From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id ILeqAKj4g2BdxgAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 12:53:28 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id gFEPOKf4g2BnbQAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 10:53:27 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5449D1F7EF for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 12:53:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:37010 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1laFuf-0001iR-7C for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 06:53:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53116) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1laFuI-0001iK-9t for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 06:53:02 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x32d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32d]:50980) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1laFuG-0003dl-Ie for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 06:53:01 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id n84so163272wma.0 for ; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 03:53:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=t+7p8B5rm3gNsGW1wfv6kgUC2cYggqc5fYIxjhO/bPs=; b=nKtFLAymPTMXYGNnXdIclWvQuJKTFxbo6mOdTXDUwNRZTFZ7NalYGPAudKLWfXSTia GiBK/u5dhWhCEUcuI0byHQBOPP4j+ZxTYwBL/pM9qNovwE2lUm3MKX/g9mlncS9fU1pK IrDmMh7Godv7InWhLBRuo3c9DskJhOZqZFVEjLe6+0uAXbp6csyL5NtAKSdbZMpnZq6C W9Exl6eXtZ0tLtdJdpmRQ1E19NOhdWwn+dS+0tS9Rk4e95BYnFARk2AR7AegdrjsYn9s oUQlRC1DQKBmazGxafiKn14oze1ruXcy7trdx1KJVb3i00vASLIa50ve/YETlhEyfE1m 7vXA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=t+7p8B5rm3gNsGW1wfv6kgUC2cYggqc5fYIxjhO/bPs=; b=N++nXwr0+8PN6T5NBUoVBQNHDkV8ndxclTF5cp6FYxoFXoz00G6DRGqseBMBfWDWCu NKAYptCglGLgkAokLeLHsmTMN7PRe5CjW107GFGb/D3zQ2lYeKzJJigoGn7G3dt3viqU FjPwD3QHrX6Zgq8zNRWud9gbF0FLS2O1kSN+kKIoZ73ikEkwCKuIal+upftDSo4jy1yz n0IPD5FNB1VOZkmglu0rWpdlEJwpynGYihu7/JIOvumz7jeRL6ljnwlW6vR7LIHnoKvv cvtnd7kJrBs6va3mJWjyydSoJJpSDZQxLWznYBZTszigcjAR1vELmZ8WTGxrF14xZR9j yx0g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530vK8P6wbT8oQVluex2HX6/SgMBoadt46Kx7624m274WrBccCBI 4aQ2oxxutE9/2F6qnjK2Cy67T33awmaEyzmDuGH24kPdWAmg0Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxXQsEGe2JfoIImwJor6IKSjdA3qyWoeOpyC4ZtE2B953PXleC9GcP29jrtj3M1B+cQj5v1RvZqR05/w0GWMkY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:379a:: with SMTP id o26mr8573038wmr.66.1619261578444; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 03:52:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2021 06:52:51 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: org-cite: make 'suppress-author' a citation 'style' To: org-mode-email Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32d; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x32d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1619261607; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=t+7p8B5rm3gNsGW1wfv6kgUC2cYggqc5fYIxjhO/bPs=; b=NVO23X+IPnYEWgKq70ZldVfsrOqo7C4EzcZTQX/T44m/HpMiZGwUUGjO99bHW6R0PFcAFM Mumf1KMRPayCzEHopYJ7GLSgjJ/mazZ91pJkICYU7ORoFwXvEPxTXy1HwlgFcpKG7JTCfB 6BzI9Puwpr7xFwsNzNYGQH1HJN2EQPGhOYpJ3GyK2Wr56MBshhkydAwmmcCPFWLyuRqN+X nkK81ZXLr7VcXOlmW6f/W0YvUGRtu9oilchrfjGcgQIU6ux3l0ZlrsK3ICSMvsEu7jIrTq E0bABrdIeQcHBJXh7E3+23tZs5XvHgnV9LdrRGWoz/XHDGfrEPuS/f9KsaLtrg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1619261607; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=YyPXYZzRlwIdoRaZ9unXtLA957oxTfCc47OhGB9u3uiJQPeW0cyS5YbYENg5QORQu02Ccj GaRHpbbnhvK73QzHPXqqJEhnZ6TBMQxnS0bq0c1Gy2oM0hZAVltdlgqGyElUSxr2cJAcgC X1KtrGHI15ro4Vtof/oGYshY3CE/6NRR+TdTMdJz5yiuoEHeZAq4Urb7kHpizb1MqVPY+S QuuFpFVvIXN/5O5MQupj2AsKSZ3RVGNRlW0B6/jrqJ0Yw8Pp+8iWvhwjcb0ycryNEzdMEs 9a8JSQLiMtfi98yzmkpJXqE4pc0oJjeLfIf2rtnUxKxAVLUOEQYBhSuHaxKwfQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=nKtFLAym; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.14 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=nKtFLAym; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 5449D1F7EF X-Spam-Score: -3.14 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: s4aXiSyeJfPQ Hi Nicolas, As I was working on adding a function to generate the new cite syntax, an idea occurred to me that I'd like to raise, that would simplify this model and syntax. I ran the idea by the pandoc list just to confirm my thinking was reasonable, since that has a lot of experience using these plain-text citations. https://groups.google.com/g/pandoc-discuss/c/zbntclaBWDc/m/DCx-mpfcDQAJ Let's review: In org-cite, we have citations, and citation items. Citations may have optional styles. Citation items may have an optional "suppress-author" "variant", indicated with a "-". So: [cite:-doe19;doe20] The idea: This distinction is wrong, and we should treat "suppress-author" as a citation style instead. The result would be: [cite/supress-author:doe19;doe20] Or even can keep the shorthand: [cite/-:doe19;doe20] In fact, with the change, could even remove it entirely If you read the discussion in the pandoc list, there is mild, but I don't think convincing, pushback. Part of that pushback is an artifact of the fact that pandoc citations don't have a notion of citation style, where you specify things like OTOH, pandoc and (haskell) citeproc author John MacFarlane agrees that in retrospect the pandoc decision was probably wrong, in part because of another related issue. Supress-author is a convention that CSL implementations settled on, arguably a hack, to get around lack of explicit support for natbib citet-like citations (though this is being added in the next version). So to get "Doe (2019) argues" you would need to write "Doe [@doe19]" in pandoc, for example. But if you can do this in org-cite, "suppress-author" is no longer needed: "[cite/text:@doe19] argues ..." Both should probably be possible, but the textual (aka narrative) style is what most users are looking for there IMO. I think a positive side-effect is this model would match better LaTeX output models (natbib and biblatex namely). WDYT? Bruce