From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Tim Cross Subject: Re: org 9.2.6 and org 9.1.9 Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 08:51:03 +1100 Message-ID: References: <7D2A3D8D-CB71-4B0D-8839-9633BD9F9C4B@traduction-libre.org> <874kyqcuup.fsf@alphaville.usersys.redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f07dc105985afecb" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44995) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ia5DV-0006lg-Bk for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:51:22 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ia5DT-00055a-Ff for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:51:21 -0500 In-Reply-To: List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" To: "Cook, Malcolm" Cc: Nick Dokos , Org-mode , Stefan Monnier , Emacs developers --000000000000f07dc105985afecb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> But I don't think the issue is with package.el per se. > Maybe it needs fixes elsewhere as well, but it's via package.el that the > problem is usually exposed. Yes, but I think that is mainly because that is the most common way people install it. The manual is fairly clear on this - don't install org-mode vai package.el if you have already visited an org file (or loaded org-functionality). Package.el does make it worse as it may install org as a dependency rather than as a result of an explicit request from the user. >> You get the same problem if you try to install org-mode manually >> without package.el. > Depends how you do it. True. If you build it using 'make' it is in a separate environment, using batch and avoiding your init.el, so no issues. It has been mentioned a few times in this thread that issues need to be reported so that they can be logged as bugs and fixed. Unfortunately, this is very difficult as the package.el installation does not fail. Everything appears to have worked fine and even when you then start working with org afterwards, it can appear to all be fine until you try some action, at which point you get an error. This may not happen for hours, days or even in a later session, so the connection between installation and problem is lost. On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 04:20, Cook, Malcolm wrote: > Hi Stefan, > > > > I don=E2=80=99t think I=E2=80=99ve ever seen a root-cause analysis, but I= =E2=80=99ve seen many > problems that are resolved by some version of a =E2=80=9Cclean build=E2= =80=9D of org. Here > are some: > > > > - [[ > https://lists.defectivebydesign.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2012-09/ms= g01365.html][Installing > Org through the new http://orgmode.org ELPA]] > > - [[ > https://lists.defectivebydesign.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-08/ms= g00316.html][latest > org from Elpa error: Invalid function: org-babel-header-a]] > > - [[ > https://lists.defectivebydesign.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-08/ms= g00318.html][Re: > [O] wrong type argument listp... org-element-set-contents]] > > > > That's what I got. > > > > BTW: I now use org-plus-contrib in place of org with this mantra: > > > > (add-to-list 'package-archives '("org" . "http://orgmode.org/elpa/") t) > > (use-package org > ;org-plus-contrib ; instead of > org-mode > > :ensure org-plus-contrib ; following > http://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/7890/org-plus-contrib-and-org-wi= th-require-or-use-package > > ) > > > > - Cheers > > Malcolm > > > > > Here's what I do, at the shell: > > > > > > > > emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require 'package) (add-to-list > > 'package-archives '(\"org\" . \"http://orgmode.org/elpa/\ > ";)) > > (package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install > > 'org-plus-contrib))" > > I can't blame you for using such workarounds, but it would *really* help > if you could report the actual problems encountered (and then use the > workaround until we fix the source of the problem). > > > Stefan > --=20 regards, Tim -- Tim Cross --000000000000f07dc105985afecb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> But I don't think th= e issue is with package.el per se.

 > Maybe it needs fixes elsewhere as well, but it's via package.el th= at the
> problem is usually exposed.

Yes, but I think that is mainl= y because that is the most common way people install it. The manual is fair= ly clear on this - don't install org-mode vai package.el if you have al= ready visited an org file (or loaded org-functionality). Package.el does ma= ke it worse as it may install org as a dependency rather than as a result o= f an explicit request from the user.

>> You get the same problem if you try to install org-mode manually >> without package.el.

> Depends how you do it.
<= br>
True. If you build it using 'make' it is in a separat= e environment, using batch and avoiding your init.el, so no issues.

It has been mentioned a few times in this thread tha= t issues need to be reported so that they can be logged as bugs and fixed. = Unfortunately, this is very difficult as the package.el installation does n= ot fail. Everything appears to have worked fine and even when you then star= t working with org afterwards, it can appear to all be fine until you try s= ome action, at which point you get an error. This may not happen for hours,= days or even in a later session, so the connection between installation an= d problem is lost.

On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 04:20, Cook, Malcolm <MEC@stowers.org> wrote:

Hi Stefan,<= /u>

=C2=A0<= /p>

I don=E2=80=99t think= I=E2=80=99ve ever seen a root-cause analysis, but I=E2=80=99ve seen many p= roblems that are resolved by some version of a =E2=80=9Cclean build=E2=80= =9D of org.=C2=A0 Here are some:

=C2=A0<= /p>

- [[https://lists.defectivebydesign.org/= archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2012-09/msg01365.html][Installing Org throug= h the new http://orgmode.o= rg ELPA]]

- [[https://lists.defectivebydesign.org/arch= ive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-08/msg00316.html][latest org from Elpa erro= r: Invalid function: org-babel-header-a]]

- [[https://lists.defectivebydesign.org/archive/= html/emacs-orgmode/2015-08/msg00318.html][Re: [O] wrong type argument l= istp... org-element-set-contents]]

=C2=A0<= /p>

That's what I got= .

=C2=A0<= /p>

BTW: I now use org-pl= us-contrib in place of org with this mantra:

=C2=A0<= /p>

(add-to-list 'pac= kage-archives '("org" . "http://orgmode.org/elpa/") t)

(use-package=C2=A0 or= g ;org-plus-contrib=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ; instead of org-mode<= /u>

=C2=A0 :ensure org-pl= us-contrib ; following http://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/7890/org-plus-contrib-and-org-with= -require-or-use-package

)

=C2=A0<= /p>

- Cheers

Malcolm

=C2=A0

> Here's what I do, at the shell:
>
>
>
> emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require 'package) (add-to-list=
> 'package-archives '(\"org\" . \"http://orgmode.org/elpa/\"= <http://orgmod= e.org/elpa/%22>;))
> (package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install
> 'org-plus-contrib))"

I can't blame you for using such workarounds, but it would *really* hel= p
if you could report the actual problems encountered (and then use the
workaround until we fix the source of the problem).


Stefan



--
regards,

Tim=

--
Tim Cross

--000000000000f07dc105985afecb--