org-odt and bibliography

org-odt and bibliography

[Henri-Paul Indiogine]

Greetings!

I am starting to use org-odt and I find it very useful.  I am wondering
whether it is possible to export also my bibliography.   In the org file
I have the following:

---------------------------------------------------------------
blah blah blah \cite<cf>{Apple:1992a,Payne:1999a,Martin:2003a}.
blah blah blah
---------------------------------------------------------------


Then later:
------------------------------------------------------------
\bibliographystyle{apacite}
\bibliography{/home/henk/Dropbox/dissertation/bibdata-neuf}
------------------------------------------------------------

The above text from the org file is transferred verbatim to the odt
file.  The same happens to the footnotes.

I understand that the org-odt code is still under development and that
the developer is doing this from the goodness of his heart.  I am just
wondering whether I am missing something, doing something incorrectly,
or this is maybe going to be a future feature.

Thanks,
Henri-Paul


-- 
Henri-Paul Indiogine
Email: hindiogine@gmail.com
Running: Ubuntu Linux 10.10, Emacs 24.0.50.1, org-mode 7.5

Re: org-odt and bibliography

[Jambunathan K]

Hello Henri

org-odt doesn't support bibliographic content. So what you are reporting
is what is expected.

I am no academic or a researcher. So I have no understanding of
bibliographies - their representation, management etc. 

If you send me an Org file and a HAND-CRAFTED odt file matching it then
I would be able to reverse-engineer the odt document that you supply,
understand what meets your needs and add support for the same.

From the OpenOffice UI, I remember seeing entries for creating
Bibliographic indices etc. So I would assume that Bibliographic content
can be represented in a much native manner with OpenDocument formats.

Jambunathan K.

> Greetings!
>
> I am starting to use org-odt and I find it very useful.  I am wondering
> whether it is possible to export also my bibliography.   In the org file
> I have the following:
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> blah blah blah \cite<cf>{Apple:1992a,Payne:1999a,Martin:2003a}.
> blah blah blah
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Then later:
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> \bibliographystyle{apacite}
> \bibliography{/home/henk/Dropbox/dissertation/bibdata-neuf}
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The above text from the org file is transferred verbatim to the odt
> file.  The same happens to the footnotes.
>
> I understand that the org-odt code is still under development and that
> the developer is doing this from the goodness of his heart.  I am just
> wondering whether I am missing something, doing something incorrectly,
> or this is maybe going to be a future feature.
>
> Thanks,
> Henri-Paul

-- 

Re: org-odt and bibliography

[suvayu ali]

Hi Jambunathan,

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> wrote:
> From the OpenOffice UI, I remember seeing entries for creating
> Bibliographic indices etc. So I would assume that Bibliographic content
> can be represented in a much native manner with OpenDocument formats.
>

I don't use the OpenOffice facility for bibliographies myself but if
you are interested, the link below might prove helpful.

<http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOoAuthors_User_Manual/Writer_Guide/Creating_a_bibliography>

-- 
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.

Re: org-odt and bibliography

[Henri-Paul Indiogine]

Dear Jambunathan:

Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> writes:
> If you send me an Org file and a HAND-CRAFTED odt file matching it then
> I would be able to reverse-engineer the odt document that you supply,
> understand what meets your needs and add support for the same.

I am writing a proposal+dissertation.  The thesis office accepts
LaTeX/pdf formats and I love LaTeX.  So far I have always used the org
-> LaTeX conversion.

However, my advisor uses the &#$@! MS Word and wants doc format.  So, I
thought about exporting to odt and then save-as in doc from LibreOffice.

The conversion from org -> LaTeX -> pdf works quite well with my
bibliography.  I have never done a bibliography in odt format.  I only
use LibreOffice to open doc files.  So, I do not know about bibliography
in odt because I do my bibliography in org/LaTeX where it works quite
well.

I will look into whether it is possible to convert from bibtex to odt.

Best,
Henri-Paul

-- 
Henri-Paul Indiogine
Email: hindiogine@gmail.com
Running: Ubuntu Linux 10.10, Emacs 24.0.50.1, org-mode 7.5

org-odt and bibliography

[Henri-Paul Indiogine]

Hi Torsten!

2011/7/7 Torsten Anders <torsten.anders@beds.ac.uk>:
> For bibliographies in MS Word and/or OpenOffice you may wan to check out Zotero (http://www.zotero.org/) and its extensions for these platforms.

Yes, good idea.  I installed Zotero.  Too bad there is no extension
for Chrome, but using Firefox is still much, much better than using
IE.  Which I could not because I run Ubuntu Linux.


> PS: If you are writing a thesis and you may later want to publish things, then it is useful to follow the advice of your supervisor and also be able to have your text in a word processor format, as many publishers require such a format (granted, some will also accept Latex).


Yes, but the sad thing is that using emacs+orgmode is so fast, easy
and productive.   Writer or Word feel so clunky and backwards.  They
are simply painful to use.   I also like the black background and
faces of my personalized Emacs configuration.   My fingers fly over
the keyboard in Emacs and lines of text appear almost magically :-)

Best,
HP




-- 
Henri-Paul Indiogine

Curriculum & Instruction
Texas A&M University
TutorFind Learning Centre

Email: hindiogine@gmail.com
Skype: hindiogine
Website: http://people.cehd.tamu.edu/~sindiogine

Re: org-odt and bibliography

[Matt Price]

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On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 7:27 PM, Henri-Paul Indiogine
<hindiogine@gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi Torsten!
>
> 2011/7/7 Torsten Anders <torsten.anders@beds.ac.uk>:
> > For bibliographies in MS Word and/or OpenOffice you may wan to check out
> Zotero (http://www.zotero.org/) and its extensions for these platforms.
>
> Yes, good idea.  I installed Zotero.  Too bad there is no extension
> for Chrome, but using Firefox is still much, much better than using
> IE.  Which I could not because I run Ubuntu Linux.
>

The zotero Standalone Alpha has a Chrome extension.  I think using Zotero is
a much better bet than trying to use the native OOo bibliographic features
which were always very primitive, never really expanded as they were
supposed to be, and have, I believe, more or less rotted in the last several
years.   there have been threads on this list about using zotero with
org-mode; now that org-odt as been incorporated into the org relase (yay!)
maybe someone will figure out how to translate zotero ids into odt documents
using the command-line version of OOo or something.

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Re: org-odt and bibliography

[Henri-Paul Indiogine]

Hi Matt!

2011/7/7 Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com>:
> The zotero Standalone Alpha has a Chrome extension.  I think using Zotero is
> a much better bet than trying to use the native OOo bibliographic features
> which were always very primitive, never really expanded as they were
> supposed to be, and have, I believe, more or less rotted in the last several
> years.   there have been threads on this list about using zotero with
> org-mode; now that org-odt as been incorporated into the org relase (yay!)
> maybe someone will figure out how to translate zotero ids into odt documents
> using the command-line version of OOo or something.

I know close to nothing about Zotero except that I have installed the
extensions for Firefox and LibreOffice.

I am willing to install the standalone Zotero. It has connectors for
Chrome and OpenOffice, so that should work.

Thanks,
Henri-Paul

-- 
Henri-Paul Indiogine

Curriculum & Instruction
Texas A&M University
TutorFind Learning Centre

Email: hindiogine@gmail.com
Skype: hindiogine
Website: http://people.cehd.tamu.edu/~sindiogine

Re: org-odt and bibliography

[Christian Moe]

Hi,

I regret to agree about the OOo bibliographic features.

Zotero is very nice, but getting Zotero IDs into an Org-mode document 
(see Eric Hetzner's zotero-plain, 
https://bitbucket.org/egh/zotero-plain) and then into OOo in a form 
where they'll be useful (no ready solution I know of) is a somewhat 
complex task. If Bibtex is your starting point and you want to 
maintain your bibliography in Bibtex (and why wouldn't you, if you can 
/deliver/ your work as LaTeX/PDF), the round trip will be more complex 
and fragile yet.

What are your minimal bibliographic requirements for documents to send 
your supervisor? If you're using author-date citations and a reference 
list, I might have a crude stopgap.

Yours,
Christian



On 7/8/11 3:40 AM, Henri-Paul Indiogine wrote:
> Hi Matt!
>
> 2011/7/7 Matt Price<moptop99@gmail.com>:
>> The zotero Standalone Alpha has a Chrome extension.  I think using Zotero is
>> a much better bet than trying to use the native OOo bibliographic features
>> which were always very primitive, never really expanded as they were
>> supposed to be, and have, I believe, more or less rotted in the last several
>> years.   there have been threads on this list about using zotero with
>> org-mode; now that org-odt as been incorporated into the org relase (yay!)
>> maybe someone will figure out how to translate zotero ids into odt documents
>> using the command-line version of OOo or something.
>
> I know close to nothing about Zotero except that I have installed the
> extensions for Firefox and LibreOffice.
>
> I am willing to install the standalone Zotero. It has connectors for
> Chrome and OpenOffice, so that should work.
>
> Thanks,
> Henri-Paul
>

Re: org-odt and bibliography

[Torsten Wagner]

There is jabref [1].
A standalone Java application, which uses the bib-format as native 
solution. Thus it could play nicely with org-mode. Since it will still 
remain all in a bib file.

The feature set is already outstanding compared to many other solutions. 
There is a emacs interaction as well to push \cite-keys to emacs.

It also claims to have a Openoffice support
never tried.

Totti

[1] http://jabref.sourceforge.net/



On 07/08/2011 01:56 PM, Christian Moe wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I regret to agree about the OOo bibliographic features.
>
> Zotero is very nice, but getting Zotero IDs into an Org-mode document
> (see Eric Hetzner's zotero-plain,
> https://bitbucket.org/egh/zotero-plain) and then into OOo in a form
> where they'll be useful (no ready solution I know of) is a somewhat
> complex task. If Bibtex is your starting point and you want to maintain
> your bibliography in Bibtex (and why wouldn't you, if you can /deliver/
> your work as LaTeX/PDF), the round trip will be more complex and fragile
> yet.
>
> What are your minimal bibliographic requirements for documents to send
> your supervisor? If you're using author-date citations and a reference
> list, I might have a crude stopgap.
>
> Yours,
> Christian
>
>
>
> On 7/8/11 3:40 AM, Henri-Paul Indiogine wrote:
>> Hi Matt!
>>
>> 2011/7/7 Matt Price<moptop99@gmail.com>:
>>> The zotero Standalone Alpha has a Chrome extension. I think using
>>> Zotero is
>>> a much better bet than trying to use the native OOo bibliographic
>>> features
>>> which were always very primitive, never really expanded as they were
>>> supposed to be, and have, I believe, more or less rotted in the last
>>> several
>>> years. there have been threads on this list about using zotero with
>>> org-mode; now that org-odt as been incorporated into the org relase
>>> (yay!)
>>> maybe someone will figure out how to translate zotero ids into odt
>>> documents
>>> using the command-line version of OOo or something.
>>
>> I know close to nothing about Zotero except that I have installed the
>> extensions for Firefox and LibreOffice.
>>
>> I am willing to install the standalone Zotero. It has connectors for
>> Chrome and OpenOffice, so that should work.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Henri-Paul
>>
>
>

Re: org-odt and bibliography

[Rasmus]

Torsten Wagner <torsten.wagner@gmail.com> writes:
> There is jabref [1].
Exactly. I was also going to point out JabRef. I have had Bibtex
illiterates manageing Bib files using JabRef.

> It also claims to have a Openoffice support
> never tried.

I tried it once and it works very nice. There were annoying limitations
in OOo built-in bib. manager. I know JabRef used the proper solution
cause references and the litterature list was set in the document with
that grey color that is also used by the TOC.

Hence, if you are going to use a bib-file in OOo JabRef seems to be the
way to go. Still, an Org-Centric solutoin based on \cite would be best.

–Rasmus

-- 
Sent from my Emacs

Re: org-odt and bibliography

[Henri-Paul Indiogine]

Hi Christian!

2011/7/7 Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com>:
> Zotero is very nice, but getting Zotero IDs into an Org-mode document (see
> Eric Hetzner's zotero-plain, https://bitbucket.org/egh/zotero-plain) and
> then into OOo in a form where they'll be useful (no ready solution I know
> of) is a somewhat complex task. If Bibtex is your starting point and you
> want to maintain your bibliography in Bibtex (and why wouldn't you, if you
> can /deliver/ your work as LaTeX/PDF), the round trip will be more complex
> and fragile yet.


Yes, I agree.


> What are your minimal bibliographic requirements for documents to send your
> supervisor? If you're using author-date citations and a reference list, I
> might have a crude stopgap.

Yes, that would do it. Thanks a bunch!

Best,
HP

-- 
Henri-Paul Indiogine

Curriculum & Instruction
Texas A&M University
TutorFind Learning Centre

Email: hindiogine@gmail.com
Skype: hindiogine
Website: http://people.cehd.tamu.edu/~sindiogine

Re: org-odt and bibliography

[Torsten Anders]

Dear Henri-Paul, 

On 8 Jul 2011, at 00:27, Henri-Paul Indiogine wrote:
> Yes, but the sad thing is that using emacs+orgmode is so fast, easy
> and productive.   Writer or Word feel so clunky and backwards. 

Sure, you can write with orgmode and then export for your supervisor to OpenOffice/Word. I recently wrote a paper that way (before there was the now available export, using latex2rtf).

Concerning references, I suggest for the draft you simply put in plain-text placeholders in (Author year) form. Your supervisor is probably happy with that at the drafting stage, and you can easily and quickly replace them later with whatever format you want, e.g., Zotero entries (you can even write your bibliography by hand, as your supervisor possibly does :).

Best,
Torsten