From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id iK6OJp+0iWPiqwAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 02 Dec 2022 09:17:35 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id kP1QJp+0iWNwIwAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 02 Dec 2022 09:17:35 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 843582DAE4 for ; Fri, 2 Dec 2022 09:17:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p11E0-0002jB-BN; Fri, 02 Dec 2022 03:16:48 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p11DY-0002aR-8n for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Dec 2022 03:16:26 -0500 Received: from mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2b]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p11DW-0002RN-5z; Fri, 02 Dec 2022 03:16:19 -0500 Received: by mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com with SMTP id c140so5123332ybf.11; Fri, 02 Dec 2022 00:16:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=aNHYPzKCKoJfP2NxnzO1iY0W7eNNKNV+PkwuzgaY4QI=; b=AOSg8F42pD3DxQ5PN+bFJtI6EOq2OFOHRTf7BEy8iM0SrWcJuC4Neg3U1BTmye4A68 URj0bncMwX4vX7nk2intZdezMNczoHScbjE3hXWpGaIGPsDCtoLbODa5rpEwQBWFAxFX GpOvqzr0s1AunYtDmC1J4XGEoOJBnsrbd87ky+DVqUPY4hvswu+Pduip+og7+iBGvjFZ cuAyUJskgMj3hIHlIpU7gSy21pOEYtRAys2QpRpgs5pJWzs6Ip4oRJt/NXGo0hPJoBVo lyHsOJD46EwSEtBwe2CtOwY10e05Q31GzfrZy+BxOWcFG+2hXWAhF7I4p1n36ecqIvhl nUmg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=aNHYPzKCKoJfP2NxnzO1iY0W7eNNKNV+PkwuzgaY4QI=; b=iVstfmCvVWgAbtBpnAjwDCFDMKSF88Ye3X16oVHQ6hIiXeU0Ws2zc7Lum96hXRSJ2+ vW4GQj+te0Dwo6YAZ4egTinccDWZtxKewuTp/ODMCp9EXy5zATADr9anp5noTmgMDgRy B77VYT3geB/9QWJbD8AEjIAPtRoSCHh1BykXFHx3nFX/NlHuzZZIuKza60lvfTn126yg HSkLBQR+N0I2Z5Afs6a4LfDbR4VDNiX4OZ6ZzH9kYC1CXEGNl4Ss7kGF+jcdTXv2aKur 64cHfu/uFK0YxjZOIPtyUFMvYKmON5yFqlqw1ngtb174Cfq7oOcuCwVd9r1L9dKcyCrV Yl0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pn43CY11tZsGo4s27KTO4sS7BZ62InMEG9BDWtaZMciYukUNLCo AV4QnRnRCvIJ1X4xEC/ffWHFGbLELk3iOhSokB0/4wU7HIM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf6cPuqx9bJHjmVdwfx5VxNt+0qn5bZONKHekm75SmaYVDrccyKJ5HLvYD7yLUHeCKNpVPaY6Blsb8LzMeiOHyI= X-Received: by 2002:a5b:404:0:b0:6e8:6097:1264 with SMTP id m4-20020a5b0404000000b006e860971264mr49159272ybp.392.1669968976078; Fri, 02 Dec 2022 00:16:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <875yhsujkq.fsf@localhost> <87h71ct10n.fsf@localhost> <87tu5bbajh.fsf@localhost> <87r10ey8ov.fsf@localhost> <87o7v4dvon.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmfijrvw.fsf@localhost> <87y1u4ec18.fsf@gnu.org> <871qqnjjdw.fsf@localhost> <87zgd85vc9.fsf@localhost> In-Reply-To: From: Tom Gillespie Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2022 00:16:04 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: org-assert-version considered harmful To: "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" Cc: Bastien , Ihor Radchenko , Stefan Monnier , Ihor Radchenko Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2b; envelope-from=tgbugs@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-TUID: WqMqkFJucE6K Sorry to be so late chiming in here. I've only now encountered this due to the 9.6 release. In short, org-assert-version is an absolute disaster for me. At the very least org-assert-version should be non-fatal by default. Without going into too much detail, an orgstrap shebang block is forced to use the system installed version of org because it is intended to work in the absence of an init.el file, or before an init.el file can ever be loaded. This means that if a newer version of org is installed then no code can ever run again after that package is visible on the load path because loading the newer version of org will immediately cause an error when something (e.g. ob-python) tries to require org-macs, terminating the execution of the orgstrap block prematurely. There is no simple workaround, and there is no guaranteed workaround aside from going to great lengths to only ever use the builtin version of org. I'm not going to write anything else at the moment because I've just spent the last 3+ hours trying to deal with this and am in an extremely uncharitable mood. Tom