Re: Re: keys and command name info

[Carsten Dominik <dominik@uva.nl>]

Hi Andreas,

On Aug 20, 2010, at 8:27 AM, Andreas Röhler wrote:

> Am 18.08.2010 10:38, schrieb Carsten Dominik:
>> Hi Andreas,
>>
>> this already goes in the right direction.
>>
>> I have a better definition for the macro, which does now
>> push the command name all the way to the right (in PDF output).
>> I hated the look of the command name separated by a fixed
>> number of spaces - this is a lot better.
>> Does anyone know how to do this for HTML and info?
>>
>> @macro orgcmd{key,command}
>> @iftex
>> @kindex \key\
>> @findex \command\
>> @item @kbd{\key\} @hskip 0pt plus 1filll @code{\command\}
>> @end iftex
>> @ifnottex
>> @kindex \key\
>> @findex \command\
>> @item @kbd{\key\} @tie{}@tie{}@tie{}@tie{}(@code{\command\})
>> @end ifnottex
>> @end macro
>>
>> Also, since the table is now an @asis table, lines which do not
>> have a command name like
>>
>> @item C-u C-u C-u @key{TAB}
>>
>> will need an explicit formatting command, like this:
>>
>> @item @kbd{C-u C-u C-u @key{TAB}}
>>
>> Alternatively, we could have another macro
>>
>> @macro orgkey{key}
>> @item @kbd{\key\}
>> @end macro
>>
>> so that we could write keys for which we have no command name
>> like this:
>>
>> @orgkey{C-u C-u C-u @key{TAB}}
>>
>> Hope this gets you on your way with a tideous task....
>
> Hmm,
>
> I'm afraid this starts walking the desert.
> May be it helps keeping things apart for the beginning.
>
> 1) Introducing the command names
> 2) Completing the formatting
>
> As views are different concerning the latter, thats a rather hard  
> task for me, as I can't see the progress...
>
> For me it's important seeing command names somewhere near its keys.
> If beneath or at the right, doesn't matter that much IMHO.

I am not sure what the problem is.

For keys where you have a command name, you continue as you have been  
doing.
For keys where you do not have the command names, just enclose the key  
after the @item into @kbd{...}

This should get you very far.

I am not sure if I have the most recent patch - can you
please send it again, so that I can check it?

Thanks.

- Carsten


>
>
>
>>
>> One more thing: I do frequently small changes in the manual,
>> so please make sure to update your patch to the most recent
>> version of Org.
>>
>>
>>> Please have a look at lines 1097 and 1379.
>>> Looks like an erronius replacements.
>>> As its done by a script, ...
>>
>> Well, hand checking will absolutely be necessary with this patch.
>
> Did that. Cancelled the warning already. Seems you didn't get the  
> mail.
>
> What about checkin in the patch as it's done so far?
>
> Andreas
>
>
>> Hope you can do as much as possible of that as well, maybe with
>> comments in the text to get my attention to certain places.
>>
>> - Carsten
>>
>> On Aug 17, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Andreas Röhler wrote:
>>
>>> Am 16.08.2010 10:57, schrieb Carsten Dominik:
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 15, 2010, at 9:07 PM, Andreas Röhler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Am 15.08.2010 09:39, schrieb Carsten Dominik:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 15, 2010, at 9:37 AM, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 13, 2010, at 9:30 PM, Andreas Röhler wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 11.08.2010 12:05, schrieb Carsten Dominik:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Aug 9, 2010, at 9:28 PM, Dan Davison wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Gregor Zattler <telegraph@gmx.net> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Andreas, org-mode developers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> * Andreas Burtzlaff <andy13@gmx.net> [09. Aug. 2010]:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have put a version of the manual as modified by Andreas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://orgmode.org/org-manual-with-command-names.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not all the command names are in there, but quite a few  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to hear from more people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - if they would like to have the names there (i.e. if  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help them finding a command)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would like the command names in the manual.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Emacs-lisp has a lovely tradition of naming functions  
>>>>>>>>>>> *very*
>>>>>>>>>>> descriptively and not being afraid to use long names in the
>>>>>>>>>>> interests
>>>>>>>>>>> of accuracy. It's a shame to lose all that by displaying  
>>>>>>>>>>> only key
>>>>>>>>>>> sequences. It's a linguistic world of its own and I like  
>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>> exposed
>>>>>>>>>>> to it.
>>>>>>>>>>> - While one can do C-h k, that's not the same as the way one
>>>>>>>>>>> learns the
>>>>>>>>>>> function names by skimming the manual
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Also, it does not add length to the HTML version of the  
>>>>>>>>>> manual,
>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>> the key sequences are already on a line of their own. And the
>>>>>>>>>> same is
>>>>>>>>>> true for a certain proportion of the pdf entries (when the  
>>>>>>>>>> key
>>>>>>>>>> sequence
>>>>>>>>>> is long, then it seems to go on its own line).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - if the position (first thing in the command  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> description)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is right, or if it would be better to have it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - last thing in the description
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - or after the first sentence, this is how the GNUS  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I definitely would want them out on a line of their own  
>>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>>> key
>>>>>>>>>>> sequence. I liked the right-aligned model.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Or if not right-aligned, is it possible not to have the  
>>>>>>>>>>> comma?
>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe a
>>>>>>>>>>> different font?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I also like the position on the key line best. So if there  
>>>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>>>> more-or-less
>>>>>>>>> general agreement that we should get the names in, this  
>>>>>>>>> would be my
>>>>>>>>> preferred
>>>>>>>>> location as well. I knot that this is different from what  
>>>>>>>>> the emacs
>>>>>>>>> and gnus manuals do - but I still think that a solution like  
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> be better.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Andreas, can you be bothered to rework the patch?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately I have no idea if/how the right-aligned model
>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>> made to
>>>>>>>>> work. So I think the safest way to do this would be to  
>>>>>>>>> introduce
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> macro,
>>>>>>>>> and we can then work on the macro to get the formatting  
>>>>>>>>> right, and
>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>> to do the
>>>>>>>>> key and function index stuff fully automatically.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here is my proposal for now:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> @macro orgcmd{key,command}
>>>>>>>>> @kindex \key\
>>>>>>>>> @findex \command\
>>>>>>>>> @item \key\ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @r{(}\command\@r{)}
>>>>>>>>> @end macro
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And then define keys/commands like this:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> @table @kbd
>>>>>>>>> .....
>>>>>>>>> @orgcmd{@key{TAB}, org-cycle}
>>>>>>>>> Here follows the description of the command
>>>>>>>>> ....
>>>>>>>>> @end table
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Carsten
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [ ... ]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Carsten,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> attached a sreenshot, how it comes out for C-c C-b.
>>>>>>>> Doesn't look ok for me, as back-tick and quote are uncommon  
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Andreas, you are correct, this does not look right.
>>>>>>> Seems like we will have to make the table ins @asis and
>>>>>>> then have the macro apply the formatting. Sigh... :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you do insert all the macro calls with the command names, I  
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> care of the formatting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Carsten
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> will do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let us check nonetheless a working example first.
>>>>>
>>>>> While trying to put @asis at the right place, I get error  
>>>>> messages and
>>>>> it refuses to compile.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could you re-write the example for me?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry being that stupid :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Andreas
>>>>
>>>> I mean it like this:
>>>>
>>>> @macro orgcmd{key,command}
>>>> @kindex \key\
>>>> @findex \command\
>>>> @item @kbd{\key\} @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ (@code{\command}\)
>>>> @end macro
>>>>
>>>> And then define keys/commands like this:
>>>>
>>>> @table @asis
>>>> .....
>>>> @orgcmd{C-c C-x @key{TAB}, org-cycle}
>>>> Here follows the description of the command
>>>> ....
>>>> @end table
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Does this work?
>>>>
>>>> - Carsten
>>>
>>>
>>> Think so, thanks.
>>> Patch relying upon attached.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Andreas
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
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- Carsten