From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id iAM9GYY1N2KiIwEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 15:09:10 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id UOquFoY1N2JhJQEA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 15:09:10 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 064171ACAB for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 15:09:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:34090 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nVwF2-0007Yw-QQ for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 10:09:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45700) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nVwEX-0007Yo-9R for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 10:08:37 -0400 Received: from [2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31] (port=36472 helo=mail-io1-xd31.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nVwEU-0000ah-QV for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 10:08:36 -0400 Received: by mail-io1-xd31.google.com with SMTP id b16so14238120ioz.3 for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 07:08:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=/z5sPNOyMSCPOY+lM+evAifFmtFrprlPahMs0+7DNLU=; b=TyVvwD1n57QUcLslmb915g9XDe+uNzROmTjaICLK/tnjvhhMFu3kZminsIXGn8hS0Y 0HOGdY723feCGs98IbeQyVjPBnnCsFUXkL+UR+oRriJjeUHssAtEpSu3rS2KUu6LtcFj rGvcnXlsY/xTf4jw6Yr2BTkLMbu3s37D2oNXOWOwC/2YyvEsQW+qGXL5iTAXlDtV9iIy cwtum3ZzJYblN54u1P9CLrgQkXd5V+FOU8amdyKYuAFlomvyfvTngDaxUocrju0P4+NC miFgO9cHj/HuQrh+uLG9SaMjJi934VFBN5PVpr9SjwcmEqiCkAHZJWxmYRY7HPl9bXkl RoAA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/z5sPNOyMSCPOY+lM+evAifFmtFrprlPahMs0+7DNLU=; b=zP0jLS5LTlJvrVVGSFI3yTwSIsrV52ustI6LZaBAXFBJiZy5ELted8Ew7VWBoy0hKg 7BZW/Z0XzYpgXj3BY0dE5XmOl49HExqAjz2FKfcCX+HdMLFbFFM2eRC3cuAYWUW8eP6V KcH0Kc0XOr+0nsoO62kVfuvhYW55+HNfUUr8fLfUqgZ5ilGpbHBdpTbpSLEXym79TC7+ hLJYAaEFE7/4EMDgDRAMyRhVT2ufvv3ht7VWhtRex/AMOIIDe2RJ1dhxZA0JhdxfhZgn DcLO+jRcbo8uNc1BfdEw0RjXohwf9dWzgm9dbDhT72+wVEUJJnMychfMtXexHxmFnoe6 Uu4w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531XyC15Mx4nnThgXNgEhzK4sGsanuRkpa0/xeSuyFZOajmt4LA5 hQIXYaC9RRhT8I9UTAMl1EA+mciV7HDnxNnYxvOLmQUwixU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzjc+1p3flXhM/5QSJ1X0fyfCvJWX+QvT9U84+bKy7MLbT57kP69zIKWYCtdO6n7FaPOeVbQjfaTIMMzpSo9ZI= X-Received: by 2002:a02:cb0d:0:b0:321:4041:f680 with SMTP id j13-20020a02cb0d000000b003214041f680mr462095jap.162.1647785313259; Sun, 20 Mar 2022 07:08:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87wngosqvm.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> In-Reply-To: <87wngosqvm.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> From: Vikas Rawal Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 19:38:21 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Re: citations: org-cite vs org-ref 3.0 To: Nicolas Goaziou Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000043540c05daa6eacb" X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31; envelope-from=vikasrawal@gmail.com; helo=mail-io1-xd31.google.com X-Spam_score_int: 12 X-Spam_score: 1.2 X-Spam_bar: + X-Spam_report: (1.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.659, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: org-mode mailing list Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1647785350; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=/z5sPNOyMSCPOY+lM+evAifFmtFrprlPahMs0+7DNLU=; b=j6UcPRyI/PP4ZZCNFv9v+u42zi/NzRmP7/GqueoiZJADlSWimx6zbfCCzBo1rhFn85/E3d ybIi1bb+2INfWemEq3uJBpdXAHsIvInLoPNL45GXZOJFSr8WDEqrqgbu1WAmWfXEx+GM9W 5ghCqzqRSijYo6V2kqBTzqDupovm+1LLhSDFNGQbxeQkykozIiXLxin59EDDn4gcwGWWW3 JJfLPGFI3utBm0PhjwWYBjFMUi/oLqoZ0kS08Lb8SQlsTaJ5JUFIcjP8vIo87mk4YCHtO5 2IftRHnxV40nXszJ8Sk1Oh9+uxjmTtP3SDyoVjsR3Clhfi9l4pvno8ZKkRnptA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1647785350; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Aoyovlsmo8L4b3ZQ3iwr1j1mCaF4gC1X6NuSc0p89PoSm2ZIii9hJ0EzGwRS7rBx8zHqfW pgNDpbYfiO2BYfxq/wokDsSKsCQaDW50A1GZINqCCkn8w3BSJPfGUAqKoDwI7T82PBtiwC abK2kMUCBWCqwjTJqOur042KEbwcx5tKapvVTgExc50XQy+12TtOCTkBSc4Q9xJZVrGMNc GkDv5HuO8j5qpVYZ9C1YDaX5VCOMXAO4z2MJ7gNrs/liXLS52BFcE6dXDV0gb7Re1hmZJz aHz3XFuYgaKujTJfyq+DiOvOLQt+LGw97b9fRodMKpyCM2GBNaYfdpdvkQBokw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=TyVvwD1n; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -7.63 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=TyVvwD1n; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 064171ACAB X-Spam-Score: -7.63 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: ++ph4XzpIjta --00000000000043540c05daa6eacb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > What is the general view of the community about this? > > I don't know about the general view of the community, but, as a data > point, I find it very sad. > Exactly how I feel. Particularly so because org-cite was indeed inspired from org-ref and all the great work John has done on this over the years. I do not see any substantive discussion of the limitations that John has pointed out with org-cite in the archives of the mailing list. We should have a conversation about those. If I understand correctly, the main limitation according to him is that org-cite does not handle cross-references. Is that the only problem? What do others think about it? Do we want the citation system to be able to handle cross-references? If not, do we need a separate system that handles cross-references beyond what is available in org-mode already? Can that system not be created in a manner that would not break the org-cite syntax? I think we should have a conversation and collectively think of what is the best way forward. Vikas --00000000000043540c05daa6eacb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> What is the general view of the community about thi= s?

I don't know about the general view of the community, but, as a data point, I find it very sad.

Exactly how = I feel. Particularly so because org-cite was indeed inspired from org-ref a= nd all the great work John has done on this over the years. I do not see an= y substantive discussion of the limitations that John has pointed out with = org-cite in the archives of the mailing list. We should have a conversation= about those.

If I understand correctly, the main = limitation according to him is that org-cite does not handle cross-referenc= es. Is that the only problem? What do others think about it? Do we want the= citation system to be able to handle cross-references? If not, do we need = a separate system that handles cross-references beyond what is available in= org-mode already? Can that system not be created in a manner that would no= t break the org-cite syntax?

I think we should hav= e a conversation and collectively think of what is the best way forward.

Vikas
--00000000000043540c05daa6eacb--