want to share this with another application or device, and do an
export to iCalendar. The resulting file is attached below.

The following things are immediately visible:

 - The "Gothenburg, Sweden" entry contains the end in the description,
   but in fact has a wrong end date (DTEND;VALUE=DATE:20071208).

   I would prefer this to have the correct end date, and not list it in
   the description for iCalendar export. If I change the second date tag
   to an active one, the end date/time is correct.

 - The description for "Gothenburg, Sweden" contains the flight as
   description, which is not very helpful.

 - The accomodation, which might make an interesting piece of
   description for the Gothenburg, Sweden entry is entirely missing from
   the iCalendar.

With the possible exception of the problem with defining periods with
inactive end time stamps, they are not necessarily what one would call
bugs of Org Mode, but rather issues resulting from the way the file is
structured.

Unfortunately I was unable to find any guidance about how to do this,
and did not find the time yet to look at the source code in order to see
how the iCalendar export is getting its information.

The question at hand is: How to improve the structure of the file, and
can we put this into the documentation so users get an idea of the
canonical structure for calendars in Org Mode?

I am aware that putting a rather open question is always a bit more
difficult, but hope that we'll still manage to find a solution.

Suggestions and hints appreciated.

Regards,
Georg



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* Gothenburg, Sweden <2007-12-07 Fri>--[2007-12-09 Sun]
** Flight SK 602 Zurich to Copenhagen <2007-12-07 Fri 10:40>--[2007-12-07 Fri 12:25]
** Flight SK 438 Copenhagen to Gothenburg <2007-12-07 Fri 14:10>--[2007-12-07 Fri 14:55]
** Taxi waiting at airport arrival gate in Gothenburg
** FSCONS conference <2007-12-07 Fr>--[2007-12-08 Sat]
** Accomodation: Hotel Riverton
		Stora Badhusgatan 26
		411 21 Goteborg, Sverige
		Telefon	+46 31 750 10 00
		Fax	+46(31)7501001
** Speech at closing ceremony <2007-12-08 Sat 17:15>
** Flight SK 439 Gothenburg to Copenhagen <2007-12-09 Sun 15:30>--[2007-12-09 Sun 16:15]
** Flight SK 609 Copenhagen to Zurich <2007-12-09 Sun 17:40>--[2007-12-09 Sun 19:25]

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[-- Attachment #1.1.3: example.ics --]
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BEGIN:VCALENDAR
VERSION:2.0
X-WR-CALNAME:example
PRODID:-//Georg Greve//Emacs with Org-mode//EN
X-WR-TIMEZONE:CET
CALSCALE:GREGORIAN
BEGIN:VEVENT
UID: TS-a7j7qlk0tfe0@katana.lair
DTSTART;VALUE=DATE:20071207
DTEND;VALUE=DATE:20071208
SUMMARY:Gothenburg\, Sweden --[2007-12-09 Sun]
DESCRIPTION: ** Flight SK 602 Zurich to Copenhagen <2007-12-07 Fri 10:40>--[2007-12-07 Fri 12:25]\n** Flight SK 4
CATEGORIES:example
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
UID: TS-1rj7qlk0tfe0@katana.lair
DTSTART:20071207T104000
DTEND:20071207T124000
SUMMARY:Flight SK 602 Zurich to Copenhagen --[2007-12-07 Fri 12:25]
DESCRIPTION: \n
CATEGORIES:example
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
UID: TS-z8k7qlk0tfe0@katana.lair
DTSTART:20071207T141000
DTEND:20071207T161000
SUMMARY:Flight SK 438 Copenhagen to Gothenburg --[2007-12-07 Fri 14:55]
DESCRIPTION: \n
CATEGORIES:example
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
UID: TS-hqk7qlk0tfe0@katana.lair
DTSTART;VALUE=DATE:20071207
DTEND;VALUE=DATE:20071208
SUMMARY:FSCONS conference --[2007-12-08 Sat]
DESCRIPTION: \n
CATEGORIES:example
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
UID: TS-z7l7qlk0tfe0@katana.lair
DTSTART:20071208T171500
DTEND:20071208T191500
SUMMARY:Speech at closing ceremony 
DESCRIPTION: \n
CATEGORIES:example
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
UID: TS-1pl7qlk0tfe0@katana.lair
DTSTART:20071209T153000
DTEND:20071209T173000
SUMMARY:Flight SK 439 Gothenburg to Copenhagen --[2007-12-09 Sun 16:15]
DESCRIPTION: \n
CATEGORIES:example
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
UID: TS-y5m7qlk0tfe0@katana.lair
DTSTART:20071209T174000
DTEND:20071209T194000
SUMMARY:Flight SK 609 Copenhagen to Zurich --[2007-12-09 Sun 19:25]
DESCRIPTION: \n
CATEGORIES:example
END:VEVENT
END:VCALENDAR

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-- 
Georg C. F. Greve                                 <greve@fsfeurope.org>
Free Software Foundation Europe	                 (http://fsfeurope.org)
President                                      +41 43 500 03 66 ext 400

Join the Fellowship and protect your freedom!     (http://www.fsfe.org)

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R: Problems with iCalendar export of my Calendar

[Giovanni Ridolfi]

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--- Mar 11/11/08, Georg C. F. Greve <greve@fsfeurope.org> ha scritto:
> I still have problems when trying to
> share my information with others or other devices --
> especially in terms  of Calendar entries.
> 
> Below I have attached a (real) example of my trip to FSCONS
> in Sweden in Org mode format. In agenda view, I see the 
> following:
> 
> Friday      7 December 2007
>  example:         10:40...... Flight SK 602 Zurich to
> Copenhagen --[2007-12-07 Fri 12:25]
>  example:         14:10...... Flight SK 438 Copenhagen to
> Gothenburg --[2007-12-07 Fri 14:55]
>  example:         Gothenburg, Sweden --[2007-12-09 Sun]
>  example:         FSCONS conference --[2007-12-08 Sat]
> Saturday    8 December 2007
>  example:         17:15...... Speech at closing ceremony 
> Sunday      9 December 2007
>  example:         15:30...... Flight SK 439 Gothenburg to
> Copenhagen --[2007-12-09 Sun 16:15]
>  example:         17:40...... Flight SK 609 Copenhagen to
> Zurich --[2007-12-09 Sun 19:25]
> 
> Note how I am using the inactive tags to delimit periods,
> which makes sure that things covering more than one 
> day (e.g. being in a city, or a conference) only show up 
> on their first day with information on when they'll end.
> This is pretty much how I like it.

Well, don't you like the "default" org-mode:
with the number of days (1/3)  ?
[abba.org is the name of the file where I copied your setup]

----------------------------Agenda view---------------------
Week-agenda (W49):
Monday      3 December 2007 W49
Tuesday     4 December 2007
Wednesday   5 December 2007
Thursday    6 December 2007
Friday      7 December 2007
  abba:       10:40-12:25 Flight SK 602 Zurich to Copenhagen 
  abba:       14:10-14:55 Flight SK 438 Copenhagen to Gothenburg 
  abba:       (1/3):  Gothenburg, Sweden 
            ^^^^^^^^^

  abba:       (1/2):  FSCONS conference
Saturday    8 December 2007
  abba:       17:15...... Speech at closing ceremony
  abba:       (2/3):  Gothenburg, Sweden 
  abba:       (2/2):  FSCONS conference
Sunday      9 December 2007
  abba:       15:30-16:15 Flight SK 439 Gothenburg to Copenhagen
  abba:       17:40-19:25 Flight SK 609 Copenhagen to Zurich
  abba:       (3/3):  Gothenburg, Sweden 
-------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Now I want to share this with another application or
> device, and do an export to iCalendar. 
[...]
> they are not necessarily what one would call bugs of 
> Org Mode, but rather issues resulting from the way
> the file is structured.
[...]
> The question at hand is: How to improve the structure of
> the file,

I think your org file should be structured better
exploiting the :PROPERTIES: 

-------------- abba.org.-----------
    -*- mode: org; -*-
* Gothenburg, Sweden 
:PROPERTIES:
CLOCK:   <2007-12-07 Fri>--<2007-12-09 Sun>
:DESCRIPTION:  FSCONS conference & trip
:END:
** Flight SK 602 Zurich to Copenhagen 
CLOCK: <2007-12-07 Fri 10:40>--<2007-12-07 Fri 12:25>
** Flight SK 438 Copenhagen to Gothenburg 
CLOCK: <2007-12-07 Fri 14:10>--<2007-12-07 Fri 14:55>
** Taxi waiting at airport arrival gate in Gothenburg
** FSCONS conference
:PROPERTIES:
CLOCK: <2007-12-07 Fr>--<2007-12-08 Sat>
:LOCATION: Accomodation: Hotel Riverton  Stora Badhusgatan 26   411 21 Goteborg, Sverige  Telefon    +46 31 750 10 00   Fax    +46(31)7501001
:END:
** Speech at closing ceremony
CLOCK:  <2007-12-08 Sat 17:15>
** Flight SK 439 Gothenburg to Copenhagen
CLOCK:  <2007-12-09 Sun 15:30>--<2007-12-09 Sun 16:15>
** Flight SK 609 Copenhagen to Zurich
CLOCK:  <2007-12-09 Sun 17:40>--<2007-12-09 Sun 19:25>
---------------------------

this file produces a correct iCal output (uploaded correctly 
to WebCal) (see attached file)

> can we put this into the documentation so users get an 
> idea of the canonical structure for calendars in Org Mode?

The documentation:

12.9 iCalendar export

appears quite clear to me:

"The export will honor SUMMARY, DESCRIPTION and LOCATION 

   properties 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

if the selected entries have them.  If not, the summary will be derived
from the headline, and the description from the body (limited to
`org-icalendar-include-body' characters). "


cheers,
Giovanni


      Unisciti alla community di Io fotografo e video, il nuovo corso di fotografia di Gazzetta dello sport:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/iofotografoevideo

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BEGIN:VCALENDAR
VERSION:2.0
X-WR-CALNAME:abba
PRODID:-//Giovanni Ridolfi//Emacs with Org-mode//EN
X-WR-TIMEZONE:+0100
CALSCALE:GREGORIAN
BEGIN:VEVENT
UID: TS-0uxhsjq0tfe0@cencerbo.it
DTSTART;VALUE=DATE:20071207
DTEND;VALUE=DATE:20071210
SUMMARY:Gothenburg\, Sweden
DESCRIPTION: FSCONS conference & trip
CATEGORIES:abba
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
UID: TS-0uxhsjq0tfe0@cencerbo.it
DTSTART:20071207T104000
DTEND:20071207T122500
SUMMARY:Flight SK 602 Zurich to Copenhagen
CATEGORIES:abba
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
UID: TS-0uxhsjq0tfe0@cencerbo.it
DTSTART:20071207T141000
DTEND:20071207T145500
SUMMARY:Flight SK 438 Copenhagen to Gothenburg
CATEGORIES:abba
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
UID: TS-ge50tjq0tfe0@cencerbo.it
DTSTART;VALUE=DATE:20071207
DTEND;VALUE=DATE:20071209
SUMMARY:FSCONS conference
LOCATION: Accomodation: Hotel Riverton  Stora Badhusgatan 26   411 21 Goteborg\, Sverige  Telefon    +46 31 750 10 00   Fax    +46(31)7501001
CATEGORIES:abba
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
UID: TS-ge50tjq0tfe0@cencerbo.it
DTSTART:20071208T171500
DTEND:20071208T191500
SUMMARY:Speech at closing ceremony
CATEGORIES:abba
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
UID: TS-ge50tjq0tfe0@cencerbo.it
DTSTART:20071209T153000
DTEND:20071209T161500
SUMMARY:Flight SK 439 Gothenburg to Copenhagen
CATEGORIES:abba
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
UID: TS-ge50tjq0tfe0@cencerbo.it
DTSTART:20071209T174000
DTEND:20071209T192500
SUMMARY:Flight SK 609 Copenhagen to Zurich
CATEGORIES:abba
END:VEVENT
END:VCALENDAR

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Re: R: Problems with iCalendar export of my Calendar

[Georg C. F. Greve]

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Hi Giovanni,

On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:38:28 +0000 (GMT)
Giovanni Ridolfi <giovanni.ridolfi@yahoo.it> wrote: 

 gr> Well, don't you like the "default" org-mode:
 gr> with the number of days (1/3)  ?

No, I think that is very annoying.

The only numbers I want to see there are times.

What I would want is something like this:

 Friday      7 December 2007
  abba:                   Gothenburg, Sweden 
  abba:       10:40-12:25 Flight SK 602 Zurich to Copenhagen 
  abba:       14:10-14:55 Flight SK 438 Copenhagen to Gothenburg 

where the "all day" or "time unspecific" events are listed on top
without any time, but properly indented, followed by all the timed
events in chronological order.


 gr> I think your org file should be structured better exploiting the
 gr> :PROPERTIES:

Thanks for the pointer.

Indeed it seems that properties can solve a significant amount of the
issues, although I had been avoiding them so far as I find them to
decrease the usability of the file.

When editing a calendar, it is very helpful to see the times and places
at first sight so you know that you don't have overlap or gaps.

If times are hidden in properties, that is much harder.

Also they are fairly cumbersome to edit.


 gr> appears quite clear to me: "The export will honor SUMMARY,
 gr> DESCRIPTION and LOCATION properties if the selected entries have
 gr> them.  If not, the summary will be derived from the headline, and
 gr> the description from the body (limited to
 gr> `org-icalendar-include-body' characters). "

That last part is interesting. It had indeed not occured to me that I
could set org-icalendar-include-body to 0 in order to avoid bogus
descriptions.

Regards,
Georg

-- 
Georg C. F. Greve                                 <greve@fsfeurope.org>
Free Software Foundation Europe	                 (http://fsfeurope.org)
President                                      +41 43 500 03 66 ext 400

Join the Fellowship and protect your freedom!     (http://www.fsfe.org)

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Re: R: Problems with iCalendar export of my Calendar

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi Georg

On Nov 11, 2008, at 7:19 PM, Georg C. F. Greve wrote:

> Hi Giovanni,
>
> On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:38:28 +0000 (GMT)
> Giovanni Ridolfi <giovanni.ridolfi@yahoo.it> wrote:
>
> gr> Well, don't you like the "default" org-mode:
> gr> with the number of days (1/3)  ?
>
> No, I think that is very annoying.


A time-range with first an active stamp and then an
inactive meaning has no defined purpose in Org, and
I cannot say what will happen in what circumstances.

>
>
> The only numbers I want to see there are times.
>
> What I would want is something like this:
>
> Friday      7 December 2007
>  abba:                   Gothenburg, Sweden
>  abba:       10:40-12:25 Flight SK 602 Zurich to Copenhagen
>  abba:       14:10-14:55 Flight SK 438 Copenhagen to Gothenburg
>
> where the "all day" or "time unspecific" events are listed on top
> without any time, but properly indented, followed by all the timed
> events in chronological order.

You can get the un timed items first by configuring the variable
`org-sort-agenda-notime-is-late'.  That will not change the  
indentation though.
Could be fixed, of course, that is a minor problem.

>
> gr> I think your org file should be structured better exploiting the
> gr> :PROPERTIES:
>
> Thanks for the pointer.
>
> Indeed it seems that properties can solve a significant amount of the
> issues, although I had been avoiding them so far as I find them to
> decrease the usability of the file.


One thing you can do is to set

#+DRAWERS: dummy

so that properties will not act as drawers anymore, so
they will always be open and visible.

> When editing a calendar, it is very helpful to see the times and  
> places
> at first sight so you know that you don't have overlap or gaps.
>
> If times are hidden in properties, that is much harder.
>
> Also they are fairly cumbersome to edit.

Properties?  or dates?  I happen to beliefe that there is
no better input for times than those in Org.


HTH

- Carsten

> gr> appears quite clear to me: "The export will honor SUMMARY,
> gr> DESCRIPTION and LOCATION properties if the selected entries have
> gr> them.  If not, the summary will be derived from the headline, and
> gr> the description from the body (limited to
> gr> `org-icalendar-include-body' characters). "
>
> That last part is interesting. It had indeed not occured to me that I
> could set org-icalendar-include-body to 0 in order to avoid bogus
> descriptions.
>
> Regards,
> Georg
>
> -- 
> Georg C. F. Greve                                  
> <greve@fsfeurope.org>
> Free Software Foundation Europe	                 (http:// 
> fsfeurope.org)
> President                                      +41 43 500 03 66 ext  
> 400
>
> Join the Fellowship and protect your freedom!     (http:// 
> www.fsfe.org)
> _______________________________________________
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Re: R: Problems with iCalendar export of my Calendar

[Georg C. F. Greve]

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Hi Carsten,

On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:31:34 +0100
Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> wrote: 

 cd> A time-range with first an active stamp and then an inactive
 cd> meaning has no defined purpose in Org, and I cannot say what will
 cd> happen in what circumstances.

Understood.

Is there any reason why it has no defined purpose?

"Only display it on the first day and be silent on the others" seems
like an appropriate interpretation of the combination.


 cd> You can get the un timed items first by configuring the variable
 cd> `org-sort-agenda-notime-is-late'.

Thanks a lot - looks better already.


 cd> That will not change the indentation though.  Could be fixed, of
 cd> course, that is a minor problem.

If it is not too big an issue, I'd very much appreciate the option to
have them displayed with proper indentation and without the (X/Y).


 cd> One thing you can do is to set
 cd> #+DRAWERS: dummy
 cd> so that properties will not act as drawers anymore, so
 cd> they will always be open and visible.

Thanks. That is a bit better.


 cd> Properties?  or dates?  I happen to beliefe that there is no better
 cd> input for times than those in Org.

And I happen to agree with you. One of the things in which or Org is
absolutely superior is entering or changing dates.

It is the properties that I generally found a bit cumbersome to deal
with, but maybe I'll just solve this with a small LISP function to take
care of the inserting of events, including property drawers and so on.

Regards,
Georg

-- 
Georg C. F. Greve                                 <greve@fsfeurope.org>
Free Software Foundation Europe	                 (http://fsfeurope.org)
President                                      +41 43 500 03 66 ext 400

Join the Fellowship and protect your freedom!     (http://www.fsfe.org)

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RFC 2445 compliance of org mode (was: Re: R: Problems with iCalendar export of my Calendar)

[Georg C. F. Greve]

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Hi Carsten,

I have played with things some more, and have now managed to restructure
my Calendar file in a way that it allows me to export to iCalendar in a
good and meaningful way.

Trying to import the results I noticed something that looks like an
error in the way Org Mode implements RFC2445 (iCalendar) [1]. Section
4.1.1 says that the COMMA character is a special character similar to
SEMICOLON and COLON.

Whenever these characters are used in the value of any property, the
character MUST be placed in quoted text. Section 4.2 says that

   Property parameter values that contain the COLON (US-ASCII decimal
   58), SEMICOLON (US-ASCII decimal 59) or COMMA (US-ASCII decimal 44)
   character separators MUST be specified as quoted-string text values.
   Property parameter values MUST NOT contain the DOUBLE-QUOTE (US-ASCII
   decimal 22) character. The DOUBLE-QUOTE (US-ASCII decimal 22)
   character is used as a delimiter for parameter values that contain
   restricted characters or URI text.

This would appear to mean that

 a) Any use of " is illegal in iCalendar, and should be replaced by ''
    wherever that character occurs.

 b) All values that contain COLON, SEMICOLON or COMMA should be quoted
    inside DOUBLE-QUOTES

But Org Mode currently escapes the COMMA with a BACKSLASH, which is
understood by some, but not all applications. E.g. on my mobile phone,
the BACKSLASH is taken literal, so things look fairly ugly.

Regards,
Georg


[1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2445/

-- 
Georg C. F. Greve                                 <greve@fsfeurope.org>
Free Software Foundation Europe	                 (http://fsfeurope.org)
President                                      +41 43 500 03 66 ext 400

Join the Fellowship and protect your freedom!     (http://www.fsfe.org)

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