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Sun, 13 Aug 2023 17:57:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a9a:7ac4:0:b0:270:13b:14c4 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 17:57:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87a5uvl3me.fsf@localhost> References: <87o7omg4ie.fsf@alphaville.usersys.redhat.com> <87pm91ngb8.fsf@localhost> <87jzz8f3re.fsf@alphaville.usersys.redhat.com> <87mt43agk6.fsf@localhost> <874jq8ohbr.fsf@localhost> <87bkfip3mo.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0odrkbp.fsf@localhost> <875y5pvf04.fsf@bzg.fr> <87bkfdud55.fsf@localhost> <87cyzswhqn.fsf@bzg.fr> <87a5uvl3me.fsf@localhost> From: Samuel Wales Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 17:57:12 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading? To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: Bastien Guerry , Max Nikulin , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::135; envelope-from=samologist@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x135.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Spam-Score: -5.57 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B0C3559003 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.57 X-TUID: Z2TpEUuIKrgJ unable to do much of a search atm. but i recall 3-4 org vars that used to say so in their docstrings but didn't seem to need to be to me at the time. perhaps they have been fixed or i was mistaken. regexp components docstring in bugfix still say reload or restart. biut mayube that is obsolete. i found possible examples in appt and ediff bot those are not org. so perhaps this is a case where the problem no longer exists? 8if so, then never mind that comment about guideline for not requiring setting before org where possible. perhaps these are unavoidable. bugfix .el g set *.el|g before|g load org-fold-core.el:Important: This variable must be set before loading Org." org-keys.el:Needs to be set before Org is loaded. org-list.el:This variable needs to be set before org.el is loaded. If you org-list.el:This variable needs to be set before org.el is loaded. If you org-persist.el:This variable must be set before loading org-persist library.") org.el:This variable needs to be set before org.el is loaded. If you org.el:This variable needs to be set before org.el is loaded, and you need to On 8/13/23, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > Samuel Wales writes: > >> 3. >> >> istr loading org-id is or was what enables org-ids? i'd rather have >> org-id work by default. OR maybe require activating. > > org-id is mostly fine, except that it (1) adds a new link type. (2) adds > a hook that saves ids before exiting Emacs. > In general, it is not too different in its design to other link type > providers. The only difference is better support in other Org core > libraries, but it only plays when a user customized org-id to take > preference over other built-in link types - not a problem for users who > do not use org-id. > >> 4. >> >> idk if related, but some settings in org must be done before loading. >> i'd want a guideline in which, where possible, settings can be done >> after loading. this is because the user might need to go through >> contortions in .emacs. a user can do with-eval-after-load, but >> with-eval-before-load sounds radically grotesque. > > Please, list the settings you have in mind. Some things, like > configuring Org syntax, must be loaded before Org because we have no > other way around. > > -- > Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, > Org mode contributor, > Learn more about Org mode at . > Support Org development at , > or support my work at > -- The Kafka Pandemic A blog about science, health, human rights, and misopathy: https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com