From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id pF0HG/HUhmD2FAEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 16:57:53 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id GCSfFfHUhmBISgAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 14:57:53 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B90091933F for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 16:57:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:41532 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lb2gJ-0000Fe-Qu for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 10:57:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57606) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lb2dW-0006UE-4l for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 10:54:58 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x330.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::330]:51052) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lb2dU-0001PX-Am for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 10:54:57 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x330.google.com with SMTP id n84so2942449wma.0 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 07:54:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=QpSUgYdkxTKigd5cd7Bzl+k9oX640t9hmoaLRebNmbI=; b=ktOfzqcd4h/Fl2o0W6eEFGwIMdQuI99x6x22z2kWBoiLvFsMiCio7kYW4W+nWP43gj uZJGa2jsr85GHGqzlaI50MfRmF4bMsEExh/HYm0JeNyIdaZkz2SnQET17Zapw1F5O1nt 6IQr2U/25wjrMZ3VU6W+B/BgW5TcZajbBxHud+S+/GgTyDeo8jy9yC+nixeRhlwtC/QF dh05pkt3zfKcCSuYF7PZkGW+0BzTryD3EWo541myVd7Cr9w9RTyQ6SLA8xwsHL8+GkWX oD7pPLjlUpricSQHor6jD/vGw6ujoVyfLvRlt3wF6ECSJ4P7Km60ZiaxYTeJxv+/bD+f ZAAA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=QpSUgYdkxTKigd5cd7Bzl+k9oX640t9hmoaLRebNmbI=; b=bnqUcnfbddgCTI/9SP3cNdOGHI8PD9JQkZN6j3YBYQ8HsO5pkG62J2BcjZWgg3tIw3 LnD4MJPrVylBlnWDqPnfirc7rWVXU3gYExEcKXP90y6hWiWsrtSdLmvVQUO/9G6DAcmf UxqeQb6ZtMqI9mu26Kk3fWBis15fzcEqBB9nLP6wJKlx+uDf3Nd2VNoQ/H317P6Da6R6 vSw20qa2q2VYTX1g4pmtiGyRCq/ODO1DdST8XS2+SMmzmiLAW2KVpXZqOLAWB2N71Uld s5y3RcFAVmxNv19OVYM9QY4jf0+9a7Is8KH+U4Mjh1nj9l8WM+1w/Ipf1el16D88g1NA NFQQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532LN53F0/VEZVM/r1x5WagkGb0mQAP56t9xvuN0qN8VSfBVZxOZ u4hCMes8Ou3swj55lALGgglFb3yu+08tSXAOl5Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy6IhN3GaZ1IBMl+WstTAv9EmN27jEcEJ/YJiX19F/1YeIMm6paEpbh8urOZwJv4A9CzX7jy8vXYow+aliexnI= X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c1c2:: with SMTP id a2mr13002215wmj.13.1619448894749; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 07:54:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <874ktu8gr9.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87mu5xpm4x.fsf@gnu.org> <87img81ad7.fsf@gnu.org> <20210324182751.GA8721@atlantis> <87czuzprmh.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87sg3neo0k.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87eef35h7n.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87a6pr5g4m.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <877dkt2pce.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <878s57fubm.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> In-Reply-To: From: "Bruce D'Arcus" Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 10:54:43 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: wip-cite status question and feedback To: "Bruce D'Arcus" , =?UTF-8?Q?Andr=C3=A1s_Simonyi?= , "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::330; envelope-from=bdarcus@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x330.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1619449072; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=QpSUgYdkxTKigd5cd7Bzl+k9oX640t9hmoaLRebNmbI=; b=Jh6rKa5BWahDE/081A8RDtPq+em1smxmVvqLdvWF+908W07sPvONgbMdrjzw5hELJ+O+Sy hCyTQ4dZzNXyFLWdHX2+rbNhFjKa8kic2NdZ0pcDDLDrMYhYrMsGmwL2WNV8gjNH35PiFi SBxAVE/iv4xSbuT0CZHBErqL57tl9Q7CKvA9pW84/bYZWAVx5mgkLVT3KifLHM4D+EHhkG 9OAf/p4Vf3s1UikOrTqBwZMZR4xOm8KriZWDX+dlNLR3vIZHA2RPocy0CNrNMkrCeFASTg 5DwqEQi0RanmRhS+8ls7ISVoRr8AL8b2a8BegdNP7r6iXa7hTD5QG5J6kOkjrw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1619449072; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=HUUHzPfhvIS/9PEB723gPdkdNvjH4cQffLtGrmDkRJ49WG0/zDonS6BtyCQkuOypY4o4jd r6WmqbYh35c8LcLmypR/qmFLr/VUB5gCneTenkFpeejBhHvJ24YHvqSXOPiH33goLvjM+c CldeOp5Jf+dG4Dsix5094Unwyb3UOQmZm8zu1R9/F8t+yISiv83jujA8ylzsYhhzaQGq4T IXGeaAnaEBfcnAuLVFv866Trugqtw8uJUXk3ZvVgIP4HG4zWUjbnfpWaoKjsmmqk6VExbU 5WB8/mgImYBrKzMNSQbvPw6SEsDFhogSALzkFrZ1oF35BkkvyGNaUlLBJn4TuQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=ktOfzqcd; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.15 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=ktOfzqcd; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B90091933F X-Spam-Score: -3.15 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 0jgt00PuafBT I had an idea on this, though it may not be a good one ... On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 2:39 PM Bruce D'Arcus wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 1:47 PM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > > > > > Some sentence with a concluding citation [cite:@key]. > > > > > > ... that should end up like this: > > > > > > Some sentence with a concluding citation.[1] > > > > > > Aside: looking through the CSL spec, it doesn't seem this is > > > documented. It obviously should be. > > > > > > And I don't remember if that convention is locale-specific; e.g. if > > > while that's the standard in English, it could be different in France. > > > > > > In any case, this sort of punctuation modification should be possible. > > > > Could you show more example of this, possibly including quotes the > > citation, or better, a precise description of the punctuation > > modification you have in mind? > > Yes. > > Denis lays it out in this comment: > > https://github.com/citation-style-language/documentation/issues/139#issuecomment-825934813 > > What he's arguing is that the rules vary by locale, with German, for > example (he's employed at a Swiss-German institution, I believe), > having different conventions than English, and American English > different than British English. > > But an example from American English for illustration, derived from > Denis' examples. > > "A simple quote" [cite:@doe]. > > When rendered, that should be this in an author-date style: > > "A simple quote" (Doe 2021). > > ... and this in a note style: > > "A simple quote."[^1] > > So that rule would suggest something like: > > - if a citation concludes a sentence, move the note mark and whatever > trailing quotation mark, outside the period. > > But, Denis continues, "While this is perfectly acceptable in American > English, it is not in German, or even in British English. Here we have > to know whether the final period is part of the original quotation. If > yes, it will be put inside the quotes, otherwise outside." I'll paste > the rest of his examples at the end. > > It's possible his rule here is more general, and would still be > acceptable in American English. The idea is this: make use of a "quote" style and abuse the item prefix for the quote content? So using his example: [cite/quote:;A simple quote. @doe20] A processor could then know the citation is associated with a quote that ends a sentence, vs (note missing period): [cite/quote:;A simple quote @doe20] ... and then more easily adjust accordingly, without needing to know anything about the surrounding punctuation. Does that make sense? Bruce