From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id yESLEg04lF6HQwAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 09:59:41 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id DRDLKQ84lF68KgAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 09:59:43 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF158942CD9 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 09:59:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:42322 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jNvsS-0002rV-OO for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 05:59:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52323) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jNvrv-0002pa-4e for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 05:59:08 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jNvru-0007GW-22 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 05:59:07 -0400 Received: from mail-vk1-xa2f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::a2f]:37887) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jNvrt-0007FL-SA for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 05:59:06 -0400 Received: by mail-vk1-xa2f.google.com with SMTP id f195so2121161vka.4 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 02:59:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=gCVXcOUH+kx1Ee3aYibwLna5SFOrELJ/GAxUHjX2oZk=; b=dz5hZVcQXJY2itPsWsFmme25s7wtje36bUkDA5D8Gxm8Kj7VI08Q9pqqT24m5XlWQc NXIXll2dSe6FTKnApP2BMYHUExa++f13Mf8UG3L+91WtqPmLX8JEA4IeFgj3AtSg0bdc +21vGNutnbPB6bVX/pKsDwac30HiSmZ2h7DBaomNcik5h/uUvWW41TsYSoCMLvmbS8Mh kU8inoVWCFPHCshD6zS3pZZ3WwNYoSkqK8mkQe8g1VRNFlOnTlh34yoOxmpLGOtiM6jI hYEjev32txqQ+bkjDrYesiLzbq30SHO8pUZxv4HvduJZgIlg6+HsOS9zSK4pUsgeP7sk jobA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=gCVXcOUH+kx1Ee3aYibwLna5SFOrELJ/GAxUHjX2oZk=; b=kALymk9WUWWepYlDd9fce3fdAS3Brl0D9oVs2k593HgCQsAzLZaIMp9dOQaoJYyhRc BfNRjOsDGabGKXKn2TvA+stOCtCXg7sN3KoM+vlaFzBtiAPnYjL5SgqCWiPJ1NejHk6J YyX7H5Qr7cyUCp6psnqO9Q2XldaUImHneTpRd0lP4h5uHb+1tEYKk6sxvJds7XkRytF5 bSj6HSlCApD6KC4gXSUmT2TfzMv2kJVdc8Q3h7cSPbRCC5GFJn8+IJ9mCqrNLBRcBMHJ DkMPdPIpfr7t1N//FRXRX7VLKNV9yN0RlcNSTB/4hTbu8rlsIkJyIaY4uhQwzJi9a8dc B9cg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubMpvXhnjQAkdV7uuoxrgdBdH3OYdhaLTMcxTtswzxEeeBx/cue EbqHqOhOCUpg+z5VIgbBWP7IGtc+QWCsO8himh4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKy6yhyrv71cqsQxpvGiw/RpTTxFvinydtZ3FRHWU7F6UzPxnaHx9d1fD7wXIznLFcpsGzk5LA/q5UXJmR9QuA= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:3649:: with SMTP id d70mr10002419vka.12.1586771942098; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 02:59:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <777184861.71192.1586510991834@office.mailbox.org> <87imi72bn0.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <1016821769.78551.1586641375789@office.mailbox.org> <87h7xp0z1y.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <874kto245n.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87sgh8zpmg.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <1084456979.81820.1586724551265@office.mailbox.org> <877dykz6ri.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> In-Reply-To: <877dykz6ri.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 05:58:50 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: wip-cite status question and feedback To: denis.maier.lists@mailbox.org, "Bruce D'Arcus" , "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::a2f X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: scn0 X-Spam-Score: -1.71 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=dz5hZVcQ; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Scan-Result: default: False [-1.71 / 13.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; GENERIC_REPUTATION(0.00)[-0.57733625926805]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.51.188.0/24:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; IP_REPUTATION_HAM(0.00)[asn: 22989(0.28), country: US(-0.01), ip: 209.51.188.17(-0.58)]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.50)[cached: eggs.gnu.org]; MAILLIST(-0.20)[mailman]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[mailbox.org,gmail.com,gnu.org]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS_MAILLIST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22989, ipnet:209.51.188.0/24, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[larch=yhetil.org]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[bdarcus@gmail.com,emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[emacs-orgmode@gnu.org]; HAS_LIST_UNSUB(-0.01)[]; FORGED_SENDER_MAILLIST(0.00)[] X-TUID: deu7hHpEs56U On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 6:19 PM Nicolas Goaziou wr= ote: > denis.maier.lists@mailbox.org writes: > > > Just one question concerning typed citations. citeX is good and > > concise, but why limit this to only one character? > > Because=E2=80=A6 it is good and concise? ;) > > > What about allowing something more verbose? Perhaps > > "cite-intext:" or "cite:intext:"? > > Note the latter introduces an ambiguity: [cite:see: @doe was right!]. > Fixing it requires two colons in default cite prefix: [cite::@doe]. > I don't think we want this. > > The former doesn't have this bias. So cite-intext vs citet? > > The simple syntax is great for most cases, but if you want to support > > some of those not so common biblatex commands, this might be better. > > Alphanumeric suffix provides 62 combinations, which should hopefully be > enough for any citation back-end out there (I'm looking at you > biblatex). It's not terribly readable, tho, as you point out. > > > What do you think? > > This is a conciseness versus readability problem, not a technical one, > as long as we do not allow too much, from a parser point of view. > > I have no strong opinion on the topic. It would be more valuable to hear > from actual citations users. What would they prefer? For me, I'm less concerned with the syntax question than I am with the flexibility and clarity of knowing how to get the output I want. If I have to look at some table of commands, or pause to remember which command I need, that's providing friction to my work. I will add that the biggest request of Zotero's citation support (which only has the two forms: parenthetical and suppress author) is textual citations, like natbib's citet. Perhaps it would make sense to reserve that style in org? Bruce