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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" , Bruce D'Arcus Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.87 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=earth2adam-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=ONUtVoFJ; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 08A96E017 X-Spam-Score: -0.87 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: GiPlJRXWMgGh --Apple-Mail=_CF3E98B8-EC4A-4DCA-A734-85D7936759A9 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="07C09f8dF84D75aB_a84B73fE6056a51Ff9_0EfC4E37a43864b1Dec0Adf03" --07C09f8dF84D75aB_a84B73fE6056a51Ff9_0EfC4E37a43864b1Dec0Adf03 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks John! I think you have just given me my next homework assignment for "Adam's list= of things to noodle around with in eLisp" :) Adam > On 21 Feb 2021, at 17:40, John Kitchin wrote: > > It seems like some ideas are getting mixed up in your description. A cite= link in org-ref is related to a bibtex entry in a bibtex file, not to an or= g heading in an org-file. In other words in your example, I would expecta bi= btex entry with the key bradley1973es to exist in one of the default bibliog= raphy files you use (or in the one you define in a bibliography link). The n= otes are just for your purposes. > > the headings/links in your notes file will not show up in any completion = backend in org-ref for citation selection, as only the bibtex entries are us= ed to construct those. > > If you are looking for a way to select one of those headings from your n= otes, and then insert the appropriate link, you would have to use something = different than org-ref. there is not presently a way to map an annotated cit= e link to the specific note. I am not even sure you can write a function tha= t does that, as the functions only take a key for looking up the note file, = and not the description too. It certainly is possible to write a new functio= n that would work on the link at point to do that, and to call it interactiv= ely, or add it as an action though. You would still get the key to open the = note file, and then use the link description if it exists to somehow search = forward for the relevant heading or text, failing gracefully if you, for exa= mple, make a cite to a page you did not make a note on. > > When it comes time to authoring a paper, I think the workflow is you woul= d have to open the notes you made, find the section you want to use in your = paper, and copy the link you put in your notes to your new document. There a= re some variations you might consider, but none of them would really be inte= grated into the org-ref completion mechanisms that are generated from the bi= btex entries. > > For example you might store the link or parts in a property like this: > > * The Accelerator-Multiplier Model > :PROPERTIES: > :key: bradley1973es > :page: p200 > :cite: [[cite:bradley1973es][p200]] > :END: > > > and then write a small function you use interactively to copy it, e.g. > > #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp > (defun get-link () > (interactive) > (kill-new (org-entry-get (point) "cite"))) > #+END_SRC > > and you might bind that to a key if you use it a lot. Alternatively you m= ight put the key in file-level property, and only store the page, and use pr= operty inheritance, to build the link. There are a lot of options to choose = from. But, simply copying and pasting a link might also be the simplest. > > It might be possible to use the org-store/insert-link machinery for this = too, but I have found that to be trickier than I thought it should be in the= past. > > John > > ----------------------------------- > Professor John Kitchin > Doherty Hall A207F > Department of Chemical Engineering > Carnegie Mellon University > Pittsburgh, PA 15213 > 412-268-7803 > @johnkitchin > http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu > > > > On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 12:13 PM Adam Sneller > wrote: > Hi Bruce/John, > > Thanks for getting back to me. So I guess your notes file would look some= thing like this? > > > #+TITLE: Bradley, J. (1973): Essential Mathematics For Economists > > * Dynamic models: the consumption function > [[cite:bradley1973es][p164]] > > * Changes in Capital Stock > [[cite:bradley1973es][p188]] > > * The Accelerator-Multiplier Model > [[cite:bradley1973es][p200]] > > > So when when it comes time to author your paper, if you run org-store-lin= k on any of these, the description gets stripped off the link, so that only = cite:bradley1973es is stored (which obviously defeats the purpose). And if y= ou copy the link over by hand, it maps back to the document bradley197es.org= (not the actual note). > > Am I missing anything? > > Adam > >> On 21 Feb 2021, at 12:21, Bruce D'Arcus > wrote: >> >> On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 10:31 PM Adam Sneller > wrote: >> >>> I currently use org-ref and helm-bibtex to manage my database of academ= ic sources, with one notes file per source. A lot of my sources are books. S= o note typically grow over time, as I add multiple headers (each pertaining = to a chapter or topic/note taken from that source). >>> >>> But now I want to produce a citation that references the page numbers w= here I captured that note... >>> >>> What is the recommended way to handle this? Are you breaking notes into= individual files, each with their own @inbook citation? >> >> Generally speaking, referencing page numbers and sections of a cited >> source is not handled by dedicated citations, but rather by >> annotations on the containing citation (book etc.). >> >> So in the pandoc syntax, for example, [@book, p23]. >> >> I do the same with notes, and just included the specific citation with >> the note if I need to maintain the specific source page. >> >> Bruce >> > --07C09f8dF84D75aB_a84B73fE6056a51Ff9_0EfC4E37a43864b1Dec0Adf03 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Thanks John!

I think you have just given me my next homework assignment for "Adam's= list of things to noodle around with in eLisp" :)

Adam

On 21 Feb 2021, at 17:40, John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote= :

It seems like some ideas are getting mixed up in your descrip= tion. A cite link in org-ref is related to a bibtex entry in a bibtex file, = not to an org heading in an org-file. In other words in your example, I woul= d expecta bibtex entry with the key bradley1973es to exist in one of the def= ault bibliography files you use (or in the one you define in a bibliography = link). The notes are just for your purposes.

th= e headings/links in your notes file will not show up in any completion backe= nd in org-ref for citation selection, as only the bibtex entries are used to= construct those.

 If you are looking for= a way to select one of those headings from your notes, and then insert the = appropriate link, you would have to use something different than org-ref. th= ere is not presently a way to map an annotated cite link to the specific not= e. I am not even sure you can write a function that does that, as the functi= ons only take a key for looking up the note file, and not the description to= o. It certainly is possible to write a new function that would work on the l= ink at point to do that, and to call it interactively, or add it as an actio= n though. You would still get the key to open the note file, and then use th= e link description if it exists to somehow search forward for the relevant h= eading or text, failing gracefully if you, for example, make a cite to a pag= e you did not make a note on. 

When it comes time to authoring a paper, I think= the workflow is you would have to open the notes you made, find the section= you want to use in your paper, and copy the link you put in your notes to y= our new document. There are some variations you might consider, but none of = them would really be integrated into the org-ref completion mechanisms that = are generated from the bibtex entries.

<= /div>
For example you  might store the link or parts in = a property like this:

* The Accelerator-Multiplier Model
  :PROPERTIES:  :key:      bradley1973es
&n= bsp; :page:     p200
  :cite: [[cite:bradley197= 3es][p200]]
  :END:


and then = write a small function you use interactively to copy it, e.g.

#+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
(defun get-link ()
  (interactive)
&n= bsp; (kill-new (org-entry-get (point) "cite")))
#+END_SRC

and you= might bind that to a key if you use it a lot. Alternatively you might put t= he key in file-level property, and only store the page, and use property inh= eritance, to build the link. There are a lot of options to choose from. But,= simply copying and pasting a link might also be the simplest.

It might be possible to use the= org-store/insert-link machinery for this too, but I have found that to be t= rickier than I thought it should be in the past.

John

-----= ------------------------------
Professor John Kitchin Doherty Hall A207F
Department of Chemical Engineer= ing
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15= 213
412-268-7803
@johnkitchin=
http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu


<= br class=3D"">
On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 12:13 PM Adam Sneller <adam@earth2adam.com> wrote:
=
Hi Bruce/John,

Thanks for getting = back to me. So I guess your notes file would look something like this?
=


#+TITLE: Bradley, J. (1973): Essential Mathema= tics For Economists

* Dynamic models: the consumption function
[[cite:bra= dley1973es][p164]]

* Changes in Capital Stock
[[cite:bradley1973es][p188]= ]

* The Accelerato= r-Multiplier Model
[[cite:bradley1973es][p200]]


So when when it comes time to author your paper, if you ru= n org-store-link on any of these, the description gets stripped off the link= , so that only cite:bradley1973es is stored (which obviously defeats the pur= pose). And if you copy the link over by hand, it maps back to the document <= a href=3D"http://bradley197es.org/" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">bradley197e= s.org (not the actual note).

<= div class=3D"">Am I missing anything?

Adam

On 21 = Feb 2021, at 12:21, Bruce D'Arcus <bdarcus@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 10:31 PM Adam = Sneller <adam.sneller@ms2.digital> wrote:

I currently use org-ref and helm-bibt= ex to manage my database of academic sources, with one notes file per source= . A lot of my sources are books. So note typically grow over time, as I add = multiple headers (each pertaining to a chapter or topic/note taken from that= source).

But now I want to produce a citation = that references the page numbers where I captured that note...

What is the recommended way to handle this? Are you breaking= notes into individual files, each with their own @inbook citation?

Generally speaking, referencing page numbe= rs and sections of a cited
source is not handled by dedicated = citations, but rather by
annotations on the containing citatio= n (book etc.).

So in the pandoc syntax, for exa= mple, [@book, p23].

I do the same with notes, a= nd just included the specific citation with
the note if I need= to maintain the specific source page.

Bruce


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