From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id kNznLb4oO2S4WwAASxT56A (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2023 00:44:14 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id OIQMLb4oO2QHYwEAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2023 00:44:14 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 512A23E132 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2023 00:44:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnocM-00021h-0V; Sat, 15 Apr 2023 18:43:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnocK-00021K-L7 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2023 18:43:36 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2c]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnocH-0004Ma-Bm for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2023 18:43:35 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com with SMTP id k39so532432ybj.8 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2023 15:43:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681598612; x=1684190612; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=U4id8zUTWNAoJPznwO2SVQ4zgjwrXG1vu7udIdQsyiQ=; b=Adn+rbzz/yh3zOg+0SOWS+/N1IwzYCzthMfahSAJWlQSs/akh9GpALIFCc1cQkhd+z v7yx6h++SJPOsIcETLr0KqpqFs7Tc9IHVicU1mMBNRlHcqEtgw5auaUM6P3R+xuIO6Ra MARv5T82vdFGniO4Z/68iguH22FeuMs2UXQV6/HuV3eTlBQuujYpv3rav0lx5oMMDCAK YEPfS6DCZOgaKta6BesUsuwdPH7BsbDrBfYuRNxZwq7BeDz4/kq7Dr4h5oaWEskoXdCt 14VDlWDE5KwL8iVNgnqrERDnP4BVSDIF7mn78O12LE/VunJcA1ULhPXUOKl9aIJ5C+Om o4MA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681598612; x=1684190612; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=U4id8zUTWNAoJPznwO2SVQ4zgjwrXG1vu7udIdQsyiQ=; b=fyyr7cmIhhNECYb1cQ7+652R2NPnVE9pWmUylQ+91aaHKAJbiuSNLxgVkOg6DroYrc GXEsQ3Y8KhDzinf/yXfa/9YkC++wBbhXMkqBjfx+yOZqrHmjlVYHPNQR6wVjwJQPOprR jj8p/vaheV/jwRXBk75Z1AFVx32CtyEZ/aaiJom3eva9mOHCFCVnXjo+GtW/HX+M7MVj rmUFU4QPSxlOxnvO/cONA+dkSNOhAVzHYLiMXhy7e5aQV2cRhA8dlwE6vJZfaA85DW/V JPnz3/xKxfPbJJ616I9k9KToOPevtU409vwg5A10+xlPzEuM2lSh5XfXWea40qPxsi35 aeVA== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9fxB4DARVcAzXDjV3JhuphwVv+fejIrn63124e59VC5F5GIPkOv d4p4gI/OA1ioRp/JpAiO7RmIH92UQ+sZ/TA7dOc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350bc5xSlPHtn0Mw5LgTidrw6zIPOnSOsjOBQF9ldH3pYg69mVERlnhvgrMFeZ2b6NWF8zbK1HF1T9K2jp/59K50= X-Received: by 2002:a25:d251:0:b0:b8b:f584:6b73 with SMTP id j78-20020a25d251000000b00b8bf5846b73mr5168351ybg.10.1681598611606; Sat, 15 Apr 2023 15:43:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87edp1rs25.fsf@allofthis.mail-host-address-is-not-set> In-Reply-To: From: Eduardo Ochs Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2023 19:43:18 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: A dream? To: George Mauer , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2c; envelope-from=eduardoochs@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1681598654; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=L8Bulv3gR1vA4NQbOAGxwfztshPnDZ57tW0aM5ejxMWthCjyJBkV+WQC0OanTtKXtSxw7g M9hwhVvJSg/v/aReO0Db3YNLBGhqS4UmOmFvesbaykAVU8YmcnPSqrnkQtHaOomK98JeC2 MMqFoEFd+2sDbHmJWIGFDN9CIAhCK8uTFPsq7Z0UiX/Ybx0tXTgaKd+iLcwNOGklZJ9OU5 TXjQ7OmbdUvXnfwQK9eeAvr+CpKh3irUGs+Q5yAnZjG0adsD7JsmGoFXN0v2rEQheWEcUj HlIAa4hqsN/cZXOSWCbRM2FmqgAAicBKJ8bSAFP81a3TY1NRm47QkMREzfXY0A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20221208 header.b=Adn+rbzz; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1681598654; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=U4id8zUTWNAoJPznwO2SVQ4zgjwrXG1vu7udIdQsyiQ=; b=e2bB9ZIi3VZZDOgyuOSw0pTv/DPM0aBIEeYQxKVVfD6nxlsv6vElJx3IkSYQPdqHRNx2KV G30QaCfikhaHyUsub3jLqmZ0LoCFrzJEhLg5NzMnSogVDMSPyugfUV8aT+g89+LyptaVJE PtopmKj/IQ48tLAIbnrpzijB9Zee618iNi1SaNG6VApPESnv9YJFbHZMU+/Wk4dQoxrgiJ SOMBlsiVZ+VpyVnKyfxOxl59EvaQqIfhcYrvn3c8zKBMpjj7o9UQWAxL5M3x0NW+P6l4PO JBN4dxuwmKQZPKqv0Aebtydi5qGT21Lh5KEiDc+sa1IXJTINOnt1LudhKTB52Q== X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.95 X-Spam-Score: -3.95 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 512A23E132 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20221208 header.b=Adn+rbzz; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com X-TUID: RkhvfnmQCaAK On Sat, 15 Apr 2023 at 16:19, Jean Louis wrote: > > * George Mauer [2023-04-03 18:17]: > > Emacs is a complex tool that itself can take a semester or more to get > > productive in. I know I myself tried for years to move to it and was only > > able to after learning vim bindings pretty well, and starting to use > > Spacemacs. Forcing students to use emacs, much less org - especially in > > this day and age where students *will* ask online, and *will* get a > > response of "no one actually uses that" - will probably meet with a ton of > > resistance. > > We have got no problem to let staff members use Emacs in East > Africa. I have not get any protest yet, people are interested. > > I have seen American surgeon and his brother from university totally > delighted with the usage of Emacs and "how everything works in one > program". They kept asking what is it. > > Here is how to verify usability of Emacs, once you verify it, let us > know: > > Usability 101: Introduction to Usability: > https://www.nngroup.com/articles/usability-101-introduction-to-usability/ > > How Many Test Users in a Usability Study?: > https://www.nngroup.com/articles/how-many-test-users/ > > Usability Testing 101: > https://www.nngroup.com/articles/usability-testing-101/ Hi Jean, do you have a page in https://gnu.support/ explaining in detail how you teach Emacs to beginners? It would be nice to have something like that... Btw, I've taught Emacs to beginners many times, but as "Emacs-the- Lisp-environment", not as "Emacs-the-editor"... in some cases, like in LaTeX workshops, lots of students who had never used Emacs before were happily writing their own one-line elisp hyperlinks and defuns after just one hour, but in some other cases my approach failed miserably... Cheers, Eduardo Ochs http://anggtwu.net/#eev http://anggtwu.net/eev-intros/find-eev-quick-intro.html http://anggtwu.net/eev-intros/find-elisp-intro.html