From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id KLCiKmxVhGA8IQEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 19:29:16 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id KC0+JmxVhGCDRQAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 17:29:16 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB1142E81F for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 19:29:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:48470 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1laM5g-0007TT-UQ for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 13:29:12 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36042) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1laM4q-0007Ss-AU for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 13:28:20 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-x42e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42e]:37702) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1laM4n-0005FP-EI for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 13:28:20 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id j5so50568234wrn.4 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 10:28:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=yBBHMBRu4usgjjs0BPe0Sv7hTm0sWCsF/Lx9c8GlR4M=; b=REYhNqmv/tC5WkE0/da4MkqNrYJqJLlB5gj2HyzNiY3qvTOnmYcMDRHS4dlaTQh8e9 O7WuNVP3wl9H0Bxv8A+ooVhiqD/TFud2ninlbvnhQi/JmPtHWJDuHc9fExS1Nqq1kKUE F7KWu4NHDjiIsClGjTVytYE94Qez9qNkmw2CQ7vSnT0rshWLQbzjnZBLolGoEXdbd/Va XB6cGBsiLBuUw4Ej9HZMzF6NK/cNOrhqaMXCxK+zs1q7V+McKmlwxeYCXp+r3Fi6WFht a2uYbnFmkcDFOpWM+h4ymCvIb+O8PGh4nUoOUALzXxpxkeURBArqWCehzS3MdKHzBX6E GKQw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=yBBHMBRu4usgjjs0BPe0Sv7hTm0sWCsF/Lx9c8GlR4M=; b=ntTNd7fp0CnvCtvSrT/V7ALM2S7FlT4IRVFlmNLKUx0PgN35tR+/HYRGv1s1lhnIVS IM+p/yBkjVj92UwscjctCE9UMv699P42jgbXMXae83lv4EEtH0YkLrlcE73HL1rv8WmH ye8QlNtjJZe1LCNHyNh13UfXP98KJHg2xU+AwM7mlT41mdMioIwWU7+xoi7CHNEF6z4x DIO9nQmK5GWyD9lyfXTjZm4RrgPjp8qQQGEpi0g14/fTSd7hJ3STz1S7l122HoL4NAIG pRi9o6euuYG/8lPn4FeVk0mJJHyGAWhtivWilerrKzojNxx4YXz1JT0MiaNh4Ntg/2Fq 6peA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530y4SUPLaQfjfD9KjLuqibF03/BuQr1sM5oYb8+mmZ6KU+rP1c9 OnJazqWi8I64tk+b6xLML/kP0dMWIVFSKPGJGhU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz8Px8bCBherw1oWDKzqm+EQ6TtXRYE29YQ+D+o0E/EFmHf4bs7MabweegRfnsjG8oz0DDkzIP596mAwIc2k3U= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:62cd:: with SMTP id o13mr12109888wrv.77.1619285295741; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 10:28:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87k0orfw4y.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> In-Reply-To: <87k0orfw4y.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2021 13:28:03 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: org-cite: make 'suppress-author' a citation 'style' To: "Bruce D'Arcus" , org-mode-email , Richard Lawrence Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d7bcb605c0bb3ca5" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42e; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42e.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1619285355; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=yBBHMBRu4usgjjs0BPe0Sv7hTm0sWCsF/Lx9c8GlR4M=; b=tgz32zdNWTEwk0VeW0D0phl9m6eYUBWWOv+ILYpqzYjB0VHS7tNg1d1IgxyOep5RPkt9Ph ZvhTVTbCjuZdqwJHlp8LxeHSEOZ3Lh12uRKk/81AQ8FDPGivZaDpW7A8r1UacY4azclo7+ pFW40DTXmf1wFk7TDZoDYBBGSvl2U27G3kjTOWyMp72otDwmU2RCP6BTh0mRKu4vU9HDXE FrHb52qs2uVMdu9yVThbqANgiOVxnF36MGAQo6UyuRxFdGLifjOEtrslv0RExcRfZ920MJ tL7R5x11rWsQltZMhGkcUpg2MUxuLtZ0nAFdqsAQnehNhhhfM1XjI1eKCVH+Bg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1619285355; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=qMU443bZOEyVrZCa9A1FiE4dqdSQ+kJzxuksQXYNeOVPOPA4Bfl3sXm3Mf7tACtURdJmwg JaIy+yXee5EyLj5+dfPIgbD1VorIRQB2ywScmgyfKJ1kUdw/xPQNDWkq5w8Z6P1UiLQBML K8YFB5tnb/Nz1QxtAIsOECgR09ppflTcaK8TZYC9aPZ7eXcRKv95xhlcMmJcT/4Y3vhRYC qG7cr6E896Sb5ExPgDhJkYr3/0Tcr8xilNYx9o92fPsM8jjPZSiUs1yGI1v1WU4BEEy3eG On3PTEjsveH96oKpZ9ZttY7uLefo4z7NKiHvVM5Ng7/uD4z6Pgrl54+6NvKkKQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=REYhNqmv; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.64 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=REYhNqmv; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: EB1142E81F X-Spam-Score: -1.64 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: SgLFRH6KT2+d --000000000000d7bcb605c0bb3ca5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 1:08 PM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > Hello, > > "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > > > This distinction is wrong, and we should treat "suppress-author" as a > > citation style instead. > > > > The result would be: > > > > [cite/supress-author:doe19;doe20] > > > > Or even can keep the shorthand: > > > > [cite/-:doe19;doe20] > > > > In fact, with the change, could even remove it entirely > > We introduced :suppress-author because someone requested it at some > point. I don't remember who, but it may be worth asking that person. > I did some quick searching. Wow; this goes back a long time! Anyway, Richard Lawrence summarized previous discussions, which includes this detail, in this 2015 post: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-02/msg00932.html Not sure if he introduced the idea or not, but if not, he should know. I think there are two points to consider before removing suppress-author > syntax: > > 1. does it make sense to apply it independently on references within > a full citation? > > 2. does it make sense to apply it on top of another style? > Yes; excellent summary. As I say, my impulse is to say no to both, outside some corner cases that people could work around in other ways. But I hope people will challenge me if this is a bad idea. And hopefully Richard can weigh in. If both answers are no, this can definitely go away. > > > Or even can keep the shorthand: > > > > [cite/-:doe19;doe20] > > Note that Org Citation library does not recognize styles. It is up to > the processor to interpret it as a short-hand for "suppress-author". > Right; I understand. Bruce > --000000000000d7bcb605c0bb3ca5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 1:08 PM Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr> wrote:=
Hello,

"Bruce D'Arcus" <bdarcus@gmail.com> writes:

> This distinction is wrong, and we should treat "suppress-author&q= uot; as a
> citation style instead.
>
> The result would be:
>
> [cite/supress-author:doe19;doe20]
>
> Or even can keep the shorthand:
>
> [cite/-:doe19;doe20]
>
> In fact, with the change, could even remove it entirely

We introduced :suppress-author because someone requested it at some
point. I don't remember who, but it may be worth asking that person.

I d= id some quick searching.

Wow; this goes back a long time!

Anyway, Richard Lawrence summarized previous discussions, which i= ncludes this detail, in this 2015 post:

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/20= 15-02/msg00932.html

= Not sure if he introduced the idea or not, but if not, he should know.

<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> I think there are two points to consider before removing suppress-author syntax:

1. does it make sense to apply it independently on references within
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a full citation?

2. does it make sense to apply it on top of another style?
=

Yes; excellent su= mmary.

As I say, my impu= lse is to say no to both, outside some corner cases that people could work = around in other ways.

Bu= t I hope people will challenge me if this is a bad idea.

And hopefully Richard can weigh in.
<= div dir=3D"auto">
If both answers are no, this can definitely go away.

> Or even can keep the shorthand:
>
> [cite/-:doe19;doe20]

Note that Org Citation library does not recognize styles. It is up to
the processor to interpret it as a short-hand for "suppress-author&quo= t;.

Right; I understand.

= Bruce
--000000000000d7bcb605c0bb3ca5--