From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id cOmCI/5spF5/aQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 17:01:50 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id KJZUFQVtpF6IagAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 17:01:57 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B852F94311C for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 17:01:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:41162 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSOBe-0001Vd-WB for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:01:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37434) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSOAi-0001GG-AV for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:00:57 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSOAg-0006OJ-KH for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:00:56 -0400 Received: from mail-ua1-x92d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::92d]:40920) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jSOAg-0006KK-3z for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:00:54 -0400 Received: by mail-ua1-x92d.google.com with SMTP id a10so12778671uad.7 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 10:00:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=JYnl768hLwqkWRLPYyD2NKYWFbJ13cNlwhutawJvZCE=; b=ilLKEHTM8f10sxrEQAsq7bM0rmlj92NTvoikNFaaAtOjz1M8o6ZZFADtI/XuJyoVD1 RuvOmblM4uIPU0Ah7tH6A43zalBOPRJ3U/Uy2pPgBcCs/nKVVbTIbOWz79ACw/Z2t1yF poDtdLYu5GuUJuwocmh8fSI4DZIMXVavaTh+4kGzH0+h+7UbVlbpmKxX7rcHujr7Bh4l eOnpBxMOFYw7WaWZB55X72d0OxLA8ybwL4bfJUZpJaygphG8U11oi5bX/Eyd/22r5EMw WwXZ8wFuNPW7M8x3D56SvTRknrcw9I0bn6A2Xf4gB855plkdRQ3c5R+trNMdX3ba3Pnm PAig== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=JYnl768hLwqkWRLPYyD2NKYWFbJ13cNlwhutawJvZCE=; b=ieXP4h/vRX2719cs7YSitErRkDCUnUUfhRxD28/gKhlSAT7kFHUlTW2cHnZFwxGazY ZjBLE2KYtZm8FehwUCyOsZxG86z1MJEpaPpILGT829gkxzwjizF5d/S2uqepT1v1D0dx 8j01V2UiUIQM1XicU35GQcZAGUFFIJj6SS4rR2giTzRreKwEpT0RY/6rajsIR9L0SPXZ B9HFjcgIZ4z2ejdsoh8GrREbDugL8J057sLQfyUyO55QWVWNJsk1Dl3eKcjxo2cJQenk gWogDuaN3bVhyl60yxrkyZTL+shhHH0iRFV2E8f+FRzoiKrSAbdbq+nuXdbdxye0EJq5 RR9A== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYzYcvHLY25Xu0QoMtFCK5GEfXz5Wc1QTb3QWvHelhXXBZHXlaV G5wjcncp1fnHV6zjxuIT6FvlFnThO9xTDrggP6k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJRYOIqFztydUW0ZBDh+yG77qTCcxxbU8F+DE6zVaPPqbYFmcYJ6O3nc+phy7af4Tqvhjxwqq4QNR3+VAffWbE= X-Received: by 2002:a67:df86:: with SMTP id x6mr12450044vsk.60.1587834052613; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 10:00:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <777184861.71192.1586510991834@office.mailbox.org> <87imi72bn0.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <1016821769.78551.1586641375789@office.mailbox.org> <87h7xp0z1y.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <874kto245n.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87sgh8zpmg.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <1084456979.81820.1586724551265@office.mailbox.org> <877dykz6ri.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87r1wrwvam.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87wo6hfg4k.fsf@aquinas> <87v9lx6ju6.fsf@aquinas> <87r1wj7scc.fsf@aquinas> <87lfmjzgeq.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> In-Reply-To: <87lfmjzgeq.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:00:40 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: wip-cite status question and feedback To: Richard Lawrence , "Bruce D'Arcus" , org-mode-email , John Kitchin Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::92d; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-ua1-x92d.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::92d X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: scn0 X-Spam-Score: -1.71 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=ilLKEHTM; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Scan-Result: default: False [-1.71 / 13.00]; GENERIC_REPUTATION(0.00)[-0.55987159077639]; DWL_DNSWL_FAIL(0.00)[gmail.com:server fail,209.51.188.17:server fail]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.51.188.0/24:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; IP_REPUTATION_HAM(0.00)[asn: 22989(0.20), country: US(-0.00), ip: 209.51.188.17(-0.56)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.50)[cached: eggs.gnu.org]; MAILLIST(-0.20)[mailman]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[uni-tuebingen.de,gmail.com,gnu.org,andrew.cmu.edu]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS_MAILLIST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22989, ipnet:209.51.188.0/24, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[larch=yhetil.org]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[bdarcus@gmail.com,emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; URIBL_BLOCKED(0.00)[nicolasgoaziou.fr:email]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[emacs-orgmode@gnu.org]; HAS_LIST_UNSUB(-0.01)[]; DNSWL_BLOCKED(0.00)[209.51.188.17:from]; FORGED_SENDER_MAILLIST(0.00)[] X-TUID: XKOlQ4Ri92eN First, thanks for your work on this Nicolas; really awesome to see the progress! I'm just going to address your syntax/cite command question. I don't have concerns about the other details, and I think others are better positioned to comment on those ... On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 12:20 PM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: ... > I assume [cite:...] is the default citation style, defined at the > citation processor's level. Styled citations override locally the > default style. Again, a processor not handling a given style is expected > to fallback to default style. > > As a consequence, there is no special syntax for "author-in-text" style. > But we can suggest one for back-end processors. We might want to stick > to the most complete one, BibLaTeX, IIUC, and /require/ processors to > support, at least: > > [cite/text: ...] > [cite/paren: ...] > > With this bare minimum, we ensure documents are somehow portable between > processors, and, therefore, export back-ends. ... So in this approach, we have a single core "cite" command, and everything else is a namespaced extension? My understanding, though, is that org "cite" would default to your last example I quote above (in natibib, citep); that there's no need for a dedicated "cite/paren" command, either reserved or not. So by default, the "cite" command might yield something like this on output (of course, depending on processor)? - to natbib/latex = "\citep{doe18}" For final HTML output (say using citeproc-el/org), something like: - author-date = "(Doe, 2018)" - number = "[3]" - note = "2" (represented as a footnote or endnote, of course) ... etc. And then we need a mechanism to do the textual variant (natbib citet); "cite/text" makes sense to me. Given how common that is (In natbib, it and citep are the two core commands), is there any downside to reserving that? And then I guess the "suppress-author" variant would be something like "cite/year" or "cite/suppress-author"? Bruce