Annoying behavior of RET after a timestamp

Annoying behavior of RET after a timestamp

[Nick Dokos]

There was a recent commit 8c91f690a561113eee0d16cdb6e8afc6bcae2089 to
follow a time stamp as a link. I have no problem with that but the code
uses the org-at-timestamp-p function, which (perversely IMO) thinks that
I am in a timestamp even when I'm right *after* the closing bracket; so
pressing RET after inserting a time stamp follows the link, instead of
inserting a newline. Since I do that fairly often, I find the behavior
annoying.

Can org-at-timestamp-p be taught the "correct" semantics? Or is this going
to break something else?

Thanks,
Nick

Re: Annoying behavior of RET after a timestamp

[Nick Dokos]

Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> wrote:

> There was a recent commit 8c91f690a561113eee0d16cdb6e8afc6bcae2089 to
> follow a time stamp as a link. I have no problem with that but the code
> uses the org-at-timestamp-p function, which (perversely IMO) thinks that
> I am in a timestamp even when I'm right *after* the closing bracket; so
> pressing RET after inserting a time stamp follows the link, instead of
> inserting a newline. Since I do that fairly often, I find the behavior
> annoying.
> 
> Can org-at-timestamp-p be taught the "correct" semantics? Or is this going
> to break something else?
> 

I neglected to mention that I have org-return-follows-link set to t.

So, if org-at-timestamp-p cannot be retrained, then I'll have to retrain
myself to a) either insert something after the timestamp before RET or
b) use TAB, instead of RET, to follow links (and set/reset the variables
appropriately).

Be that as it may, however, org-at-timestamp-p's behavior just feels
wrong to me.

Nick

Re: Annoying behavior of RET after a timestamp

[Samuel Wales]

FWIW, I have noticed this for a long time, actually, only worse.  If
you RET after a period after link, it still thinks it's a link.  And
the link followed is broken.

IIRC.

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

Re: Annoying behavior of RET after a timestamp

[Nick Dokos]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:

> FWIW, I have noticed this for a long time, actually, only worse.  If
> you RET after a period after link, it still thinks it's a link.  And
> the link followed is broken.
> 
> IIRC.
> 

IME, not so: I just tried RET right after a link and got a newline
inserted into the buffer.

I also tried pressing RET after a period inserted after the link (and
also after the timestamp): in both cases, RET never tried to follow the
link - it just inserted a newline.

Nick

Re: Annoying behavior of RET after a timestamp

[Samuel Wales]

WFM now too in a quick test.  However, I wanted to point out that I'm
not sure it's a new bug only, in case it's relevant to bisecting.

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

Re: Annoying behavior of RET after a timestamp

[suvayu ali]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 8:57 PM, Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:
> in case it's relevant to bisecting.

Nick already diagnosed the bug for us. :)

org-at-timestamp-p is the culprit.

-- 
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.

Re: Annoying behavior of RET after a timestamp

[Nick Dokos]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:

> WFM now too in a quick test.  However, I wanted to point out that I'm
> not sure it's a new bug only, in case it's relevant to bisecting.
> 

Well, I don't know about the link bug you remember, but the timestamp
"bug" (if it is a bug) was introduced by the following commit:

,----
| commit e01ce26c0bed630a1656fde8552e268d477326f8
| Author: Bastien Guerry <bzg@altern.org>
| Date:   Mon Aug 15 10:06:02 2011 +0200
| 
|     org.el: set `org-ts-what' correctly in `org-at-timestamp-p'.
|     
|     (org-at-timestamp-p): set `org-ts-what' in a way that point will be
|     considered to be "on the bracket" whether it is really on it or right
|     after it.
|     
|     Thanks to Matt Lundin for reporting this and to Nicolas Goaziou for
|     discussion about this.
| 
| diff --git a/lisp/org.el b/lisp/org.el
| index f40f46c..4de51b9 100644
| --- a/lisp/org.el
| +++ b/lisp/org.el
| @@ -15586,7 +15586,10 @@ (defun org-at-timestamp-p (&optional inactive-ok)
|  	 (setq org-ts-what
|  	      (cond
|  	       ((= pos (match-beginning 0))         'bracket)
| -	       ((= pos (1- (match-end 0)))          'bracket)
| +	       ;; Point is considered to be "on the bracket" whether
| +	       ;; it's really on it or right after it.
| +	       ((or (= pos (1- (match-end 0)))
| +                    (= pos (match-end 0)))          'bracket)
|  	       ((org-pos-in-match-range pos 2)      'year)
|  	       ((org-pos-in-match-range pos 3)      'month)
|  	       ((org-pos-in-match-range pos 7)      'hour)
`----

I haven't gone to gmane looking for the discussion, but if one of the
principals involved remembers the reason, maybe they can enlighten us.

Thanks,
Nick

Re: Annoying behavior of RET after a timestamp

[Nick Dokos]

Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> wrote:

> ...
>
> I haven't gone to gmane looking for the discussion, but if one of the
> principals involved remembers the reason, maybe they can enlighten us.
> 

I found the discussion on gmane - check the thread starting at

   http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/45243

Nick

Re: Annoying behavior of RET after a timestamp

[Nick Dokos]

Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> wrote:

> Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> wrote:
> 
> > ...
> >
> > I haven't gone to gmane looking for the discussion, but if one of the
> > principals involved remembers the reason, maybe they can enlighten us.
> > 
> 
> I found the discussion on gmane - check the thread starting at
> 
>    http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/45243
> 

Having read the discussion, I agree with Nicolas and disagree with Matt
and Bastien :-)

Nick

Re: Annoying behavior of RET after a timestamp

[Samuel Wales]

I really shouldn't have posted.  You are all talking about timestamps.
 I was talking about links.

Re: Annoying behavior of RET after a timestamp

[Matt Lundin]

Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:

> Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> wrote:
>
>> Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > ...
>> >
>> > I haven't gone to gmane looking for the discussion, but if one of the
>> > principals involved remembers the reason, maybe they can enlighten us.
>> > 
>> 
>> I found the discussion on gmane - check the thread starting at
>> 
>>    http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/45243
>> 
>
> Having read the discussion, I agree with Nicolas and disagree with Matt
> and Bastien :-)

Let me chime in here: I agree that the new behavior (i.e., following a
link with return) is unworkable with the current definition of
org-at-timestamp-p. 

My concern in the previous thread was to preserved what I viewed as a
convenience that dated back to the earliest days of org: i.e., being
able to change timestamps quickly with the S-arrow keys. I would still
prefer to retain a "wide" definition of timestamps for the S-arrow keys.

But if a little traditional usability is lost for the sake of
consistency, then we should change org-at-timestamp-p. (And Nicolas has
done heroic work in bringing consistency to the definition of various
org elements!)

Best,
Matt

Re: Annoying behavior of RET after a timestamp

[Bastien]

Hi Matt,

Matt Lundin <mdl@imapmail.org> writes:

> But if a little traditional usability is lost for the sake of
> consistency, then we should change org-at-timestamp-p. (And Nicolas has
> done heroic work in bringing consistency to the definition of various
> org elements!)

FWIW, I didn't change the behavior/output of `org-at-timestamp-p', I've
used `org-ts-what', which stores information on what place we are in the
matched timestamp.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Annoying behavior of RET after a timestamp

[Bastien]

Hi Nick,

Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:

> There was a recent commit 8c91f690a561113eee0d16cdb6e8afc6bcae2089 to
> follow a time stamp as a link. I have no problem with that but the code
> uses the org-at-timestamp-p function, which (perversely IMO) thinks that
> I am in a timestamp even when I'm right *after* the closing bracket; so
> pressing RET after inserting a time stamp follows the link, instead of
> inserting a newline. Since I do that fairly often, I find the behavior
> annoying.

I agree this can be annoying.  The behavior is now to insert a new line
when the point is right after the timestamp.

Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Annoying behavior of RET after a timestamp

[Nick Dokos]

Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> wrote:

> Hi Nick,
> 
> Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:
> 
> > There was a recent commit 8c91f690a561113eee0d16cdb6e8afc6bcae2089 to
> > follow a time stamp as a link. I have no problem with that but the code
> > uses the org-at-timestamp-p function, which (perversely IMO) thinks that
> > I am in a timestamp even when I'm right *after* the closing bracket; so
> > pressing RET after inserting a time stamp follows the link, instead of
> > inserting a newline. Since I do that fairly often, I find the behavior
> > annoying.
> 
> I agree this can be annoying.  The behavior is now to insert a new line
> when the point is right after the timestamp.
> 

Thanks! The annoyance is gone.

Nick

HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Samuel Wales]

I want to blog to blogger.com using org, but I am not yet up
to trying org-googlecl.el.  I will in the future, but don't
want to go through the setup now.

So I want to paste org-generated HTML into Blogger.  But my
first attempt did not work.  I highlighted the region,
exported to HTML, and pasted into the text box on Blogger.
It said:

  Your HTML cannot be accepted: Tag is not allowed: HTML

What do I need to change to make this work?

===

Also, org put the date (in two places) and the author in the
generated HTML code.  I don't want to export those, not even
in the code.  I looked for org-export-with- variables and
did not find ones that matched.

How do I prevent their export?

Thanks.


Samuel

-- 
Q: How many CDC "scientists" does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: "You only think it's dark." [CDC has denied a deadly serious
disease for 25 years]
==========
HIV-like virus: http://www.wpinstitute.org/xmrv/index.html -- PLEASE DONATE
===
I want to see the original (pre-hold) Lo et al. 2010 NIH/FDA/Harvard MLV paper.

Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Nick Dokos]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:

> ... 
> Also, org put the date (in two places) and the author in the
> generated HTML code.  I don't want to export those, not even
> in the code.  I looked for org-export-with- variables and
> did not find ones that matched.
> 
> How do I prevent their export?
> 

The following only takes care of the postamble author/date/email/creator
insertions, but maybe that's enough? That's one place where a date is
inserted, but I'm not sure where the other one is: the <meta> information
perhaps?

In any case, inserting

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
#+BIND: org-export-html-auto-postamble nil
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

in the file, or setting :auto-postamble to nil in the publishing
project alist, will not export the standard postamble at all. 

Or you can use the BIND mechanism with

   org-export-author-info (and subordinately org-export-email-info)
   org-export-time-stamp-file
   org-export-creator-info
   org-export-html-validation-link
   org-export-html-with-timestamp

for finer control.

HTH,
Nick

Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Samuel Wales]

Hi Nick,

That did not work for me.  I did this:

  (setf org-export-html-auto-postamble nil)
  (setf org-export-time-stamp-file nil)

These are all nil.

  org-export-author-info
  org-export-email-info
  org-export-creator-info
  org-export-html-validation-link
  org-export-html-with-timestamp

I did not use publishing for this.  Should I?

Thanks.


Samuel

Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Nick Dokos]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:


> That did not work for me.  I did this:
> 
>   (setf org-export-html-auto-postamble nil)
>   (setf org-export-time-stamp-file nil)
> 
> These are all nil.
> 
>   org-export-author-info
>   org-export-email-info
>   org-export-creator-info
>   org-export-html-validation-link
>   org-export-html-with-timestamp
> 
> I did not use publishing for this.  Should I?
> 

I don't know why it didn't work for you.

I did not use publishing either, just exported an org file to HTML. In
my case, setting the variable in lisp, using the #+BIND: method or using
John's #+OPTIONS: author:nil method worked, in the sense that the
exported HTML file did not have a postamble at all or, with John's
method, the postamble did not include the author.

OTOH, the <meta> information in the preamble always includes the author,
etc. The only way to not have *that* included is to export the <body>
only, either by writing your own elisp to call org-export-as-html with
the appropriate arguments, or by giving a prefix argument to
org-export-region-as-html.

HTH,
Nick

Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[John Hendy]

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Hi Samuel,


I've been blogging with org-mode for a while and like it a lot. Let's me
keep my blog posts in an org file for retention but still provides a
convenient way to post to html. See this page of the manual for getting rid
of a lot of other stuff: http://orgmode.org/manual/Export-options.html. For
example, you can set some lines like this in your header:

#+options: author:nil email:nil

My publishing routine goes like this... Write up some text:

* heading
** subheading for export
blah blah blah blah

- Highlight "blah blah blah blah"
- C-c C-e R to export the region
- In the new buffer created I delete everything from < html > to the text I
want as well as the closing < /html >. I use C-x C-w to save that buffer to
a file called export.txt
- I open up a command line and run perl -pi -e ' s/\R/ /g; s/\<p\>//g;
s/\<\/p\>/\n\n/g;'  export.txt
- I go back to emacs and do C-x C-f export.txt and tell it to reload and
then copy that into blogger

The perl command gets rid of < p > tags and since I run org in Fill mode it
gets ride of the badly placed line breaks so everything is continuous. It's
been working pretty good for me. I might need to optimize the perl. It's
been a little bit since I used it but I recall it puts an extra space at the
beginning of paragraphs or something.

I'm sure there's some function I can't recall to get rid of the < html >
heading but I can't recall what it is offhand. It's in the mailing list
archives somewhere. For now my blogging is low enough that I don't mind
stripping it off myself.


John

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 4:05 PM, Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:

> I want to blog to blogger.com using org, but I am not yet up
> to trying org-googlecl.el.  I will in the future, but don't
> want to go through the setup now.
>
> So I want to paste org-generated HTML into Blogger.  But my
> first attempt did not work.  I highlighted the region,
> exported to HTML, and pasted into the text box on Blogger.
> It said:
>
>  Your HTML cannot be accepted: Tag is not allowed: HTML
>
> What do I need to change to make this work?
>
> ===
>
> Also, org put the date (in two places) and the author in the
> generated HTML code.  I don't want to export those, not even
> in the code.  I looked for org-export-with- variables and
> did not find ones that matched.
>
> How do I prevent their export?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Samuel
>
> --
> Q: How many CDC "scientists" does it take to change a lightbulb?
> A: "You only think it's dark." [CDC has denied a deadly serious
> disease for 25 years]
> ==========
> HIV-like virus: http://www.wpinstitute.org/xmrv/index.html -- PLEASE
> DONATE
> ===
> I want to see the original (pre-hold) Lo et al. 2010 NIH/FDA/Harvard MLV
> paper.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

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Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Samuel Wales]

Hi John,

On 2010-11-11, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
> #+options: author:nil email:nil

I presume that this is the same as what I tried in elisp.  That did not work.

Thanks for your detail of your publishing routine.  That helps me know
what the state of the art is.

It looks like org can't yet export to whatever it is that Blogger
requires.  So I will just paste in plain text and forget about
formatting and emphasis for now.  I am limited in typing so doing that
by hand is beyond what I can do.

> - C-c C-e R to export the region

A documentation note: the manual has me confused about these:

===
C-c C-e H
    Export to a temporary buffer, do not create a file.
C-c C-e R
    Export the active region to a temporary buffer. With a
    prefix argument, do not produce the file header and
    footer, but just the plain HTML section for the region.
    This is good for cut-and-paste operations.
===

I expected the former to detect an active region.  Also it wasn't
clear at first that it operated on the whole file instead of a
subtree.  I expected something like "subtree unless prefix arg or
active region" for a single command.

Thanks.


Samuel

Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[John Hendy]

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On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> On 2010-11-11, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
> > #+options: author:nil email:nil
>
>
That should be in your actual .org file. See below.


> I presume that this is the same as what I tried in elisp.  That did not
> work.
>
> Thanks for your detail of your publishing routine.  That helps me know
> what the state of the art is.
>
> It looks like org can't yet export to whatever it is that Blogger
> requires.  So I will just paste in plain text and forget about
> formatting and emphasis for now.  I am limited in typing so doing that
> by hand is beyond what I can do.
>
>
Your call. I really don't endure much with this. Also, see below as your
comment actually refreshed my mind about how easy this really is.


> > - C-c C-e R to export the region
>
> A documentation note: the manual has me confused about these:
>
> ===
> C-c C-e H
>    Export to a temporary buffer, do not create a file.
> C-c C-e R
>     Export the active region to a temporary buffer. With a
>    prefix argument, do not produce the file header and
>    footer, but just the plain HTML section for the region.
>    This is good for cut-and-paste operations.
> ===
>
> I expected the former to detect an active region.  Also it wasn't
> clear at first that it operated on the whole file instead of a
> subtree.  I expected something like "subtree unless prefix arg or
> active region" for a single command.
>
>
Yes! I didn't remember this. The "prefix argument" is C-u (in case you did
not know that... I had no idea when I first saw that). This works
fantastically. *That's* how I was doing it when I was really in the groove.
So, here's my updated method:

- Write some stuff
- Select it (move to beginning of what you want, C-space, move to end of
what you want)
- C-u C-c C-e R to export that region with no preamble to a separate buffer
- C-x C-w export.txt
- to terminal: perl -pi -e ' s/\R/ /g; s/\<p\>//g; s/\<\/p\>/\n\n/g;'
 export.txt
- back to emacs: C-x C-f export.txt; type "yes"
- M-< to go to front of buffer, C-space, M-> to go to end, M-w to copy
- Paste into basic blogger edit box
- Done

Re. the first part... just take this and save it as an org file in an emacs
buffer.

-------
#+AUTHOR:    Samuel Wales
#+OPTIONS:   toc:nil *:t tags:nil author:nil email:nil

* Heading 1
** Sub Heading 1
Start. Here is some text that I am writing to test exporting. Here is some
text that I am writing to test exporting. Here is some text that I am
writing to test exporting. Here is some text that I am writing to test
exporting. Here is some text that I am writing to test exporting. Here
is some text that I am writing to test exporting. Here is some text
that I am writing to test exporting. End.
--------------

Then do the above with the blob from: "Start. Here is..." ---> "...to test
exporting. End."


John


Thanks.
>
>
> Samuel
>

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Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Samuel Wales]

Hi John,

Well, I can try something I should have tried before.  Unfill the
region (which probably does not always work, but might work enough of
the time) and then export the region.  It does look like exporting the
region can be done without any of the export- variables set.  Then
perl and a file won't be necessary.

On 2010-11-11, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > #+options: author:nil email:nil
>>
>>
> That should be in your actual .org file. See below.

The question was actually why the elisp equivalent did not work.
Again, however, it looks moot.

Thanks everybody.


Samuel

Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Eric S Fraga]

Hi,

Just for completeness, in case others that haven't started blogging yet,
but would like to, and are following this thread, org supports blogging
to http://wordpress.com/ very easily.  Check out, for instance, the blog
post by Sacha Chua:

: http://sachachua.com/blog/2010/09/new-note-taking-workflow-with-emacs-org-mode/

where she talks about =org2blog=.  I've been using
=org2blog-post-subtree=, in particular, very effectively.

Sorry for hijacking the thread to some degree but I moved from Blogger
to Wordpress because of the more open nature of the latter and I believe
this fits with the philosophy of org.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 23.2.1
: using Org-mode version 7.3 (release_7.3.42.g0fd5ec)

Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Samuel Wales]

Hi Eric,

On 2010-11-12, Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
> Sorry for hijacking the thread to some degree but I moved from Blogger
> to Wordpress because of the more open nature of the latter and I believe
> this fits with the philosophy of org.

I don't think it's a hijacking; many will want to know about other options.

I /started/ with Wordpress.com (their blogger.com-like site) because
of its apparent open philosophy.

But I switched away from them because of their hostile attitude toward
accessibility bug reports, including large fonts.  They claim to value
accessibility highly, but their actions very clearly indicate the
opposite.

It isn't so much their lack of accessibility that bothers me, as much
as their attitude toward customers.  Based on their responses, I did
not have confidence that they would support me if I had any other
showstopper issues with my blog.  I wanted a company I could have a
long-term blogging relationship with.

If I see a change in their attitude, I will consider switching back.

Of course, if you run your own site, merely use their software, and
can hack it yourself or pay somebody to do so, the attitude of their
hosting service will matter less to you.


Samuel

Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Samuel Wales]

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Well, I spoke too soon.  I don't have a solution.  Here is
what I tried.


  1) org source (my normally-preferred filled paragraphs) ->
     c-u c-c c-e R -> blogger
     - hard breaks are inserted so no filling can happen in
       published blog entry
       + if large fonts and small column, will break
         awkwardly
     - blogger result attached
  2) Unfill-region (my code below) -> c-u c-c c-e R -> blogger
     - paragraphs are separated by too many blank lines
     - an extra closing div if top headline not included
       (not really a problem)
     - unfill-region doesn't actually catch all paragraphs
       so you have to manually unfill some
  3) Unfill-region (my code below) -> manually deleting
     space between paragraphs -> c-u c-c c-e R -> blogger
     - no paragraph separation
  4) John's recipe: c-u c-c c-e R -> perl script -> blogger
     - paragraphs are separated by too many blank lines
     - blogger result attached


(defun alpha-unfill-region-or-paragraph ()
  (interactive)
  (let ((fill-column (point-max)))
    (alpha-fill-region-or-paragraph)))
(defun alpha-fill-region-or-paragraph ()
  (interactive)
  (if (hoka-org-region-active-p)
      (call-interactively #'fill-region)
    (fill-paragraph nil)))


John's recipe (I shortcutted with c-u m-|):

  1) Write some stuff
  2) Select it (move to beginning of what you want, C-space,
     move to end of what you want)
  3) C-u C-c C-e R to export that region with no preamble to
     a separate buffer
  4) C-x C-w export.txt
  5) to terminal: perl -pi -e ' s/\R/ /g; s/\<p\>//g;
s/\<\/p\>/\n\n/g;' export.txt
  6) back to emacs: C-x C-f export.txt; type "yes"
  7) M-< to go to front of buffer, C-space, M-> to go to
     end, M-w to copy
  8) Paste into basic blogger edit box
  9) Done

Org source is attached.

[-- Attachment #2: blogger-output-john.text --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 4349 bytes --]

xxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx



xxx xxxxxx xxxx xxxxx xx xxxx. xxx xxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxx xx
xxxxxx xx xxxxxxxx xxx xxxxx xx xx xx xxxx xx x xxxxx xxxxx
xxxxx. xxx xxxxxx xx x xxxxxxx.




xx xxxxx xx xxxx xxxxxx, xx x xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx
xxxxx-xxxxxx, xxx x xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxx.
xxxx xx xxxx xxxxxx xxxxx xxx x xxxx xxxx xx xx xxx xxxxx.




xx xxx xxxx x xxxx xxxx xxxxx x xxxx xxxxx, xxx xxx
xxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxx. xxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxx
xxxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxx xxxxxx, xxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxx, xxx,
xxx xxxxxx xxxxx.




x xxxxx xxxxxxx, xx xxxx, xxx xxxx xx xx.







xxx xxxxxxxx



xxxxxxx xxx xxx xxx xxxxxxxx. xx xxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxx
xxxx xx xxxx xxxx. xx xx xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxx. xxx xxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx.




xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx xx
xxxx-xxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, xxxx-xxxxx xxxx. x xxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxx xxxxxxxx, xxx xxx xxxx xx
xxx xxxxxxxx xxxxx xxx 1980x, xxxxxx xxxxxx-xx-xxxxxx xx xxx
xxx xxxx xxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxx xxxxxx xxxx xxx.




xxxxxxxx xxxxxx. xx xxx xxxxx xxxxxx, xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxx,
xxxxx xxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx, xxx xxxxxxx xxxxx xx xxxxx
xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxx, xx xxxxxxxxxx;
xxxxxxxx xxx xx xxxxxxxx xxxx; xxxx xxx.




xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxx xxx. xxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx,
xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxx
xxx xxxxxxxx; xxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx.




xxx xxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx, xxx
xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx 17 xxxxxxx. xxxxx x xxxxxxx xxx xx xxx
xxx. xxxx xx xxxxxxx xx xxx.







xx xxx'x xxxx xxxx xxxxxxx xx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxx xxxx xxxxx xx xxx/xxxx,
xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxx. xx xxxxxxxx xxxxx, x xxx
xxx xxxx xx xxx xx xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxx.




xx xxxxxxxx xxxx xx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx; xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx x xxxxxx xx xxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxx --xxxxxxx







xxxxx-xxxxxx



xxx xxx xxxxx xx xxxx xx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxx xx
xxxxx-xxxxxx.




xxxxxxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxx xx, xxx xxxx xxxxx xx, xxxxx x
xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx.
xxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xxx xx xxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxx.




xxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxx xxxxxx xx x xxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxx-xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxx xxx
xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xx xxx xxxx x xxxxxxx.




xxx xxxxxxxx xx xx xxxxxxxxx xxxxx xx xxxxx-xxxxxx xxxx xxx
xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxx x xxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxxxxx xx xx
xxxxx. xxx xxx xx xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx.
xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xxxx.




xxxxxx xxxxx xxx, xxxxxxx xxx xxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxx xxx
xxxxxxxx xx xx xxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxx.




xxx xxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxxx. xxx xxxx xxxx xxxx x xxxxxxxxx
xxxxx xxxxx xxxxxx xxxx x xxxxxxxx xxxx xx xxxx xxx xxxx xx
xxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx.







xxx xxxx



xxxx xxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxxxx-xxxxxx xxx xxx xxxxxxxx.
xxxxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxx xx.




xx xxx xxxx x xxxx xxxx xx xxx xxxxxx. x xxxxx xx xxxxxxx
xxxxx xxx xxxxxx "xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx", xxx xxxxxx xxxxx
xxxx. x xxxxxxx xx xxxxxxx xxxx xx xxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxx
x xxxx xxxxx xxxxxx, xxxxxxx x xxxx xxxx xxxxxxxx.




xxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxxx xx
xxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx.
x xxxx xx xx xxxx xx xxxxxxx xxxx, xxx x xxxxxx xxxx xxxx
xxxxx xx. xxxx xxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxx xxx
xxxxxxxx.




xx xxx xxx, xxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xx "xxx xxxxx
xxxxxxxx" xx xxxxxxxxxx, xxx xxx xxx, x xxxx xxxxxx xx xxxx
xxxxx xxxxx-xxxxxx xx xx xxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxx
xxxxxxxx. xxxxx-xxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxxx.




x xxxx xxxx xxxx xx xx xxxxxxxxxx, xxxx xx xxxx, xxx xxxx xx
xxx. xxxxxx xxxx xx xx xx xxx'x, xxx x xxxx xxxxxx xx.







xxx xx xxx



xx xxx xxxx xxx xxx xxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxx, x xxxx xxx xx. xx
xxx xx xxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxx, xx xxxxxx xxxx x
xxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxx xxxxx xxxx
xx xxxxxxxx, xxx x xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxx
xxxxxxxx. xx xxx xxxxxx xxxx xxx xxx. xx xxxxx xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxx xx xxxx xx xxxx xxxx. xx xxx
xxxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx. xxx xxxx
xxxxx, xxxxx xxx xxxxx xxx xxxx, xxxxxxx xxxxx xx xxxx xxxxx
xx xxxxxxxx, xxxxx xx xxx xx xxxxxxxxxx, xxx xxxxx xx xxx xx xxxx xxxxxxx.




…





xxxxxx





place point after this line

[-- Attachment #3: blogger-input.org --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 4646 bytes --]

* a headline i don't use
*** [#A] a headline i do use -- place mark at beginning of this line     :now:
***** xxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx
xxx xxxxxx xxxx xxxxx xx xxxx.  xxx xxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxx xx
xxxxxx xx xxxxxxxx xxx xxxxx xx xx xx xxxx xx x xxxxx xxxxx
xxxxx.  xxx xxxxxx xx x xxxxxxx.

xx xxxxx xx xxxx xxxxxx, xx x xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx
/xxxxx-xxxxxx/, xxx x xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxx /xxx xxxxxxxx/.
xxxx xx xxxx xxxxxx xxxxx xxx x xxxx xxxx xx xx xxx xxxxx.

xx xxx xxxx x xxxx xxxx xxxxx x xxxx xxxxx, xxx xxx
xxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxx.  xxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxx
xxxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxx xxxxxx, xxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxx, xxx,
xxx xxxxxx xxxxx.

x xxxxx xxxxxxx, xx xxxx, xxx xxxx xx xx.
***** xxx xxxxxxxx
xxxxxxx xxx xxx xxx xxxxxxxx.  xx xxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxx
xxxx xx xxxx xxxx.  xx xx xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxx.  xxx xxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx xx
xxxx-xxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, xxxx-xxxxx xxxx.  x xxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxx xxxxxxxx, xxx xxx xxxx xx
xxx xxxxxxxx xxxxx xxx 1980x, xxxxxx xxxxxx-xx-xxxxxx xx xxx
xxx xxxx xxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxx xxxxxx xxxx xxx.
#  xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xx xxxxx xxx.

xxxxxxxx xxxxxx.  xx xxx xxxxx xxxxxx, xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxx,
xxxxx xxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx, xxx xxxxxxx xxxxx xx xxxxx
xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxx, xx xxxxxxxxxx;
xxxxxxxx xxx xx xxxxxxxx xxxx; xxxx xxx.

xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxx xxx.  xxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx,
xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxx
xxx xxxxxxxx; xxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx.
# xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx, xxx x xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxx
# xxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxx xxxxxx 24 xxxxx xxxxx.

xxx xxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx, xxx
xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx 17 xxxxxxx.  xxxxx x xxxxxxx xxx xx xxx
xxx.  xxxx xx xxxxxxx xx xxx.

-----

xx xxx'x xxxx xxxx xxxxxxx xx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxx xxxx xxxxx xx xxx/xxxx,
xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxx.  xx xxxxxxxx xxxxx, x xxx
xxx xxxx xx xxx xx xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxx.

#+xxxxx_xxxxxx
/xx xxxxxxxx xxxx xx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx; xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx x xxxxxx xx xxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxx/ --[[xxxx://xxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx/xxxx/xxxxx][xxxxxxx]]
#+xxx_xxxxxx
***** xxxxx-xxxxxx
*xxx xxx xxxxx xx xxxx* xx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxx xx
xxxxx-xxxxxx.

xxxxxxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxx xx, xxx xxxx xxxxx xx, xxxxx x
xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx.
xxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xxx xx xxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxx.

xxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxx xxxxxx xx x xxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxx-xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxx xxx
xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xx xxx xxxx x xxxxxxx.

xxx xxxxxxxx xx xx xxxxxxxxx xxxxx xx xxxxx-xxxxxx xxxx xxx
xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxx x xxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxxxxx xx xx
xxxxx.  xxx xxx xx xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx.
xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xxxx.

xxxxxx xxxxx xxx, xxxxxxx xxx xxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxx xxx
xxxxxxxx xx xx xxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxx.

xxx xxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxxx.  xxx xxxx xxxx xxxx x xxxxxxxxx
xxxxx xxxxx xxxxxx xxxx x xxxxxxxx xxxx xx xxxx xxx xxxx xx
xxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx.
***** xxx xxxx
xxxx xxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxxxx-xxxxxx xxx xxx xxxxxxxx.
xxxxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxx xx.

xx xxx xxxx x xxxx xxxx xx xxx xxxxxx.  x xxxxx xx xxxxxxx
xxxxx xxx xxxxxx "xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx", xxx xxxxxx xxxxx
xxxx.  x xxxxxxx xx xxxxxxx xxxx xx xxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxx
x xxxx xxxxx xxxxxx, xxxxxxx x xxxx xxxx xxxxxxxx.

xxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxxx xx
xxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx.
x xxxx xx xx xxxx xx xxxxxxx xxxx, xxx x xxxxxx xxxx xxxx
xxxxx xx.  xxxx xxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxx xxx
xxxxxxxx.

xx xxx xxx, xxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xx "xxx xxxxx
xxxxxxxx" xx xxxxxxxxxx, xxx xxx xxx, x xxxx xxxxxx xx xxxx
xxxxx xxxxx-xxxxxx xx xx xxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxx
xxxxxxxx.  xxxxx-xxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxxx.

x xxxx xxxx xxxx xx xx xxxxxxxxxx, xxxx xx xxxx, xxx xxxx xx
xxx.  xxxxxx xxxx xx xx xx xxx'x, xxx x xxxx xxxxxx xx.
***** xxx xx xxx
xx xxx xxxx xxx xxx xxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxx, x xxxx xxx xx.  xx
xxx xx xxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxx, xx xxxxxx xxxx x
xxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxx xxxxx xxxx
xx xxxxxxxx, xxx x xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxx
xxxxxxxx.  xx xxx xxxxxx xxxx xxx xxx.  xx xxxxx xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxx xx xxxx xx xxxx xxxx.  xx xxx
xxxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx.  xxx xxxx
xxxxx, xxxxx xxx xxxxx xxx xxxx, xxxxxxx xxxxx xx xxxx xxxxx
xx xxxxxxxx, xxxxx xx xxx xx xxxxxxxxxx, xxx *xxxxx xx xxx
xx xxxx xxxxxxx*.

...


xxxxxx


place point after this line

[-- Attachment #4: blogger-output-filled.text --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 4299 bytes --]

xxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx



xxx xxxxxx xxxx xxxxx xx xxxx. xxx xxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxx xx
xxxxxx xx xxxxxxxx xxx xxxxx xx xx xx xxxx xx x xxxxx xxxxx
xxxxx. xxx xxxxxx xx x xxxxxxx.


xx xxxxx xx xxxx xxxxxx, xx x xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx
xxxxx-xxxxxx, xxx x xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxx.
xxxx xx xxxx xxxxxx xxxxx xxx x xxxx xxxx xx xx xxx xxxxx.


xx xxx xxxx x xxxx xxxx xxxxx x xxxx xxxxx, xxx xxx
xxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxx. xxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxx
xxxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxx xxxxxx, xxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxx, xxx,
xxx xxxxxx xxxxx.


x xxxxx xxxxxxx, xx xxxx, xxx xxxx xx xx.





xxx xxxxxxxx



xxxxxxx xxx xxx xxx xxxxxxxx. xx xxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxx
xxxx xx xxxx xxxx. xx xx xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxx. xxx xxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx.


xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx xx
xxxx-xxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, xxxx-xxxxx xxxx. x xxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxx xxxxxxxx, xxx xxx xxxx xx
xxx xxxxxxxx xxxxx xxx 1980x, xxxxxx xxxxxx-xx-xxxxxx xx xxx
xxx xxxx xxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxx xxxxxx xxxx xxx.


xxxxxxxx xxxxxx. xx xxx xxxxx xxxxxx, xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxx,
xxxxx xxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx, xxx xxxxxxx xxxxx xx xxxxx
xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxx, xx xxxxxxxxxx;
xxxxxxxx xxx xx xxxxxxxx xxxx; xxxx xxx.


xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxx xxx. xxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx,
xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxx
xxx xxxxxxxx; xxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx.


xxx xxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx, xxx
xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx 17 xxxxxxx. xxxxx x xxxxxxx xxx xx xxx
xxx. xxxx xx xxxxxxx xx xxx.





xx xxx'x xxxx xxxx xxxxxxx xx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxx xxxx xxxxx xx xxx/xxxx,
xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxx. xx xxxxxxxx xxxxx, x xxx
xxx xxxx xx xxx xx xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxx.


xx xxxxxxxx xxxx xx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx; xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx x xxxxxx xx xxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxx --xxxxxxx





xxxxx-xxxxxx



xxx xxx xxxxx xx xxxx xx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxx xx
xxxxx-xxxxxx.


xxxxxxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxx xx, xxx xxxx xxxxx xx, xxxxx x
xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx.
xxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xxx xx xxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxx.


xxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxx xxxxxx xx x xxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxx-xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxx xxx
xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xx xxx xxxx x xxxxxxx.


xxx xxxxxxxx xx xx xxxxxxxxx xxxxx xx xxxxx-xxxxxx xxxx xxx
xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxx x xxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxxxxx xx xx
xxxxx. xxx xxx xx xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx.
xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xxxx.


xxxxxx xxxxx xxx, xxxxxxx xxx xxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxx xxx
xxxxxxxx xx xx xxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxx.


xxx xxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxxx. xxx xxxx xxxx xxxx x xxxxxxxxx
xxxxx xxxxx xxxxxx xxxx x xxxxxxxx xxxx xx xxxx xxx xxxx xx
xxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx.





xxx xxxx



xxxx xxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxxxx-xxxxxx xxx xxx xxxxxxxx.
xxxxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxx xx.


xx xxx xxxx x xxxx xxxx xx xxx xxxxxx. x xxxxx xx xxxxxxx
xxxxx xxx xxxxxx "xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx", xxx xxxxxx xxxxx
xxxx. x xxxxxxx xx xxxxxxx xxxx xx xxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxx
x xxxx xxxxx xxxxxx, xxxxxxx x xxxx xxxx xxxxxxxx.


xxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxxx xx
xxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx.
x xxxx xx xx xxxx xx xxxxxxx xxxx, xxx x xxxxxx xxxx xxxx
xxxxx xx. xxxx xxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxx xxx
xxxxxxxx.


xx xxx xxx, xxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xx "xxx xxxxx
xxxxxxxx" xx xxxxxxxxxx, xxx xxx xxx, x xxxx xxxxxx xx xxxx
xxxxx xxxxx-xxxxxx xx xx xxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxx
xxxxxxxx. xxxxx-xxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxxx.


x xxxx xxxx xxxx xx xx xxxxxxxxxx, xxxx xx xxxx, xxx xxxx xx
xxx. xxxxxx xxxx xx xx xx xxx'x, xxx x xxxx xxxxxx xx.





xxx xx xxx



xx xxx xxxx xxx xxx xxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxx, x xxxx xxx xx. xx
xxx xx xxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxx, xx xxxxxx xxxx x
xxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxx xxxxx xxxx
xx xxxxxxxx, xxx x xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxx
xxxxxxxx. xx xxx xxxxxx xxxx xxx xxx. xx xxxxx xxxxxxx
xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxx xx xxxx xx xxxx xxxx. xx xxx
xxxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx. xxx xxxx
xxxxx, xxxxx xxx xxxxx xxx xxxx, xxxxxxx xxxxx xx xxxx xxxxx
xx xxxxxxxx, xxxxx xx xxx xx xxxxxxxxxx, xxx xxxxx xx xxx xx xxxx xxxxxxx.


…



xxxxxx



place point after this line

[-- Attachment #5: Type: text/plain, Size: 201 bytes --]

_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[John Hendy]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2675 bytes --]

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, I spoke too soon.  I don't have a solution.  Here is
> what I tried.
>
>  4) John's recipe: c-u c-c c-e R -> perl script -> blogger
>     - paragraphs are separated by too many blank lines
>     - blogger result attached
>
>
Weird -- I just downloaded your org file and exported using C-u C-e R,
saving as export.txt, running the perl script, and saving that as the
attached. I was already aware of some spacing issues before paragraphs, but
was unsure about your extra lines comment. When I run it, I don't show that.
Check it out -- I have just one line in between paragraphs.

I also copied the perl from this email just in case it got goofed in
translation so I'm confident we're using the same things. I wonder if it's
org options? My emacs file has these options for org related stuff:

,-----
| ;; set auto-fill and some keybindings
| (add-hook 'text-mode-hook 'turn-on-auto-fill)
| (global-set-key "\C-cl" 'org-store-link)
| (global-set-key "\C-ca" 'org-agenda)
|
|
| ;; set config options: stars, todos, font-lock, C-a/e
| (setq org-hide-leading-stars t)
| (setq org-log-done t)
| (add-hook 'org-mode-hook 'turn-on-font-lock)
| (setq org-blank-before-new-entry '((heading . nil) (plain-list-item .
nil)))
| (setq org-special-ctrl-a/e t)
| (setq org-use-speed-commands t)
| (transient-mark-mode 1)
`-----

Could any of these be the culprit? Perhaps org-blank-lines-before-new-entry?
Not sure if things like that affect export at all, but just wondered as I
pasted it...

John


>
> (defun alpha-unfill-region-or-paragraph ()
>  (interactive)
>  (let ((fill-column (point-max)))
>    (alpha-fill-region-or-paragraph)))
> (defun alpha-fill-region-or-paragraph ()
>  (interactive)
>  (if (hoka-org-region-active-p)
>      (call-interactively #'fill-region)
>    (fill-paragraph nil)))
>
>
> John's recipe (I shortcutted with c-u m-|):
>
>  1) Write some stuff
>  2) Select it (move to beginning of what you want, C-space,
>     move to end of what you want)
>  3) C-u C-c C-e R to export that region with no preamble to
>     a separate buffer
>  4) C-x C-w export.txt
>  5) to terminal: perl -pi -e ' s/\R/ /g; s/\<p\>//g;
> s/\<\/p\>/\n\n/g;' export.txt
>  6) back to emacs: C-x C-f export.txt; type "yes"
>  7) M-< to go to front of buffer, C-space, M-> to go to
>     end, M-w to copy
>  8) Paste into basic blogger edit box
>  9) Done
>
> Org source is attached.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
>

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 3809 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: John-export-attempt.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 4896 bytes --]

<div id="outline-container-1" class="outline-4"> <h4 id="sec-1">a headline i do use &ndash; place mark at beginning of this line &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span class="tag"><span class="now">now</span></span></h4> <div class="outline-text-4" id="text-1">  <ul> <li id="sec-1_1">xxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx <br/> xxx xxxxxx xxxx xxxxx xx xxxx.  xxx xxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxx xx xxxxxxxx xxx xxxxx xx xx xx xxxx xx x xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx.  xxx xxxxxx xx x xxxxxxx.   xx xxxxx xx xxxx xxxxxx, xx x xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx <i>xxxxx-xxxxxx</i>, xxx x xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxx <i>xxx xxxxxxxx</i>. xxxx xx xxxx xxxxxx xxxxx xxx x xxxx xxxx xx xx xxx xxxxx. 

  xx xxx xxxx x xxxx xxxx xxxxx x xxxx xxxxx, xxx xxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxx.  xxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxx xxxxxx, xxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxx, xxx, xxx xxxxxx xxxxx. 

  x xxxxx xxxxxxx, xx xxxx, xxx xxxx xx xx. 

</li> </ul> <ul> <li id="sec-1_2">xxx xxxxxxxx <br/> xxxxxxx xxx xxx xxx xxxxxxxx.  xx xxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxx xxxx xx xxxx xxxx.  xx xx xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx.  xxx xxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx.   xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxx-xxxxx, xxxxxxxxx, xxxx-xxxxx xxxx.  x xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxx xxxxxxxx, xxx xxx xxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxx xxxxx xxx 1980x, xxxxxx xxxxxx-xx-xxxxxx xx xxx xxx xxxx xxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxx xxxxxx xxxx xxx. 

  xxxxxxxx xxxxxx.  xx xxx xxxxx xxxxxx, xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxx, xxxxx xxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx, xxx xxxxxxx xxxxx xx xxxxx xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxx, xx xxxxxxxxxx; xxxxxxxx xxx xx xxxxxxxx xxxx; xxxx xxx. 

  xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxx xxx.  xxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx, xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx; xxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx. 

  xxx xxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx, xxx xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx 17 xxxxxxx.  xxxxx x xxxxxxx xxx xx xxx xxx.  xxxx xx xxxxxxx xx xxx. 

  <hr/>   xx xxx'x xxxx xxxx xxxxxxx xx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxx xxxx xxxxx xx xxx/xxxx, xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxx.  xx xxxxxxxx xxxxx, x xxx xxx xxxx xx xxx xx xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxx. 

  <i>xx xxxxxxxx xxxx xx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx; xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx x xxxxxx xx xxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxx</i> --<a href="#xxxx://xxxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xxx/xxxx/xxxxx">xxxxxxx</a> 

</li> </ul> <ul> <li id="sec-1_3">xxxxx-xxxxxx <br/> <b>xxx xxx xxxxx xx xxxx</b> xx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxx xx xxxxx-xxxxxx.   xxxxxxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxx xx, xxx xxxx xxxxx xx, xxxxx x xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx. xxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xxx xx xxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxx. 

  xxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxx xxxxxx xx x xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxx-xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxx xxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xx xxx xxxx x xxxxxxx. 

  xxx xxxxxxxx xx xx xxxxxxxxx xxxxx xx xxxxx-xxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxx x xxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxxxxx xx xx xxxxx.  xxx xxx xx xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx. xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xxxx. 

  xxxxxx xxxxx xxx, xxxxxxx xxx xxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxx xx xx xxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxx. 

  xxx xxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxxx.  xxx xxxx xxxx xxxx x xxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxxx xxxx x xxxxxxxx xxxx xx xxxx xxx xxxx xx xxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx. 

</li> </ul> <ul> <li id="sec-1_4">xxx xxxx <br/> xxxx xxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxxxx-xxxxxx xxx xxx xxxxxxxx. xxxxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxx xx.   xx xxx xxxx x xxxx xxxx xx xxx xxxxxx.  x xxxxx xx xxxxxxx xxxxx xxx xxxxxx "xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx", xxx xxxxxx xxxxx xxxx.  x xxxxxxx xx xxxxxxx xxxx xx xxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxx x xxxx xxxxx xxxxxx, xxxxxxx x xxxx xxxx xxxxxxxx. 

  xxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx. x xxxx xx xx xxxx xx xxxxxxx xxxx, xxx x xxxxxx xxxx xxxx xxxxx xx.  xxxx xxxx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxxx xx xxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxx. 

  xx xxx xxx, xxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xx "xxx xxxxx xxxxxxxx" xx xxxxxxxxxx, xxx xxx xxx, x xxxx xxxxxx xx xxxx xxxxx xxxxx-xxxxxx xx xx xxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx.  xxxxx-xxxxxx xx xxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxxx. 

  x xxxx xxxx xxxx xx xx xxxxxxxxxx, xxxx xx xxxx, xxx xxxx xx xxx.  xxxxxx xxxx xx xx xx xxx'x, xxx x xxxx xxxxxx xx. 

</li> </ul> <ul> <li id="sec-1_5">xxx xx xxx <br/> xx xxx xxxx xxx xxx xxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxx, x xxxx xxx xx.  xx xxx xx xxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxxxx, xx xxxxxx xxxx x xxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxxxx xx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxx xxxxx xxxx xx xxxxxxxx, xxx x xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxx xxxxxxxx.  xx xxx xxxxxx xxxx xxx xxx.  xx xxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxx xxx xxxxx xx xxxx xx xxxx xxxx.  xx xxx xxxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx xxx xxxxxxxxx.  xxx xxxx xxxxx, xxxxx xxx xxxxx xxx xxxx, xxxxxxx xxxxx xx xxxx xxxxx xx xxxxxxxx, xxxxx xx xxx xx xxxxxxxxxx, xxx <b>xxxxx xx xxx xx xxxx xxxxxxx</b>.   &hellip; 

   xxxxxx 

   place point after this line 

</li> </ul> </div> </div> 

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Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Samuel Wales]

Thanks.  Maybe it's a bug of some sort.

Your settings look compatible with mine and as if they should not affect this.

Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Samuel Wales]

I found this in the manual.  Does anybody know whether this is
relevant to the problem?

     \n:        turn on/off line-break-preservation (DOES NOT WORK)

Thanks.


Samuel

On 2010-11-13, Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, I spoke too soon.  I don't have a solution.  Here is
> what I tried.
>
>
>   1) org source (my normally-preferred filled paragraphs) ->
>      c-u c-c c-e R -> blogger
>      - hard breaks are inserted so no filling can happen in
>        published blog entry
>        + if large fonts and small column, will break
>          awkwardly
>      - blogger result attached
>   2) Unfill-region (my code below) -> c-u c-c c-e R -> blogger
>      - paragraphs are separated by too many blank lines
>      - an extra closing div if top headline not included
>        (not really a problem)
>      - unfill-region doesn't actually catch all paragraphs
>        so you have to manually unfill some
>   3) Unfill-region (my code below) -> manually deleting
>      space between paragraphs -> c-u c-c c-e R -> blogger
>      - no paragraph separation
>   4) John's recipe: c-u c-c c-e R -> perl script -> blogger
>      - paragraphs are separated by too many blank lines
>      - blogger result attached
>
>
> (defun alpha-unfill-region-or-paragraph ()
>   (interactive)
>   (let ((fill-column (point-max)))
>     (alpha-fill-region-or-paragraph)))
> (defun alpha-fill-region-or-paragraph ()
>   (interactive)
>   (if (hoka-org-region-active-p)
>       (call-interactively #'fill-region)
>     (fill-paragraph nil)))
>
>
> John's recipe (I shortcutted with c-u m-|):
>
>   1) Write some stuff
>   2) Select it (move to beginning of what you want, C-space,
>      move to end of what you want)
>   3) C-u C-c C-e R to export that region with no preamble to
>      a separate buffer
>   4) C-x C-w export.txt
>   5) to terminal: perl -pi -e ' s/\R/ /g; s/\<p\>//g;
> s/\<\/p\>/\n\n/g;' export.txt
>   6) back to emacs: C-x C-f export.txt; type "yes"
>   7) M-< to go to front of buffer, C-space, M-> to go to
>      end, M-w to copy
>   8) Paste into basic blogger edit box
>   9) Done
>
> Org source is attached.
>


-- 
Q: How many CDC "scientists" does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: "You only think it's dark." [CDC has denied a deadly serious
disease for 25 years]
==========
HIV-like virus: http://www.wpinstitute.org/xmrv/index.html -- PLEASE DONATE
===
I want to see the original (pre-hold) Lo et al. 2010 NIH/FDA/Harvard MLV paper.

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Giovanni Ridolfi]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> I found this in the manual.  Does anybody know whether this is
> relevant to the problem?
>
>      \n:        turn on/off line-break-preservation 
> (DOES NOT WORK)

Samuel, it, actually, works for me:
Org-mode version 7.3 commit-fee2c2c8dab57bf11ad34526f1364154f57fb020
GNU Emacs 23.2.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2010-05-08 on G41R2F1

when I export the *whole* file.   

if: \n:t
----------------------------------file -------------
#+TITLE:     pippo.org
#+DATE:      2010-11-16 mar
#+DESCRIPTION: 
#+KEYWORDS: 
#+LANGUAGE:  en
#+OPTIONS:   H:3 num:t toc:t \n:t @:t ::t |:t ^:t -:t f:t *:t <:t
#+OPTIONS:   TeX:t LaTeX:t skip:nil d:nil todo:t pri:nil tags:not-in-toc
#+INFOJS_OPT: view:nil toc:nil ltoc:t mouse:underline buttons:0 path:http://orgmode.org/org-info.js
#+EXPORT_SELECT_TAGS: export
#+EXPORT_EXCLUDE_TAGS: noexport
#+LINK_UP:   
#+LINK_HOME: 
#+XSLT: 
* hello 
LONG LINE Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong

let's brake line HERE
this should be in new line: LONG LINE Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong not so
--------------------------------------------------

HTML output is:

<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
lang="en" xml:lang="en">

<div id="outline-container-1" class="outline-2">
<h2 id="sec-1"><span class="section-number-2">1</span> hello </h2>
<div class="outline-text-2" id="text-1">

<p> #+OPTIONS:   H:3 num:t toc:t \n:t @:t ::t |:t ^:t -:t f:t *:t <:t </p>
<p>LONG LINE Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong<br/>
</p>
<p><br/>
let's brake line HERE<br/>
this should be in new line: LONG LINE Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong not so<br/>
</p>
<p><br/>
</p></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>


if \n:nil

<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
lang="en" xml:lang="en">

<div id="outline-container-1" class="outline-2">
<h2 id="sec-1"><span class="section-number-2">1</span> hello </h2>
<div class="outline-text-2" id="text-1">

<p>#+OPTIONS:   H:3 num:t toc:t \n:nil @:t ::t |:t ^:t -:t f:t *:t <:t </p>

<p>LONG LINE Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong
</p>
<p>
let's brake line HERE
this should be in new line: LONG LINE Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong not so
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

It works for me, also for a subtree
----------------
#+OPTIONS:   H:3 num:t toc:t \n:t @:t ::t |:t ^:t -:t f:t *:t <:t
** now a subtree

brake it brake it
newline 
---------------- HTML --------
<h1 class="title">now a subtree</h1>

<p>brake it brake it<br/>
newline<br/>

cheers,
Giovanni

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Samuel Wales]

Thanks, Giovanni, that helps; I assumed that "does not work" meant
what it said.  :)

However, it doesn't help me when I actually post the HTML.

The problem is that even without the <br>, the paragraph does not
fill.  So I would have to unfill the paragraphs manually, then export,
then undo the unfilling.

The perl code does not unfill paragraphs in my tests.

So I guess I'd like to know if:

  1) anybody has a /hook in the exporter/ to unfill paragraphs, or
  2) anybody has a way for the HTML to instruct the browser to /ignore
newlines/, or
  3) anybody has an unfill-region that works better than mine.

My unfill-region uses filladapt and seems so far to work for most
paragraphs but not ones following a headline.  It does not work with
filladapt turned off, seemingly.

Therefore there is manual effort to unfill paragraphs after headlines.

(defun alpha-unfill-region-or-paragraph ()
  (interactive)
  (let ((fill-column (point-max)))
    (alpha-fill-region-or-paragraph)))
(defun alpha-fill-region-or-paragraph ()
  (interactive)
  (if (hoka-org-region-active-p)
      (call-interactively #'fill-region)
    (fill-paragraph nil)))
(defun hoka-org-region-active-p ()
  "Just a slighlty modified copy of the org function.
Is `transient-mark-mode' on and the region active?
Works on both Emacs and XEmacs."
  (if (featurep 'xemacs)
      (and zmacs-regions (region-active-p))
    (if (fboundp 'use-region-p)
        (use-region-p)
      (and transient-mark-mode mark-active))))

Thanks.


Samuel

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Samuel Wales]

Of these three options, which do you think makes the most sense?

1) a /hook in the exporter/ to unfill paragraphs, or
2) a way for the HTML to instruct the browser to /ignore
    newlines/, or
3) an unfill-region that works better than mine.

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[John Hendy]

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On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:

> Of these three options, which do you think makes the most sense?
>
> 1) a /hook in the exporter/ to unfill paragraphs, or
> 2) a way for the HTML to instruct the browser to /ignore
>    newlines/, or
> 3) an unfill-region that works better than mine.
>

4) Was what I sent back desirable/acceptable from how I export?
--- 4a) if not, await answers on 1-3
--- 4b) if so, figure out what the difference is between what you get and
what I get and then automate the process.

I realize it's not working properly for you, but it seemed like my output is
what you're looking for:
--- exporting just the region desired
--- no heading/footer stuff
--- unfilled via perl
--- all html tags for links and emphasis work great
--- quick; not sure how much you blog, but once I'm done typing and spell
checking, it takes me less than 1-2min to do my process and most of that is
just me being anal in checking it over prior to clicking "post." The actual
export to copy-able/paste-able text takes 20sec or so.


John


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Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Samuel Wales]

No, I really meant my question the way I worded it.  I really want to
know the answer to 1-3, not the items you added.

I am limited in the typing that I can do, John.  All typing is very
painful.  So I cannot explain why right now.  Just trust me please.

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Samuel Wales]

OK, more:

I appreciate your considerable effort and I know that your perl
solution works for you, but debugging it so that it works for my box
also is not the approach that will work for all of us, and is not
something I can do at this time.  A dependency on a specific version
of perl or another part of the external environment is not a universal
solution.

A native solution is best for everybody if we can implement it.

I hope that explains a little better.

My questions again are, is there a hook that can unfill, can HTML be
made to unfill, or is there an unfill-region that works on subtrees.

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[John Hendy]

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On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:

> OK, more:
>
> I appreciate your considerable effort and I know that your perl
> solution works for you, but debugging it so that it works for my box
> also is not the approach that will work for all of us, and is not
> something I can do at this time.  A dependency on a specific version
> of perl or another part of the external environment is not a universal
> solution.
>

Good points. Didn't mean to be pushy! Just wanted to toss it out one more
time. Consider it more that I empathize with your frustration and since I've
been so happy with it I was hoping it could make your life easier as well.


> A native solution is best for everybody if we can implement it.
>

Perhaps this is right. Maybe my fix was more hackish and non-robust and it's
better to put in the effort to find a more universal solution for those in
this situation.


> My questions again are, is there a hook that can unfill, can HTML be
> made to unfill, or is there an unfill-region that works on subtrees.
>

Before hitting send I decided to look around and see what I found. Check
this out!! [1]

,-----
| (defun unfill-region (begin end)
| "Remove all linebreaks in a region but leave paragraphs, indented text
| (quotes, code) and lines starting with an asterisk (lists) intact"
| (interactive "r")
| (replace-regexp "\\([^\n]\\)\n\\([^ *\n]\\)" "\\1 \\2" nil begin end))
`-----

I tried it out and it worked great (added to .emacs, reloaded, and used M-x
unfill-region RET). I tried it with two headings each with multiple lines of
text under them and unfilled the whole buffer. It leaves the headers on
their own lines and turns each paragraph into a long line of text that
exported perfectly to a run-on html blob with C-u C-c C-e R.

Would that work?

[1] http://blog.bookworm.at/2007/08/emacs-unfill-region.html


John

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Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[John Hendy]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2162 bytes --]

It turns out that there are several hits for things like this. Those on the
list who actually know elisp can perhaps decide which is the most robust
implementation. Here's some more (did not try these... just digging them up
and providing links):

- http://blog.chrislowis.co.uk/2010/03/03/unfill-region-emacs.html
- http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs_unfill-paragraph.html
- http://nolan.eakins.net/node/208

There was also a reference in the original post below to longlines-mode
which (from my quick skim) seems to do what fill mode does but with "soft"
returns; it only appears to be filled but in reality is not altering actual
file line breaks. I tried this and can verify that when I save from
longlines mode it is not inserting actual line breaks (if I use "cat
file.org" there are no line breaks) whereas with fill the line breaks are
definitely inserted into the file... however it seems that org exports to
html how the file appears in the buffer, not what's in the file. I did want
to toss it out there in case someone knows how to integrate it somehow.

- http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Longlines.html


Best regards,
John

<http://blog.chrislowis.co.uk/2010/03/03/unfill-region-emacs.html>

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:34 PM, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Before hitting send I decided to look around and see what I found. Check
> this out!! [1]
>
> ,-----
> | (defun unfill-region (begin end)
> | "Remove all linebreaks in a region but leave paragraphs, indented text
> | (quotes, code) and lines starting with an asterisk (lists) intact"
> | (interactive "r")
> | (replace-regexp "\\([^\n]\\)\n\\([^ *\n]\\)" "\\1 \\2" nil begin end))
> `-----
>
> I tried it out and it worked great (added to .emacs, reloaded, and used M-x
> unfill-region RET). I tried it with two headings each with multiple lines of
> text under them and unfilled the whole buffer. It leaves the headers on
> their own lines and turns each paragraph into a long line of text that
> exported perfectly to a run-on html blob with C-u C-c C-e R.
>
> Would that work?
>
> [1] http://blog.bookworm.at/2007/08/emacs-unfill-region.html
>
>
> John
>

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Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Eric S Fraga]

John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> writes:

[...]

> There was also a reference in the original post below to
> longlines-mode which (from my quick skim) seems to do what fill mode
> does but with "soft" returns; it only appears to be filled but in
> reality is not altering actual file line breaks. I tried this and can
> verify that when I save from longlines mode it is not inserting actual
> line breaks (if I use "cat file.org" there are no line breaks) whereas
> with fill the line breaks are definitely inserted into the
> file... however it seems that org exports to html how the file appears
> in the buffer, not what's in the file. I did want to toss it out there
> in case someone knows how to integrate it somehow. 

I apologise for jumping into the middle of a conversation but your
reference to longlines-mode brings to mind visual-line-mode which was
introduced in Emacs 23 (I believe).  This mode turns on =word-wrap= as
well which makes the text look like it has been filled (i.e. soft
returns in your parlance) without actually changing the underlying
text.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 23.2.1
: using Org-mode version 7.3 (release_7.3.80.g0265)

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[John Hendy]

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On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 3:09 AM, Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:

> John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> writes:
>
> [...]
>
> > There was also a reference in the original post below to
> > longlines-mode...
>
> I apologise for jumping into the middle of a conversation but your
> reference to longlines-mode brings to mind visual-line-mode which was
> introduced in Emacs 23 (I believe).  This mode turns on =word-wrap= as
> well which makes the text look like it has been filled (i.e. soft
> returns in your parlance) without actually changing the underlying
> text.
>
>
I saw that as well. Haven't tried it but the question will be whether Org
exports the *actual contents* of the file or what it appears to be on the
screen. Longlines mode seems to do something similar in that it is "wrapped"
but the file actually contains no line breaks... however when exporting to
html, Org seems to use what the buffer *looks* like, not what the actual
file contains.

John



> --
> : Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 23.2.1
> : using Org-mode version 7.3 (release_7.3.80.g0265)
>

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Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Eric S Fraga]

John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> writes:

> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 3:09 AM, Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>     John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> writes:
>    
>     [...]
>    
>     > There was also a reference in the original post below to
>     > longlines-mode...
>    
>     I apologise for jumping into the middle of a conversation but your
>     reference to longlines-mode brings to mind visual-line-mode which was
>     introduced in Emacs 23 (I believe).  This mode turns on =word-wrap= as
>     well which makes the text look like it has been filled (i.e. soft
>     returns in your parlance) without actually changing the underlying
>     text.
>
> I saw that as well. Haven't tried it but the question will be whether
> Org exports the actual contents of the file or what it appears to be
> on the screen. Longlines mode seems to do something similar in that it
> is "wrapped" but the file actually contains no line breaks... however
> when exporting to html, Org seems to use what the buffer looks like,
> not what the actual file contains.

Very strange.  I don't observe this behaviour at all.  With
visual-line-mode enabled *and* truncate-lines disabled (so that the
lines are actually wrapped on the screen; note that org sets line
truncation to be on by default), the text in my display (for a short
example) appears as 5 or 6 lines (depends on the window width, of
course) but the exported HTML is a single line.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 23.2.1
: using Org-mode version 7.3 (release_7.3.86.gb3d6f)

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Samuel Wales]

On 2010-11-17, Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
> I apologise for jumping into the middle of a conversation but your

It's an open conversation.  Jump away.  :)

> reference to longlines-mode brings to mind visual-line-mode which was
> introduced in Emacs 23 (I believe).  This mode turns on =word-wrap= as
> well which makes the text look like it has been filled (i.e. soft
> returns in your parlance) without actually changing the underlying
> text.

This is tempting, but (1) I am stuck with 22 for now and (2) I am not
yet comfortable with the idea.  I'm not sure it will work with git,
magit, diff-mode, ediff, etc. the way I want it to.

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Eric S Fraga]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> On 2010-11-17, Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>> I apologise for jumping into the middle of a conversation but your
>
> It's an open conversation.  Jump away.  :)

Thanks!

>> reference to longlines-mode brings to mind visual-line-mode which was
>> introduced in Emacs 23 (I believe).  This mode turns on =word-wrap= as
>> well which makes the text look like it has been filled (i.e. soft
>> returns in your parlance) without actually changing the underlying
>> text.
>
> This is tempting, but (1) I am stuck with 22 for now and (2) I am not
> yet comfortable with the idea.  I'm not sure it will work with git,
> magit, diff-mode, ediff, etc. the way I want it to.

I completely understand (1) so that is enough reason to not consider
visual-line-mode.  I used to have the same constraint when using one of
my handheld units...

However, I don't really understand what you are saying in point (2).
What is "it" in "not sure _it_ will work"?  If you are referring to
visual-line-mode, it only affects the display on the screen (for text
buffers) and has absolutely no impact on version control or any tool
that works with the underlying file.

cheers,
eric

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 23.2.1
: using Org-mode version 7.3 (release_7.3.124.g6e3f)

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Samuel Wales]

On 2010-11-16, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
> ,-----
> | (defun unfill-region (begin end)

That implementation again worked differently for you and me.  It
filled org headlines.  In fact, I don't see how it wouldn't, given the
regexp.  Very strange.

But I am about to try the Blogger editors to see if I can fix it that
way and not need to unfill.

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Christian Moe]

Hi,

Samuel Wales wrote:
> So I guess I'd like to know if:
>
>    1) anybody has a /hook in the exporter/ to unfill paragraphs, or

This is what I've come up with for posting comments on WordPress 
blogs, without <p> tags and linebreaks. It can probably be written 
more elegantly, but it does what I need. Haven't tried Blogger but 
possibly it works for you as well.

(defun my-org-postprocess-blog-post ()
     "Adapt exported HTML to blogs that get confused by <p> and
newlines."
   (let ((fill-column (point-max))) ; h/t Chris Lowry
     ;; p tags
     (goto-char (point-min))
     (while (re-search-forward "</?p>" nil t)
       (replace-match ""))
     ;; unfill
     (fill-region start end nil) ; with fill-column set really huge
     ;; delete superfluous blank lines (is there a better way?)
     (goto-char (point-min))
     (while (re-search-forward "\n\n+" nil t)
       (previous-line)
       (delete-blank-lines))))

(org-add-hook 'org-export-html-final-hook 'my-org-postprocess-blog-post)

>    2) anybody has a way for the HTML to instruct the browser to /ignore
> newlines/

I don't think that's a viable option across platforms.

Yours,
Christian

Add a hook with #+BIND?

[Christian Moe]

Hi,

Can I use #+BIND to add an exporter hook for the current document?

For instance, I have a function to postprocess HTML exports for blog 
posts.

I could turn it on for all HTML exports with

: (org-add-hook 'org-export-html-final-hook 'my-org-postprocess-blog-post)

But that's not what I want, I want to turn it on for certain documents 
only. Can I do that with the #+BIND option, and how do I write it? For 
reference, I've tried the following without success.

#+BIND: org-export-html-final-hook (my-org-postprocess-blog-post)
#+BIND: org-export-html-final-hook '(my-org-postprocess-blog-post)

Yours,
Christian

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[John Hendy]

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On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 5:47 AM, Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Samuel Wales wrote:
>
>> So I guess I'd like to know if:
>>
>>   1) anybody has a /hook in the exporter/ to unfill paragraphs, or
>>
>
> This is what I've come up with for posting comments on WordPress blogs,
> without <p> tags and linebreaks. It can probably be written more elegantly,
> but it does what I need. Haven't tried Blogger but possibly it works for you
> as well.
> ,----

| code
> `-----
>
>
I didn't try yours, but I found many similar functions and sent them out
last night. I'm hoping they did not get missed! It looks like many have
written functions to do just what Samuel is looking for
(unfill-region/paragraph). Here is the code again which worked like so:

- write a bunch of stuff and highlight it
- M-x unfill-region (command provided by the code below)
- C-u C-c C-e R
- M-< C-space M-> M-w
- Paste in blogger box

From http://blog.bookworm.at/2007/08/emacs-unfill-region.html:

> ,-----
> | (defun unfill-region (begin end)
> | "Remove all linebreaks in a region but leave paragraphs, indented text
> | (quotes, code) and lines starting with an asterisk (lists) intact"
> | (interactive "r")
> | (replace-regexp "\\([^\n]\\)\n\\([^ *\n]\\)" "\\1 \\2" nil begin end))
> `-----
>

And several links with additional very similar looking code:
 - http://blog.chrislowis.co.uk/2010/03/03/unfill-region-emacs.html
 - http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs_unfill-paragraph.html
 - http://nolan.eakins.net/node/208


John


> Yours,
> Christian
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>

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Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Nick Dokos]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:


>   1) org source (my normally-preferred filled paragraphs) ->
>      c-u c-c c-e R -> blogger
>      - hard breaks are inserted so no filling can happen in
>        published blog entry
>        + if large fonts and small column, will break
>          awkwardly
>      - blogger result attached

I tried this with your blogger-input.org and one change at the blogger.com
end: there is a "Post Options" button at the bottom of the text input box and
one of the options is

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
Edit HTML Line Breaks

[ ] Press "Enter" for line breaks
[x] Use <br /> tags
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

so I chose the latter and blithely pasted. Did you try that? If not, you
might want to give it a whirl: I think the output looks reasonable, but
it may be that I am satisfied too easily.

HTH,
Nick

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[John Hendy]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1834 bytes --]

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> wrote:

> Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >   1) org source (my normally-preferred filled paragraphs) ->
> >      c-u c-c c-e R -> blogger
> >      - hard breaks are inserted so no filling can happen in
> >        published blog entry
> >        + if large fonts and small column, will break
> >          awkwardly
> >      - blogger result attached
>
> I tried this with your blogger-input.org and one change at the blogger.com
> end: there is a "Post Options" button at the bottom of the text input box
> and
> one of the options is
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> Edit HTML Line Breaks
>
> [ ] Press "Enter" for line breaks
> [x] Use <br /> tags
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> so I chose the latter and blithely pasted. Did you try that? If not, you
> might want to give it a whirl: I think the output looks reasonable, but
> it may be that I am satisfied too easily.
>
>
Nick -- that was suggested to me when I posted about this topic a bit back
as well. [1] That *does* work, but there's a catch. It applies the rule to
every post that exists. If Samuel is just starting out, it's actually
awesome (would have been for me). But... I had about 30 longish posts in at
the time and going back to insert <br>'s at every line break would have been
crazy.

It is a viable solution for those starting out, so I'm glad it was brought
up on the list again, though.


John

[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/emacs-orgmode@gnu.org/msg27941.html


> HTH,
> Nick
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
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>

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Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Nick Dokos]

John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:

> Nick -- that was suggested to me when I posted about this topic a bit
> back as well. [1] That does work, but there's a catch. It applies the
> rule to every post that exists. If Samuel is just starting out, it's
> actually awesome (would have been for me). But... I had about 30
> longish posts in at the time and going back to insert <br>'s at every
> line break would have been crazy.
> 
> It is a viable solution for those starting out, so I'm glad it was
> brought up on the list again, though.
> 
> John
> 
> [1] http://www.mail-archive.com/emacs-orgmode@gnu.org/msg27941.html

Yup, I missed it that time. Thanks for pointing it out.

Nick

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Samuel Wales]

Hi Nick,

That is a great idea.

Unfortunately, that option is simply not there for me.

In Firefox and emacs-w3m, I only get:

Reader Comments
(*) Allow
( ) Don't allow
Backlinks
( ) Allow
(*) Don't allow

And strangely do not get what you get.  I tried reducing fonts in
Firefox also; the same thing showed up.

I wonder if we are using different versions of Blogger?

Then I went to Settings -> Formatting and found this:

-----

Convert line breaks 	

If Yes is selected, single hard-returns entered in the Post Editor
will be replaced with single <br /> tags in your blog, and two
hard-returns will be replaced with two tags (<br /><br />).

-----

But I set it to No and there was no difference; the paragraphs did not
get filled.

So I guess we are back to my 3 questions: unfill hook, HTML unfill, or
better unfill-region.


Samuel

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Nick Dokos]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:


> In Firefox and emacs-w3m, I only get:
> 
> Reader Comments
> (*) Allow
> ( ) Don't allow
> Backlinks
> ( ) Allow
> (*) Don't allow
> 
> And strangely do not get what you get.  I tried reducing fonts in
> Firefox also; the same thing showed up.
> 
> I wonder if we are using different versions of Blogger?
> 

I get four options (w/Firefox):

Reader comments
Post date and time
Edit HTML Line Breaks
Compose Settings

I don't understand what is going on.

Nick

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Samuel Wales]

Hi Nick,

On 2010-11-16, Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> wrote:
> I get four options (w/Firefox):
>
> Reader comments
> Post date and time
> Edit HTML Line Breaks
> Compose Settings

I get backlinks, which you don't, and I don't get compose and line
breaks, which you do.  Google is funny.  It is possible that the
different editors in Blogger will fix this bug.

By the way, which is standard for HTML to do, convert line breaks or
not?  I'm guessing it's Blogger which does it the wrong way, so I
shouldn't, in principle, be required to unfill.

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Tim Burt]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Nick,
>
> That is a great idea.
>
> Unfortunately, that option is simply not there for me.
>
> In Firefox and emacs-w3m, I only get:
>
> Reader Comments
> (*) Allow
> ( ) Don't allow
> Backlinks
> ( ) Allow
> (*) Don't allow
>
> And strangely do not get what you get.  I tried reducing fonts in
> Firefox also; the same thing showed up.
>
> I wonder if we are using different versions of Blogger?
This might be true.  At the bottom of the Settings | Basic tab is the
entry "Select post editor".  The "Updated editor" has features that
might be apropos to these line break problems.
  http://www.google.com/support/blogger/bin/answer.py?answer=156829

>
> Then I went to Settings -> Formatting and found this:
>
> -----
>
> Convert line breaks 	
>
> If Yes is selected, single hard-returns entered in the Post Editor
> will be replaced with single <br /> tags in your blog, and two
> hard-returns will be replaced with two tags (<br /><br />).
>
> -----
>
> But I set it to No and there was no difference; the paragraphs did not
> get filled.
>
> So I guess we are back to my 3 questions: unfill hook, HTML unfill, or
> better unfill-region.
>
>
> Samuel
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: Re: HTML export and blogging to blogger.com

[Samuel Wales]

Hi Tim,

This looks interesting.  I will try it next.

Which behavior of Blogger is more standard for HTML?

I am guessing that Blogger's default of converting \n to <br> is
non-standard and that browsers are supposed to unfill then fill
paragraphs for you.  But I am new to HTML so I thought I'd confirm.

Thanks.

tea-time?

[henry atting]

http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs-en/tea-time says:

Functionality of this package was integrated into org-mode (edge on May
2009)

Mmh, but where?

Regards
henry

Re: tea-time?

[Sebastian Rose]

M-x customize-group RET org-clock

The second last item is about playing sounds.


  Sebastian

Re: tea-time?

[Samuel Wales]

It is said that tea-time.el is integrated into org, but I have not
found it in the manual or in customize yet, at least not   in a direct
way.

My understanding is that tea-time is something that tells you X, Y
minutes from now.

If it was integrated into org, that suggests to me that I can tell org
that I have to do something in one hour from now, and org will somehow
notify me.

It also suggests the possibility that the modeline will count down
just as it currently counts up in the clock.

But aside from a series of steps, such as create a task, set a time,
run org-agenda-to-appt, or some type of steps involving effort
estimates that I have not investigated yet, I don't know how to tell
org to tell me X in Y minutes.

Is there a way to tell org, "say X in Y minutes"?  If not, what are
the relative merits of appt-add and tea-time and the series of steps?

Thanks.

-- 
Myalgic encephalomyelitis makes you die decades early (Jason
et al. 2006) and suffer severely.  Conflicts of interest are
destroying research.  Silence = death.  Again.
http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm

Re: tea-time?

[Bastien]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> It is said that tea-time.el is integrated into org, but I have not
> found it in the manual or in customize yet, at least not   in a direct
> way.

AFAIK what was implemented so far is a way to display the clocking time
against the effort estimate.

> My understanding is that tea-time is something that tells you X, Y
> minutes from now.

If you have an effort estimate, this is what it does in the modeline:
it tells you that your running clock is 9 minute and that the effort is
one hour.

> If it was integrated into org, that suggests to me that I can tell org
> that I have to do something in one hour from now, and org will somehow
> notify me.

With an effort estimate already in place, this is what it does.  And
when you reach the amount of estimated effort, you get a warning.

> It also suggests the possibility that the modeline will count down
> just as it currently counts up in the clock.
>
> But aside from a series of steps, such as create a task, set a time,
> run org-agenda-to-appt, or some type of steps involving effort
> estimates that I have not investigated yet, I don't know how to tell
> org to tell me X in Y minutes.

The steps are these:

- create a task
- add an effort estimate
- clock in

Let me know if this needs to be refined.

> Is there a way to tell org, "say X in Y minutes"?  If not, what are
> the relative merits of appt-add and tea-time and the series of steps?

What I find not practical in the current set up is that you have to set
an effort estimate *manually* in order to get something like tea-time
provides.  I added a new hook on the repo: org-clock-in-prepare-hook
which makes it easy to modify the task effort property.  

Examples:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
;; Using this hook will set a default effort estimate of 1:00 
;; to each task you clock in and has no effort property.
(add-hook 'org-clock-in-prepare-hook 
	  'my-org-mode-add-default-effort)

(defvar org-clock-default-effort "1:00")

(defun my-org-mode-add-default-effort ()
  "Add a default effort estimation."
  (unless (org-entry-get (point) "Effort")
    (org-set-property "Effort" org-clock-default-effort)))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
;;; Using this hook will let the user 
(add-hook 'org-clock-in-prepare-hook 
	  'my-org-mode-ask-effort)

(defun my-org-mode-ask-effort ()
  "Ask for an effort estimate when clocking in."
  (unless (org-entry-get (point) "Effort")
    (let ((effort 
	   (completing-read 
	    "Effort: "
	    (org-entry-get-multivalued-property (point) "Effort"))))
      (unless (equal effort "")
	(org-set-property "Effort" effort)))))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

I have pushed this example to org-hacks.org on Worg.

HTH,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: tea-time?

[Samuel Wales]

On 2009-07-17, Bastien <bastienguerry@googlemail.com> wrote:
> The steps are these:
>
> - create a task
> - add an effort estimate
> - clock in
>
> Let me know if this needs to be refined.

If a remember template could be made to do it, then maybe the user
could do org-remember, the key for the template, the number of
minutes, and the reminder text.  Does that sound like a reasonable
interface?

Another question.  Let's say you're clocking a task, but you want to
set two reminders.  Can clocking keep track of 3 timers and does it
know what to put in the mode line?  Sounds slightly complicated.

Thanks.

Re: tea-time?

[Bastien]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> On 2009-07-17, Bastien <bastienguerry@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> The steps are these:
>>
>> - create a task
>> - add an effort estimate
>> - clock in
>>
>> Let me know if this needs to be refined.
>
> If a remember template could be made to do it, then maybe the user
> could do org-remember, the key for the template, the number of
> minutes, and the reminder text.  Does that sound like a reasonable
> interface?

To me, yes.  Also check the example hooks I sent in my previous email.

> Another question.  Let's say you're clocking a task, but you want to
> set two reminders.  Can clocking keep track of 3 timers and does it
> know what to put in the mode line?  Sounds slightly complicated.

Well, yes.  Maybe at this point you better do M-x doctor RET

:)

I'm sure you can run several timers at the same time but I'm not sure
whether it would be useful.  

-- 
 Bastien

Re: tea-time?

[Samuel Wales]

My idea was to be thorough, documenting the idea even if it is too
hard to implement.  I think the interface would be the same as now,
except that clicking on the mode line cycles among the timers.

In principle you might be clocking a task while timing a few
tea-time-type tasks (e.g. your tea has steeped, the meat is defrosted,
the laundry is ready for somebody to switch).

tea-time and clocking are different things.  Thus, you might want to
clock without effort, and you might want to simply do org-remember to
start a timer.  Or you might want to do both at the same time.

Unless I am mistaken, your hooks would work for people who want to
clock with effort, but not for those two cases.  At least not without
further code.

This thread started because it was claimed that tea-time was
integrated into org.  Perhaps tea-time should just be used separately
from org?

Thanks.

Re: tea-time?

[Bastien]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> My idea was to be thorough, documenting the idea even if it is too
> hard to implement.  I think the interface would be the same as now,
> except that clicking on the mode line cycles among the timers.
>
> In principle you might be clocking a task while timing a few
> tea-time-type tasks (e.g. your tea has steeped, the meat is defrosted,
> the laundry is ready for somebody to switch).
>
> tea-time and clocking are different things.  Thus, you might want to
> clock without effort, and you might want to simply do org-remember to
> start a timer.  Or you might want to do both at the same time.

I see.

> Unless I am mistaken, your hooks would work for people who want to
> clock with effort, but not for those two cases.  At least not without
> further code.

No you're not mistaken.

> This thread started because it was claimed that tea-time was
> integrated into org.  

(Just for the record, this statement came from emacswiki, not from the
list...  it's hard to keep on eye on emacswiki for such statements!)

I have implemented this tea-time functionality in latest Org.  Now you
can call `org-timer-set-timer' from Org buffers with `C-c C-x ;' and
from Org Agendas with `;'.  You will be prompted for a number of minutes
and you will get a notification about the current headline after this
number of minutes.  You can set up to three timers.  Please test.

Thanks for insisting on this!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: tea-time?

[Samuel Wales]

Hi Bastien,

On 2009-07-26, Bastien <bastienguerry@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> This thread started because it was claimed that tea-time was
>> integrated into org.
>
> (Just for the record, this statement came from emacswiki, not from the
> list...  it's hard to keep on eye on emacswiki for such statements!)

It also seems to be in your commit at:
http://repo.or.cz/w/Worg.git?a=commitdiff;h=35321eebecca824964c01dd5013b0f19dd646b24

:)

> I have implemented this tea-time functionality in latest Org.  Now you
> can call `org-timer-set-timer' from Org buffers with `C-c C-x ;' and
> from Org Agendas with `;'.  You will be prompted for a number of minutes
> and you will get a notification about the current headline after this
> number of minutes.  You can set up to three timers.  Please test.

A remember interface and a horizontal-space-conserving mode line
countdown would work well here, allowing you to not be in org mode and
showing you how many minutes remain.

I tried it and was not reminded.  Does it rely on an external command?

Thanks.

Re: tea-time?

[Samuel Wales]

(Of course, your commit was long after the thread began, but it does
show that number of minutes is different functionality.)

Re: tea-time?

[Bastien]

Hi Samuel,

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> On 2009-07-26, Bastien <bastienguerry@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> This thread started because it was claimed that tea-time was
>>> integrated into org.
>>
>> (Just for the record, this statement came from emacswiki, not from the
>> list...  it's hard to keep on eye on emacswiki for such statements!)
>
> It also seems to be in your commit at:
> http://repo.or.cz/w/Worg.git?a=commitdiff;h=35321eebecca824964c01dd5013b0f19dd646b24

Well, this was the patch I created after the original question about
tea-time on the mailing list...

>> I have implemented this tea-time functionality in latest Org.  Now you
>> can call `org-timer-set-timer' from Org buffers with `C-c C-x ;' and
>> from Org Agendas with `;'.  You will be prompted for a number of minutes
>> and you will get a notification about the current headline after this
>> number of minutes.  You can set up to three timers.  Please test.
>
> A remember interface and a horizontal-space-conserving mode line
> countdown would work well here, allowing you to not be in org mode and
> showing you how many minutes remain.

Agreed.  But I won't have time to code this this week.

> I tried it and was not reminded.  Does it rely on an external command?

See the function `org-show-notification' and the option
`org-show-notification-handler'. 

What is the output of 

  (org-show-notification "Bump!")

?

-- 
 Bastien

Re: tea-time?

[Samuel Wales]

Hi Bastien,

On 2009-07-29, Bastien <bastienguerry@googlemail.com> wrote:
> What is the output of
>
>   (org-show-notification "Bump!")
>
> ?

The string.

Perhaps appt can be added to the fallbacks?

Re: tea-time?

[Bastien]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> Perhaps appt can be added to the fallbacks?

Nope.  org-show-notification is called by a timer, so adding a timer to
a timer would be confusing IMO.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: tea-time?

[Bastien]

Hi Samuel,

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> I tried it and was not reminded.  Does it rely on an external command?

Please provide more information on how you tried it.

From the buffer?  From the agenda?  What is the value of
org-show-notification-handler?

-- 
 Bastien

Re: tea-time?

[Samuel Wales]

Hi Bastien,

I did not realize that appt could not be used.

On 2009-07-29, Bastien <bastienguerry@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Please provide more information on how you tried it.

It works now.  I pulled in the interim, but I don't know if that's the
reason.  I tried it twice, so I don't think I missed the notification.

However, the notification is in the minibuffer / echo area, and can
easily be unnoticed if you are typing, as it goes away immediately.

These are just brainstorm ideas, but appt pops up a window for a
configurable number of seconds and raises the frame.

The mode line can show the number of minutes overdue.

type-break.el uses persistent minibuffer text and lets you control
whether you continue to be reminded.

Raising the frame is important, but beyond that I am not sure which is best.

As for sound, I have disabled all emacs sound, but this would be the
one thing that would be good to have it enabled for; not sure how to
enable it just for this pupose.  Perhaps org could use let or flet at
notification time if a variable is non-nil.

Thanks.

Re: tea-time?

[Nick Dokos]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Bastien,
> 
> I did not realize that appt could not be used.
> 
> On 2009-07-29, Bastien <bastienguerry@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Please provide more information on how you tried it.
> 
> It works now.  I pulled in the interim, but I don't know if that's the
> reason.  I tried it twice, so I don't think I missed the notification.
> 
> However, the notification is in the minibuffer / echo area, and can
> easily be unnoticed if you are typing, as it goes away immediately.
> 
> These are just brainstorm ideas, but appt pops up a window for a
> configurable number of seconds and raises the frame.
> 
> The mode line can show the number of minutes overdue.
> 
> type-break.el uses persistent minibuffer text and lets you control
> whether you continue to be reminded.
> 
> Raising the frame is important, but beyond that I am not sure which is best.
> 
> As for sound, I have disabled all emacs sound, but this would be the
> one thing that would be good to have it enabled for; not sure how to
> enable it just for this pupose.  Perhaps org could use let or flet at
> notification time if a variable is non-nil.
> 

If you like how your appointments are shown, you can use the appt display
mechanism, by setting org-show-notification-handler to something like this:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(defun my-org-show-notification-handler (notification)
  (funcall appt-disp-window-function "0" (current-time-string) notification))

(setq org-show-notification-handler (function my-org-show-notification-handler))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

HTH,
Nick

Re: tea-time?

[Bastien]

Hi Nick,

Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:

> If you like how your appointments are shown, you can use the appt display
> mechanism, by setting org-show-notification-handler to something like this:
>
> (defun my-org-show-notification-handler (notification)
>   (funcall appt-disp-window-function "0" (current-time-string) notification))
>
> (setq org-show-notification-handler (function my-org-show-notification-handler))

Nice -- could you post this on Worg?

I have very little time myself for this right now...

Thanks!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: tea-time?

[Eric S Fraga]

At Wed, 29 Jul 2009 18:29:19 -0400,
Nick Dokos wrote:
> 
> Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Bastien,
> > 
> > I did not realize that appt could not be used.
> > 
> > On 2009-07-29, Bastien <bastienguerry@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > Please provide more information on how you tried it.
> > 
> > It works now.  I pulled in the interim, but I don't know if that's the
> > reason.  I tried it twice, so I don't think I missed the notification.
> > 
> > However, the notification is in the minibuffer / echo area, and can
> > easily be unnoticed if you are typing, as it goes away immediately.

Samuel,

you could investigate the linking of appt appointment notifications
with external display tools, such as libnotify and osd methods.  An
example is given by Richard Riley in this message in the mailing list
archives:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/8235

I use something similar and following is a code extract from my .emacs
based on some of Richard's and Nick's codes:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
;; and from RichardRiley's entry: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/OrgMode-OSD
;; and from Nick Dokos: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/5271
(require 'appt)
(defun rgr/xml-escape (s)
  (setq s (replace-regexp-in-string "'" "&apos;" 
  (replace-regexp-in-string "\"" "&quot;"
  (replace-regexp-in-string "&" "&amp;" 
  (replace-regexp-in-string "<" "&lt;"
  (replace-regexp-in-string ">" "&gt;" s)))))))

(when window-system
  (defun rgr/osd-display (id msg &optional delay vattrib hattrib font) 
    "Display a message msg using OSD. Currently requires gnome-osd-client"
    (unless vattrib (setq vattrib "top"))
    (unless hattrib (setq hattrib "right"))
    (unless delay (setq delay 5000))
    (unless font (setq font "Arial 12"))
    (save-window-excursion
      (shell-command
       (format
	"gnome-osd-client -f \"<message id='%s' osd_fake_translucent_bg='on' osd_font='%s' animations='on' hide_timeout='%d' osd_vposition='%s' osd_halignment='%s'>%s</message>\""    
	id
	font
	delay
	vattrib
	hattrib
	(rgr/xml-escape msg)
	))))
  (defun esf/notification-display (msg min-to-app new-time)
    (save-window-excursion
      (shell-command
       (format "notify-send -t 0 -i /home/ucecesf/s/share/emacs-icon.xpm 'Agenda' \"In %s minutes:\n%s\"" min-to-app msg))))
)
(when window-system

  (setq appt-display-format 'window)
  
  (defun org-osd-display (min-to-app new-time msg)
    ; (rgr/osd-display msg msg -1 "center" "left" "Deja Vu Sans 20")
    (esf/notification-display msg min-to-app new-time)
    ; (message (format "executing notify-send %s minutes with message %s" min-to-app msg))
    )
  
  (setq appt-disp-window-function (function org-osd-display))
  
  ;; Run once, activate and schedule refresh
  (run-at-time nil 3600 'org-agenda-to-appt)
  (appt-activate t))

(setq appt-time-msg-list nil)
(org-agenda-to-appt)

(defadvice  org-agenda-redo (after org-agenda-redo-add-appts)
  "Pressing `r' on the agenda will also add appointments."
  (progn 
    (setq appt-time-msg-list nil)
    (org-agenda-to-appt)))

(ad-activate 'org-agenda-redo)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

This code uses the notification system built-in to Gnome/Kde/et
al. and pops up a little window.  Of course, this assumes you are
using X windows.  If you're using MS, I don't have anything to help
you unfortunately.

eric

Re: tea-time?

[Richard Riley]

Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> At Wed, 29 Jul 2009 18:29:19 -0400,
> Nick Dokos wrote:
>> 
>> Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > Hi Bastien,
>> > 
>> > I did not realize that appt could not be used.
>> > 
>> > On 2009-07-29, Bastien <bastienguerry@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> > > Please provide more information on how you tried it.
>> > 
>> > It works now.  I pulled in the interim, but I don't know if that's the
>> > reason.  I tried it twice, so I don't think I missed the notification.
>> > 
>> > However, the notification is in the minibuffer / echo area, and can
>> > easily be unnoticed if you are typing, as it goes away immediately.
>
> Samuel,
>
> you could investigate the linking of appt appointment notifications
> with external display tools, such as libnotify and osd methods.  An
> example is given by Richard Riley in this message in the mailing list
> archives:
>
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/8235
>
> I use something similar and following is a code extract from my .emacs
> based on some of Richard's and Nick's codes:
>
>
>
> ;; and from RichardRiley's entry: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/OrgMode-OSD
> ;; and from Nick Dokos: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/5271
> (require 'appt)
> (defun rgr/xml-escape (s)
>   (setq s (replace-regexp-in-string "'" "&apos;" 
>   (replace-regexp-in-string "\"" "&quot;"
>   (replace-regexp-in-string "&" "&amp;" 
>   (replace-regexp-in-string "<" "&lt;"
>   (replace-regexp-in-string ">" "&gt;" s)))))))
>
> (when window-system
>   (defun rgr/osd-display (id msg &optional delay vattrib hattrib font) 
>     "Display a message msg using OSD. Currently requires gnome-osd-client"
>     (unless vattrib (setq vattrib "top"))
>     (unless hattrib (setq hattrib "right"))
>     (unless delay (setq delay 5000))
>     (unless font (setq font "Arial 12"))
>     (save-window-excursion
>       (shell-command
>        (format
> 	"gnome-osd-client -f \"<message id='%s' osd_fake_translucent_bg='on' osd_font='%s' animations='on' hide_timeout='%d' osd_vposition='%s' osd_halignment='%s'>%s</message>\""    
> 	id
> 	font
> 	delay
> 	vattrib
> 	hattrib
> 	(rgr/xml-escape msg)
> 	))))
>   (defun esf/notification-display (msg min-to-app new-time)
>     (save-window-excursion
>       (shell-command
>        (format "notify-send -t 0 -i /home/ucecesf/s/share/emacs-icon.xpm 'Agenda' \"In %s minutes:\n%s\"" min-to-app msg))))
> )
> (when window-system
>
>   (setq appt-display-format 'window)
>   
>   (defun org-osd-display (min-to-app new-time msg)
>     ; (rgr/osd-display msg msg -1 "center" "left" "Deja Vu Sans 20")
>     (esf/notification-display msg min-to-app new-time)
>     ; (message (format "executing notify-send %s minutes with message %s" min-to-app msg))
>     )
>   
>   (setq appt-disp-window-function (function org-osd-display))
>   
>   ;; Run once, activate and schedule refresh
>   (run-at-time nil 3600 'org-agenda-to-appt)
>   (appt-activate t))
>
> (setq appt-time-msg-list nil)
> (org-agenda-to-appt)
>
> (defadvice  org-agenda-redo (after org-agenda-redo-add-appts)
>   "Pressing `r' on the agenda will also add appointments."
>   (progn 
>     (setq appt-time-msg-list nil)
>     (org-agenda-to-appt)))
>
> (ad-activate 'org-agenda-redo)


On that subject I dont use that stuff anymore, but use this on gnome for
erc notifications directed at me (so if erc buffers are hidden I get a
pop up when someone directs at msg directly at me). Its a lot nicer than
OSD imo and the code (primarily from Andy Stewart) could easily be adjusted
for your Org needs too:

,----
| (defvar erc-nick-notify-last '(0 0 0))
| (defvar erc-nick-notify-delay '(0 5 0))
| (defvar erc-nick-notify-cmd "notify-send")
| (defvar erc-nick-notify-icon "~/images/mail.png")
| (defvar erc-nick-notify-timeout 10000)
| (defvar erc-nick-notify-urgency "low")
| (defvar erc-nick-notify-category "im.received")
| 
| (add-hook 'erc-text-matched-hook
|               (lambda (match-type nickuserhost message)
|                 (cond
|                   ((eq match-type 'current-nick)
| 		      (if (eq (string-match (concat (erc-current-nick) ":") message) 0) (shell-command (concat erc-nick-notify-cmd
| 					     " -i " erc-nick-notify-icon
| 					     " -t " (int-to-string
| 						     erc-nick-notify-timeout)
| 					     " -c " erc-nick-notify-category
| 					     " '" message "'")))))))
`----

It might be of interest to someone.

Re: tea-time?

[Bastien]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> It works now.  I pulled in the interim, but I don't know if that's the
> reason.  I tried it twice, so I don't think I missed the notification.
>
> However, the notification is in the minibuffer / echo area, and can
> easily be unnoticed if you are typing, as it goes away immediately.
>
> These are just brainstorm ideas, but appt pops up a window for a
> configurable number of seconds and raises the frame.
>
> The mode line can show the number of minutes overdue.
>
> type-break.el uses persistent minibuffer text and lets you control
> whether you continue to be reminded.
>
> Raising the frame is important, but beyond that I am not sure which is best.
>
> As for sound, I have disabled all emacs sound, but this would be the
> one thing that would be good to have it enabled for; not sure how to
> enable it just for this pupose.  Perhaps org could use let or flet at
> notification time if a variable is non-nil.

Thanks for these ideas.  

I'm busy the next following days, I will work back on this on sunday.

-- 
 Bastien

How to make kill-sexp work as in the rest of Emacs?

[Samuel Wales]

I like doing kill-sexp to kill a "quoted string like this".  How do I
get that to
work again?

Thanks.

Samuel

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

Re: How to make kill-sexp work as in the rest of Emacs?

[Nick Dokos]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:

> I like doing kill-sexp to kill a "quoted string like this".  How do I
> get that to
> work again?
> 

It does not work the same way in the "rest of emacs": sexp commands
behave differently depending on the mode. You can e.g.

   (set-syntax-table lisp-mode-syntax-table)

and then the sexp commands will behave lispishly. C-mode buffers do
the equivalent of

   (set-syntax-table c-mode-syntax-table)

and text mode buffers (of which org-mode is a derived mode) do

   (set-syntax-table text-mode-syntax-table)

Setting the syntax table to e.g. the lisp mode one will certainly allow
you to kill quoted strings with kill-sexp. Whether it has other, less
desirable consequences, I don't know: you'll just have to try and see.

Nick




    

Re: How to make kill-sexp work as in the rest of Emacs?

[Samuel Wales]

On 8/27/12, Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> wrote:
> It does not work the same way in the "rest of emacs": sexp commands
> behave differently depending on the mode. You can e.g.

I should have made it clear that I understood that.  I want to know
how to just fix that one thing.

Samuel

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

Re: How to make kill-sexp work as in the rest of Emacs?

[Nick Dokos]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 8/27/12, Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> wrote:
> > It does not work the same way in the "rest of emacs": sexp commands
> > behave differently depending on the mode. You can e.g.
> 
> I should have made it clear that I understood that.  I want to know
> how to just fix that one thing.
> 

Try

  (modify-syntax-entry ?\" "\"")

in the org buffer. If you want it in every org buffer, I would
modify org-mode in org.el with the above.

Nick

Re: How to make kill-sexp work as in the rest of Emacs?

[Samuel Wales]

On 8/27/12, Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> wrote:
>   (modify-syntax-entry ?\" "\"")

Works great.  I will put it in org mode hook.

Thanks.

Samuel

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

Re: How to make kill-sexp work as in the rest of Emacs?

[Bastien]

Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:

> Try
>
>   (modify-syntax-entry ?\" "\"")

This is now the default in master.  

(Note that it will not be part of the 7.9.1 release, made from 
the "maint" branch.  I think such changes  belong to a major
release.)

Thanks to you and Samuel for this!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: tea-time?

[Bernt Hansen]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> Is there a way to tell org, "say X in Y minutes"?  If not, what are
> the relative merits of appt-add and tea-time and the series of steps?

I use appt for this as described here:
http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html#Reminders

It puts a message in the mode line e.g. (App't in 6 min.) and beeps at
12, 9, 6, 3, and 0 minutes for me.

HTH
-Bernt