ox-taskjuggler on MELPA useful despite org-plus-contrib

ox-taskjuggler on MELPA useful despite org-plus-contrib

[Simon Guest]

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Well, I see now that org-plus-contrib has its issues.  Specifically I am
hitting the same issue as reported here, which I see has been a problem for
nearly 2 years.
https://github.com/purcell/emacs.d/issues/297

Therefore, unless I hear another idea or an objection here, I intend to
proceed with getting ox-taskjuggler in isolation onto MELPA, unless its
author and/or maintainer would prefer not.

cheers,
Simon

>
> On 5/08/2017 10:51 PM, "Adam Porter" <adam@alphapapa.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Actually all you need to do is install the org-plus-contrib package from
>> ELPA, which includes contrib.  Then you'll get the latest release of
>> Org, too.  ;)
>>
>>
>>

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Re: ox-taskjuggler on MELPA useful despite org-plus-contrib

[Simon Guest]

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Well, almost as soon as I started on that, I see some issues around mixing
old/new org-mode functionality, so this seems like a not-so-good idea after
all.

In particular, ox-taskjuggler is using the very new org-duration library.

I'll think of another approach, not using MELPA.  At least until the
underlying problem with org-plus-contrib is resolved.

cheers,
Simon

On 8 August 2017 at 10:57, Simon Guest <sjg@cantab.net> wrote:

> Well, I see now that org-plus-contrib has its issues.  Specifically I am
> hitting the same issue as reported here, which I see has been a problem for
> nearly 2 years.
> https://github.com/purcell/emacs.d/issues/297
>
> Therefore, unless I hear another idea or an objection here, I intend to
> proceed with getting ox-taskjuggler in isolation onto MELPA, unless its
> author and/or maintainer would prefer not.
>
> cheers,
> Simon
>
>>
>> On 5/08/2017 10:51 PM, "Adam Porter" <adam@alphapapa.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Actually all you need to do is install the org-plus-contrib package from
>>> ELPA, which includes contrib.  Then you'll get the latest release of
>>> Org, too.  ;)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

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Re: ox-taskjuggler on MELPA useful despite org-plus-contrib

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Simon Guest <sjg@cantab.net> writes:

> Well, almost as soon as I started on that, I see some issues around mixing
> old/new org-mode functionality, so this seems like a not-so-good idea after
> all.
>
> In particular, ox-taskjuggler is using the very new org-duration
> library.

You could use "ox-taskjuggler" from maint.

> I'll think of another approach, not using MELPA.

I suggest to use GNU ELPA instead.

> At least until the underlying problem with org-plus-contrib is
> resolved.

What exactly is the underlying problem?

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: ox-taskjuggler on MELPA useful despite org-plus-contrib

[Adam Porter]

Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:

>> At least until the underlying problem with org-plus-contrib is
>> resolved.
>
> What exactly is the underlying problem?

FWIW I have been using org-plus-contrib for a while now, and I haven't
had any problems with my customizations.

Re: ox-taskjuggler on MELPA useful despite org-plus-contrib

[Tim Cross]

While there are some minor issues with org-plus-contrib, I find them to
be minor and mostly due to limitations in package.el (for example,
dependency on org results in both org-plus-contrib and org packages
being installed). In fact, I find org-plus-contrib easier to manage than
just the straight org package as I experience fewer issues arising from
conflicts with the old 'bundled' version of org in emacs and the package
version. However, I also use use-package and I don't know to what extent
that impacts my load problems.

I do remember running into a frustrating limitation with org-taskjuggler
when I was using it a couple of years ago - cannot remember the specific
issue now, but do remember I would have to edit the exported taskjuggler
file after every export to adjust some parameters (it might have been
related to default project period, not sure).

Tim



Adam Porter writes:

> Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> writes:
>
>>> At least until the underlying problem with org-plus-contrib is
>>> resolved.
>>
>> What exactly is the underlying problem?
>
> FWIW I have been using org-plus-contrib for a while now, and I haven't
> had any problems with my customizations.


--
Tim Cross

Re: ox-taskjuggler on MELPA useful despite org-plus-contrib

[Adam Porter]

Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:

> While there are some minor issues with org-plus-contrib, I find them to
> be minor and mostly due to limitations in package.el (for example,
> dependency on org results in both org-plus-contrib and org packages
> being installed). In fact, I find org-plus-contrib easier to manage than
> just the straight org package as I experience fewer issues arising from
> conflicts with the old 'bundled' version of org in emacs and the package
> version.

I've had the same problem, I have to manually delete the extra org
package now and then.  I wonder if a dummy package would prevent
package.el from reinstalling it...

Re: ox-taskjuggler on MELPA useful despite org-plus-contrib

[Achim Gratz]

Adam Porter writes:
> I've had the same problem, I have to manually delete the extra org
> package now and then.  I wonder if a dummy package would prevent
> package.el from reinstalling it...

Yes it does and I've provided instructions on how to do that quite some
time ago on this list.


Regards,
Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

SD adaptation for Waldorf rackAttack V1.04R1:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSDada

Re: ox-taskjuggler on MELPA useful despite org-plus-contrib

[Thomas S. Dye]

In case it is useful, here is Achim's post:

From: Achim Gratz
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [O] Stable releases
Flags: replied, seen, list
Date: Sat Aug 22 07:44:14 2015
Maildir: /TSDYE/INBOX
List: emacs-orgmode.gnu.org

Thomas S. Dye writes:
> I do have a technical question that you or someone else on the list
> might be able to answer for me.  When I downloaded the Babel languages
> from melpa just now, the elpa version of Org mode was also downloaded
> and installed, even though I didn't ask for it.  Why is this?

Although you don't say which package you tried, I would guess that the
"org" package is specified as a dependency, likely with some minimum
version.

> Can it be disabled? Must the elpa Org mode be installed and activated
> in order for the Org mode packages to work?

From the point of package manager anything installed from the outside
doesn't exist.  You can fake that in various way, for instance by
creating a package directory "org-21991231" and putting an org-pkg.el
with

(define-package "org" "21991231" "Fake Org package for dependency resolution" 'nil)

in it.


Regards,
Achim.
--
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Waldorf MIDI Implementation & additional documentation:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfDocs


Achim Gratz writes:

> Adam Porter writes:
>> I've had the same problem, I have to manually delete the extra org
>> package now and then.  I wonder if a dummy package would prevent
>> package.el from reinstalling it...
>
> Yes it does and I've provided instructions on how to do that quite some
> time ago on this list.
>
>
> Regards,
> Achim.


--
Thomas S. Dye
http://www.tsdye.com

Re: ox-taskjuggler on MELPA useful despite org-plus-contrib

[Simon Guest]

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This is indeed useful, thanks.

I think this may be best done by some startup code, which when installing
org-plus-contrib with require-package, deletes any existing org package,
and makes this dummy org package.

Would it be useful if such code appeared within the org-plus-contrib
package itself, so we could have this sort of usage in our .emacs:

(require-package 'org-plus-contrib)
(org-plus-contrib-remove-and-stub-org-pkg)

I'm not particularly attached to the name, but you get the point.

What do you think?

cheers,
Simon

On 10 August 2017 at 07:37, Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:

> In case it is useful, here is Achim's post:
>
> From: Achim Gratz
> To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: [O] Stable releases
> Flags: replied, seen, list
> Date: Sat Aug 22 07:44:14 2015
> Maildir: /TSDYE/INBOX
> List: emacs-orgmode.gnu.org
>
> Thomas S. Dye writes:
> > I do have a technical question that you or someone else on the list
> > might be able to answer for me.  When I downloaded the Babel languages
> > from melpa just now, the elpa version of Org mode was also downloaded
> > and installed, even though I didn't ask for it.  Why is this?
>
> Although you don't say which package you tried, I would guess that the
> "org" package is specified as a dependency, likely with some minimum
> version.
>
> > Can it be disabled? Must the elpa Org mode be installed and activated
> > in order for the Org mode packages to work?
>
> From the point of package manager anything installed from the outside
> doesn't exist.  You can fake that in various way, for instance by
> creating a package directory "org-21991231" and putting an org-pkg.el
> with
>
> (define-package "org" "21991231" "Fake Org package for dependency
> resolution" 'nil)
>
> in it.
>
>
> Regards,
> Achim.
> --
> +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+
>
> Waldorf MIDI Implementation & additional documentation:
> http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfDocs
>
>
> Achim Gratz writes:
>
> > Adam Porter writes:
> >> I've had the same problem, I have to manually delete the extra org
> >> package now and then.  I wonder if a dummy package would prevent
> >> package.el from reinstalling it...
> >
> > Yes it does and I've provided instructions on how to do that quite some
> > time ago on this list.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Achim.
>
>
> --
> Thomas S. Dye
> http://www.tsdye.com
>
>

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Re: ox-taskjuggler on MELPA useful despite org-plus-contrib

[Tim Cross]

There are also some other alternatives on the emacs-devel list from when
I asked as a general question regarding package.el and dependencies.

Should be noted that this issue is primarily caused because, fro the
package.el perspective, org-plus-contrib is different to the org
package. Other ELPA/MELPA/etc packages have org as a dependency and not
org-plus-contrib. There is no support in package.el for alternative
dependencies.

I would be interested in understanding the rationale for having
org-plus-contrib rather than just an org package and an org-contrib
package? It should be possible to just have an org-contrib package which
depends on an org package (of same version). This would then avoid this
issue. As this is an obvious solution, I suspect there is something
subtle which unpins the rationale to have an org and org-plus-contrib
package approach, but don't know what that is.

Tim

Thomas S. Dye writes:

> In case it is useful, here is Achim's post:
>
> From: Achim Gratz
> To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: [O] Stable releases
> Flags: replied, seen, list
> Date: Sat Aug 22 07:44:14 2015
> Maildir: /TSDYE/INBOX
> List: emacs-orgmode.gnu.org
>
> Thomas S. Dye writes:
>> I do have a technical question that you or someone else on the list
>> might be able to answer for me.  When I downloaded the Babel languages
>> from melpa just now, the elpa version of Org mode was also downloaded
>> and installed, even though I didn't ask for it.  Why is this?
>
> Although you don't say which package you tried, I would guess that the
> "org" package is specified as a dependency, likely with some minimum
> version.
>
>> Can it be disabled? Must the elpa Org mode be installed and activated
>> in order for the Org mode packages to work?
>
> From the point of package manager anything installed from the outside
> doesn't exist.  You can fake that in various way, for instance by
> creating a package directory "org-21991231" and putting an org-pkg.el
> with
>
> (define-package "org" "21991231" "Fake Org package for dependency resolution" 'nil)
>
> in it.
>
>
> Regards,
> Achim.
> --
> +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+
>
> Waldorf MIDI Implementation & additional documentation:
> http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfDocs
>
>
> Achim Gratz writes:
>
>> Adam Porter writes:
>>> I've had the same problem, I have to manually delete the extra org
>>> package now and then.  I wonder if a dummy package would prevent
>>> package.el from reinstalling it...
>>
>> Yes it does and I've provided instructions on how to do that quite some
>> time ago on this list.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Achim.


-- 
Tim Cross

Re: ox-taskjuggler on MELPA useful despite org-plus-contrib

[Simon Guest]

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Hi Nicolas,

My problem with org-plus-contrib exhibited itself when using a .emacs.d
based on Steve Purcell's, https://github.com/purcell/emacs.d. Specfically,
when loading ob-R, I got this error:

Invalid function: org-babel-header-args-safe-fn

In response to your email, just now I stripped that config right back to
basics, and found that my problem went away, and I was able to load ob-R
after all.  Sorry, I should have done that before.

Having realised that, I think I should report this against Steve Purcell's
.emacs.d, and leave you guys alone.

Thanks for your help.

cheers,
Simon

On 8 August 2017 at 19:50, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Simon Guest <sjg@cantab.net> writes:
>
> > Well, almost as soon as I started on that, I see some issues around
> mixing
> > old/new org-mode functionality, so this seems like a not-so-good idea
> after
> > all.
> >
> > In particular, ox-taskjuggler is using the very new org-duration
> > library.
>
> You could use "ox-taskjuggler" from maint.
>
> > I'll think of another approach, not using MELPA.
>
> I suggest to use GNU ELPA instead.
>
> > At least until the underlying problem with org-plus-contrib is
> > resolved.
>
> What exactly is the underlying problem?
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Nicolas Goaziou
>
>

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Re: ox-taskjuggler on MELPA useful despite org-plus-contrib

[Thomas S. Dye]

Aloha Simon,

Spacemacs has this problem, too.  The solution there is to
byte-recompile org-plus-contrib after an update.

hth,
Tom

Simon Guest writes:

> Hi Nicolas,
>
> My problem with org-plus-contrib exhibited itself when using a .emacs.d
> based on Steve Purcell's, https://github.com/purcell/emacs.d. Specfically,
> when loading ob-R, I got this error:
>
> Invalid function: org-babel-header-args-safe-fn
>
> In response to your email, just now I stripped that config right back to
> basics, and found that my problem went away, and I was able to load ob-R
> after all.  Sorry, I should have done that before.
>
> Having realised that, I think I should report this against Steve Purcell's
> .emacs.d, and leave you guys alone.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> cheers,
> Simon
>
> On 8 August 2017 at 19:50, Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Simon Guest <sjg@cantab.net> writes:
>>
>> > Well, almost as soon as I started on that, I see some issues around
>> mixing
>> > old/new org-mode functionality, so this seems like a not-so-good idea
>> after
>> > all.
>> >
>> > In particular, ox-taskjuggler is using the very new org-duration
>> > library.
>>
>> You could use "ox-taskjuggler" from maint.
>>
>> > I'll think of another approach, not using MELPA.
>>
>> I suggest to use GNU ELPA instead.
>>
>> > At least until the underlying problem with org-plus-contrib is
>> > resolved.
>>
>> What exactly is the underlying problem?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> --
>> Nicolas Goaziou
>>
>>


--
Thomas S. Dye
http://www.tsdye.com