From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id oJpQFRvpx2DlQgEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 01:41:15 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id yFnSEBvpx2CdVAAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 23:41:15 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AF1AFBA1 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 2021 01:41:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:52408 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lswCe-0006pj-Cw for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 19:41:12 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52802) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lsw9R-0004uS-QK for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 19:37:53 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x334.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::334]:38886) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lsw9O-00031n-JZ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 19:37:53 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x334.google.com with SMTP id t4-20020a1c77040000b029019d22d84ebdso470334wmi.3 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:37:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dH7BUPMcLe1Wm7WpRTstJzIrHFVmjKQoMaowQfCE1uE=; b=BcN6k4L5q7sTm4krlBo4ySBXpbbB+MEwKR27qUCGNS/50oXv7HQE6sYBU7dNUFFZ9t kA9ARo5TJZYH+x2mpMm7fKk0qp/2C5hN6c+S4qRFQEuhkKEHGB/Pf8k6mbZewh3pdtx0 zmDAB8huBI/LWbB3+EL806Ri1NO4Zrxs/b2ju7y7FJt9T9eahMEGyaC8kym0haJq3T8y TC47X+SoMBAsHo9o1GjzAOt0PSOZOImB3I1k8zsbPi1prDbNT3fy+9J1OQn3lSOsZoP/ k8boWr9friXiJup31G2Du0OwkugV7AQkFkgO7uDYQmzfTZHc8hfM7OiHViECLXlZ5XPa UWZA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dH7BUPMcLe1Wm7WpRTstJzIrHFVmjKQoMaowQfCE1uE=; b=GkFQGHPqwz9uE9HT7UTVLVWkn1QZuyC5Wc9rnoEw3rOojV8ACkkKPuY9zHeXmcGIWF Ivj/ZZ0W4l25VkfJImiQ0ib2UdA0nWN8smScQZVzRuctk74OPIdrroYwHp5BOcetkeO8 DLnbuTS6YIB3Sz8xshw+r75paq/vBauNkI4eUwOHggg2CIWad86hnWrV4h/qdCX0jAOh HundxO5bYA6aOodDdDFsDJHfQbrHeBM56tzMPS4ATTdYR6mLjtxSv5vY2juJUXuBTNVz Legk7QFLYIC3N9Pn7ny+Y5++5Gn2JezU2NlmtyxsQvJA/65M1VjUEP6/xAC71r4ZIMUY sk0g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531hwXifq+FGN48nmA2Bu5WXTl8BkwKrsWjEAXo+y7m4FuL9qS7j zqv4A8mubDQ9Sf2xf02L2YeFphIgXlF6Ajgvhs0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxItTojCOIqtSd8m8lkBovPYaUsMUflDbwuVydu5lN3dWnpm0lcGp1OyAU6vAYz2hWWBblK3vg+oMy2AlscxO0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:1c1b:: with SMTP id j27mr19396440wms.133.1623713868066; Mon, 14 Jun 2021 16:37:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <871raawc7j.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <4dd47d8d-5dd8-4769-7e2f-eb3438ba0b4a@mailbox.org> <87sg2orz0z.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <81051f87-a90e-56ed-7867-d6179ec1e9ad@mailbox.org> <139ff81d-4af6-1e75-f4c9-416032fc514f@mailbox.org> <87h7icatav.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <952cbae3-496c-acea-4ff1-beb9c3306979@mailbox.org> <87zgvvtoay.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <535c4059-e019-0970-afea-efed82b003ac@mailbox.org> <2009852882.89167.1623622988878@office.mailbox.org> <48377c85-5891-3658-d35b-cba1358878a8@mailbox.org> In-Reply-To: <48377c85-5891-3658-d35b-cba1358878a8@mailbox.org> From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 19:37:34 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations To: Denis Maier Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::334; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x334.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Org Mode List , Nicolas Goaziou Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1623714075; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=dH7BUPMcLe1Wm7WpRTstJzIrHFVmjKQoMaowQfCE1uE=; b=I4lZdxGXO05lxiZm3p3YEnnIsp6QxBxBr412PooANysf/iCAHvennpbK26fR7hokDecZhB CjOG7vVdiL8v/7iEIn3M980RG8fi29Ubc8ug3SxngHM1UTsukDywI2FJkDfIo3J8Zw+ODM vYDKHey2haEEDr6A1/0jXUgui1RUPO56EM/d9d3V4wi2MzQnSLVxJU5AF+NzMIS80T+DcS OB0bXjwgA8rfLe/KTRwEDAjD8RrXT9xtthgvkTKU7WIyAMFW0dfTp/HM5aJKtXkUz0aGCh IfNCd6uRkNU4qcIl7V7pfpftVjPsvMKWGCyzmXKnOTzYQ3BliPjLRwd+8RuNhQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1623714075; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=JeA/6EfkoSB3T+4U5AooVpja57Ndamz/UcutXvz+YCRXjU0tA4foqgGbNgWijFF6390nyq T0ITFbXD2FY9ZMSVOIr+ibRG8cFOXleTTdXkVBM9GtPFtVuDXornD+57u6D8oqtreETdXy 4XCFZODEgNxQj1fu09kH7J8A1b75WfEszYMiyyIFjAWgCtT5EOtxhRuzEEyLMO3wif8Ya6 U1WUMj3xQOqT0hMe1i+2q6MFtvrvaGdYPfdhtgFib4cMVvbFF4CIjD9L9u3bPBRCHitmvX 5utyW/09IaRuJ67C2Gv9XfATJUM+4Ej7dliAXYW/hLxmd4UM7d+IGA+9aPguZw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=BcN6k4L5; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.12 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=BcN6k4L5; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 9AF1AFBA1 X-Spam-Score: -3.12 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: CoIZfuOkRGp9 On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 7:45 AM Denis Maier wrote: > > Below a few examples of what I mean. > > WDYT? Am I missing something? > > Denis > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > #+cite_export: csl > #+cite_export: csl "C:/Users/denis/Zotero/styles/chicago-note-bibliograph= y.csl" > #+bibliography: test.bib > > * Original source > > "A quotation ending with a period." > > "A quotation ending without punctuation" > > * Author-date style input (=3D semantically non-strict input) > > "A quotation ending with a period" [cite: @hoel-71-whole]. > > "A quotation ending without punctuation" [cite: @hoel-71-whole]. > > ** author-date output with language: en-us > Expected: "A quotation ending with a period" (Hoel 1971). > Actual: "A quotation ending with a period" (Hoel 1971). > > Expected: "A quotation ending without punctuation" (Hoel 1971). > Actual: "A quotation ending without punctuation" (Hoel 1971). > > =3D> ok > > ** author-date output with language: de > Expected: "A quotation ending with a period" (Hoel 1971). > Actual: "A quotation ending with a period" (Hoel 1971). > > Expected: "A quotation ending without punctuation" (Hoel 1971). > Actual: "A quotation ending without punctuation" (Hoel 1971). > > =3D> ok > > ** note style output with language: en-us > Expected: "A quotation ending with a period."[1] > Actual: "A quotation ending with a period."[1] > > Expected: "A quotation ending without punctuation."[1] > Actual: "A quotation ending without punctuation."[1] > > =3D> ok > > ** note style output with language: en-gb or de > Expected: "A quotation ending with a period."[1] > Actual: "A quotation ending with a period".[1] > > Expected: "A quotation ending without punctuation".[1] > Actual: "A quotation ending without punctuation".[1] > > =3D> Here, we cannot distinguish between the two cases as we don't know w= hether punctuation appears in the original source. > > * Note style input (=3Dsemantically strict input) > > "A quotation ending with a period." [cite: @hoel-71-whole] > > "A quotation ending without punctuation". [cite: @hoel-71-whole] > > As the input preserves the location of punctuation in the original materi= al, I'd say it should be much easier to deal with this. We don't have to ad= d information which isn't in the input, but rather we'll just have to move = any punctuation to after the citation object. Maybe I'm missing something, = but to me this looks like a much simpler operation than going in the opposi= te direction. > > Maybe we should stop talking about author date vs note style input, but r= ather about strict vs. non-strict input. It's definitely not author-date vs note. I see it as in-text citations vs note citations. As in, the former applies to other styles beyond author-date. The example you are highlighlighting here was why I was earlier suggesting for a rule that would allow something like this input: "A quotation ending with a period." [cite: @hoel-71-whole]. ... where the second would be dropped, hence getting the expected output. But IDK what Nicolas thinks of considering that now, or deferring for later consideration. Bruce