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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1637979259; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=5/9AfkNgfJXrYjO9kF0Y9gmuNQi95SbVJQpxICftohA=; b=VJ5+6CplxFDJERn08MkLgca225fBu4YbGUAGCtdVbtpGVvOe1W7VpVdRpTubbcsmEmey1N ugSl2ZTJrV9kwgZx8h5jbd+ldQvbC5RJSkOnh1t+ew5NoklfBmdYTkCjklnaH/eosQ7GR7 dcq9ljuGNl55+OM73R7bck8trnlP5xaeCFi4xZi/Hh7SRPw7brxA1+OSbSSaOswRtvz35V OCKAXE3d3BFLLX+EH50N0ag/jpqGlVn8xoOodxTjKplSTIeq6e5/u/gs8YWKen89H52f72 g8cEReTmtqL/4cRo/X9qhgOfB9X9WIm8ODzy1BxNsIvuS25ldO1jdfqw6z8Y7A== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1637979259; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=DeA3sSaPnGAhhuv7YYaDrq7U4ZocyV0lwEyqPYotdxN4vrXQH0AxxxLbbnEEZp1L4wHJbA 839/mBJ3yS/0bh4FbuUFv7JgLyQ3dNcqr/I50+vrcHK2UHWtQo/WThyMFf4vJpWZT7wNgY g+eSf3SDf7SXaUm71Xb1IAmuNm/NZNTW789gcuQdmOY28zLLsP5Wf+QqtAE3jXdxK5l8TG lxkJR5CbaWeObVR0+fijOr+TQmSE3Of7zZkwR7DEzi6wtdqORxpQdB+z5MZwL9BPGUmupa /Ta3mRP8Y6r6PV2BxAdBAYA7+MbMcSU3Sadpwci9XtJaowiQzsnIGyy7W6gbGA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=ZeTEW6l3; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.10 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=ZeTEW6l3; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 5F1F52DAFE X-Spam-Score: -4.10 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: ot+yUyiTfOOl --000000000000b11f9805d1bbc1f8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > Why do you think that Org mode permits changing the planning keywords? Why do you believe my or anyone else's nomenclature would be wrong? What makes Org Mode right and others' terms wrong? I am assuming you're being genuine with your reply but it comes off as if "Org mode and its authors know better than its users" when this is in stark violation of how free software works. Org Mode's terminology is not correct for me and I am sure dozens of others (see the very issue around "SCHEDULED" in and of itself requiring auxiliary notes/documentation explaining that "SCHEDULED" doesn't mean "scheduled" but something completely different). Users should never feel that the programs run them but rather that they run the program. Nobody wants to use software that forces them to use wrong or incorrect terminology for different nomenclatures. > we should use org-element-deadline-keyword and org-element-scheduled-keyword instead. I do not necessarily care where it is organized or what the variable names are called but just that as a user, it can be changed and the UI/UX can be kept consistent with how the user wants it and intends it. There's no reason to arbitrarily dictate to users "You _MUST_ use _these terms_ and not any other" other than trying to restrict a user's freedom to have the software work for them or limiting their ability to change it to meet their needs. If I have to manually fork off Org Mode to fix something then I will, but if a simple variable like `org-scheduled-string` or `org-deadline-string` could be implemented and used to provide a user centric experience that suits how _users_ need their software to work for them then that is clearly so much better. Perhaps the Org Mode team should consider this when making changes like removing UI/UX functionality. If Org Mode did not have the ability to change things like what "TODO" keywords people used or what phraseology they want for dates and times then it would not be nearly as powerful as it is. Thanks, Matt M. On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 5:41 AM Ihor Radchenko wrote: > Matt Micheletti writes: > > > ... > > do not respect the usage of the org-scheduled-string or > org-deadline-string > > values when prompting the user to enter a schedule or deadline timestamp > > leading to confusion amongst the inconsistent UI/UX when those strings > are > > changed (as Org Mode permits). > > Why do you think that Org mode permits changing the planning keywords? > This part of syntax is not meant to be changed. See > https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html > > > Recommend changing to > > > > ``` > > (defun org-add-planning-info (what &optional time &rest remove) > > ;; Omitted for brevity... > > ;; If necessary, get the time from the user > > (or time (org-read-date nil 'to-time nil > > (cl-case what > > (deadline org-deadline-string) > > (scheduled org-scheduled-string) > > (otherwise nil)) > > default-time default-input))))) > > ``` > > This is a good idea, though we should use org-element-deadline-keyword > and org-element-scheduled-keyword instead. > Generally, we need to obsolete org-deadline-string and friends in favour > of constants defined in org-element.el > > I think Nicolas is already working on this task. > > Best, > Ihor > --000000000000b11f9805d1bbc1f8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Why do you think that Org mode = permits changing the planning keywords?
Why do you believe my or = anyone else's nomenclature=C2=A0would be wrong? What makes Org Mode rig= ht and others' terms wrong? I am assuming you're being genuine=C2= =A0with your reply but it comes off as if "Org mode and its authors kn= ow better than its users" when this is in stark violation of how free = software works. Org Mode's terminology is not correct for me and I am s= ure dozens of others (see the very issue around "SCHEDULED" in an= d of itself requiring=C2=A0auxiliary notes/documentation explaining that &q= uot;SCHEDULED" doesn't mean "scheduled" but something co= mpletely different). Users should never feel that the programs run them but= rather that they run the=C2=A0program. Nobody wants to use software that f= orces them to use wrong or incorrect terminology=C2=A0for different nomencl= atures.

> we should use org-element-deadline-ke= yword and org-element-scheduled-keyword instead.
I do not necessa= rily care where it is organized or what=C2=A0the variable names are called = but just that as a user, it can be changed and the UI/UX can be kept consis= tent with how the user wants it and intends it. There's no reason to ar= bitrarily dictate to users "You _MUST_ use _these terms_ and not any o= ther" other than trying to restrict a user's freedom to have the s= oftware work for them or limiting their ability to change it to meet their = needs. If I have to manually fork off Org Mode to fix something then I will= , but if a simple variable like `org-scheduled-string` or `org-deadline-str= ing` could be implemented and used to provide a user centric=C2=A0experienc= e that suits how _users_ need their software to work for them then that is = clearly so much better. Perhaps the Org Mode team should consider this when= making changes like removing UI/UX functionality. If Org Mode did not have= the ability to change things like what "TODO" keywords people us= ed or what phraseology they want for dates and times then it would not be n= early as powerful as it is.

Thanks,
Matt= M.

On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 5:41 AM Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> wrote:
Matt Micheletti <mattdmicheletti@gmail.com> writes:

> ...
> do not respect the usage of the org-scheduled-string or org-deadline-s= tring
> values when prompting the user to enter a schedule or deadline timesta= mp
> leading to confusion amongst the inconsistent UI/UX when those strings= are
> changed (as Org Mode permits).

Why do you think that Org mode permits changing the planning keywords?
This part of syntax is not meant to be changed. See
https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html

> Recommend changing to
>
>=C2=A0 ```
> (defun org-add-planning-info (what &optional time &rest remove= )
> ;; Omitted for brevity...
> ;; If necessary, get the time from the user
> (or time (org-read-date nil 'to-time nil
> (cl-case what
> (deadline org-deadline-string)
> (scheduled org-scheduled-string)
> (otherwise nil))
> default-time default-input)))))
> ```

This is a good idea, though we should use org-element-deadline-keyword
and org-element-scheduled-keyword instead.
Generally, we need to obsolete org-deadline-string and friends in favour of constants defined in org-element.el

I think Nicolas is already working on this task.

Best,
Ihor
--000000000000b11f9805d1bbc1f8--