M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

For the past couple of weeks I'm finding that both M-RET and C-RET turn
the line under point into a heading, instead of inserting a new heading
elsewhere. This happens with `org-M-RET-may-split-line' set to anything.

So this:

#+begin_src org
* Chapter One
:PROPERTIES:
:some_prop: t
:END:
In which not [point is here] very much happens. But this is a further test to see
what happens on multiline text.
#+end_src

becomes:

#+begin_src org
* Chapter One
:PROPERTIES:
:some_prop: t
:END:
* In which not very much happens. But this is a further test to see
what happens on multiline text.
#+end_src

This also happens with emacs -Q. Has no one else seen this?

Thanks,
Eric

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Christian Moe]

Hi,

My user input is partially to blame for this, I think. See toward the
end of this thread:

http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/69794

I was under the impression that the behavior of M-RET had changed, but I
may have given a wrong or incomplete description of the "old behavior" I
seemed to remember and wanted back. I agree that the current behavior
does not seem ideal either.

Here's some more misguided user input: Wouldn't it be intuitive if M-RET
at the beginning of a line turned that line into a heading (as it
currently does), but M-RET at the end of a line inserted a new heading
below (would require a change from the current workings)? Not sure about
M-RET somewhere in the middle of a line.

Yours,
Christian


Eric Abrahamsen writes:

> For the past couple of weeks I'm finding that both M-RET and C-RET turn
> the line under point into a heading, instead of inserting a new heading
> elsewhere. This happens with `org-M-RET-may-split-line' set to anything.
>
> So this:
>
> #+begin_src org
> * Chapter One
> :PROPERTIES:
> :some_prop: t
> :END:
> In which not [point is here] very much happens. But this is a further test to see
> what happens on multiline text.
> #+end_src
>
> becomes:
>
> #+begin_src org
> * Chapter One
> :PROPERTIES:
> :some_prop: t
> :END:
> * In which not very much happens. But this is a further test to see
> what happens on multiline text.
> #+end_src
>
> This also happens with emacs -Q. Has no one else seen this?
>
> Thanks,
> Eric

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> My user input is partially to blame for this, I think. See toward the
> end of this thread:
>
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/69749
>
> I was under the impression that the behavior of M-RET had changed, but I
> may have given a wrong or incomplete description of the "old behavior" I
> seemed to remember and wanted back. I agree that the current behavior
> does not seem ideal either.
>
> Here's some more misguided user input: Wouldn't it be intuitive if M-RET
> at the beginning of a line turned that line into a heading (as it
> currently does), but M-RET at the end of a line inserted a new heading
> below (would require a change from the current workings)? Not sure about
> M-RET somewhere in the middle of a line.

Hey, I'm all about misguided user input :)

I read that brief thread, and it looks like there was a call for
opinions that I missed! Better late than never...

I don't see why `org-ctrl-c-star' --> `org-toggle-heading' isn't enough
for creating headlines out of existing text. At the very least, we
shouldn't now have three keystrokes (C-c *, M-RET, C-RET) that do the
same thing! Also, `org-M-RET-may-split-line', which was once a very
interesting variable, now does nothing since M-RET simply doesn't split
the line.

Or am I missing something about the new arrangement?

However it falls out, I would love to have two commands back: one that
starts a new heading under point, and one that starts a new heading at
the end of the current subtree. Ie, what M-RET and C-RET used to do...

Eric

> Yours,
> Christian
>
>
> Eric Abrahamsen writes:
>
>> For the past couple of weeks I'm finding that both M-RET and C-RET turn
>> the line under point into a heading, instead of inserting a new heading
>> elsewhere. This happens with `org-M-RET-may-split-line' set to anything.
>>
>> So this:
>>
>> #+begin_src org
>> * Chapter One
>> :PROPERTIES:
>> :some_prop: t
>> :END:
>> In which not [point is here] very much happens. But this is a further test to see
>> what happens on multiline text.
>> #+end_src
>>
>> becomes:
>>
>> #+begin_src org
>> * Chapter One
>> :PROPERTIES:
>> :some_prop: t
>> :END:
>> * In which not very much happens. But this is a further test to see
>> what happens on multiline text.
>> #+end_src
>>
>> This also happens with emacs -Q. Has no one else seen this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Eric

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Christian Moe]

Eric Abrahamsen writes:

> I don't see why `org-ctrl-c-star' --> `org-toggle-heading' isn't enough
> for creating headlines out of existing text. 

Fair point, but I find it useful to have a simpler and speedier
combination, redundant or not. For instance, I often use Org to make
structured documents out of plain text, text copy-pasted from PDFs etc.,
which involves scrolling through the document and repeatedly turning the
lines at point into headings. It quickly becomes a nuisance to do this
with a sequence of two double keypresses (`C-c *', that is, `C-c S-8' --
not to mention that I routinely switch between keyboards for three
languages with somewhat different ideas where `*' should be).

> At the very least, we shouldn't now have three keystrokes (C-c *,
> M-RET, C-RET) that do the same thing! Also,
> `org-M-RET-may-split-line', which was once a very interesting
> variable, now does nothing since M-RET simply doesn't split the line.

True. I think this needs to be revisited (before too many people get
used to the recent arrangement).

Yours,
Christian

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen writes:
>
>> I don't see why `org-ctrl-c-star' --> `org-toggle-heading' isn't enough
>> for creating headlines out of existing text. 
>
> Fair point, but I find it useful to have a simpler and speedier
> combination, redundant or not. For instance, I often use Org to make
> structured documents out of plain text, text copy-pasted from PDFs etc.,
> which involves scrolling through the document and repeatedly turning the
> lines at point into headings. It quickly becomes a nuisance to do this
> with a sequence of two double keypresses (`C-c *', that is, `C-c S-8' --
> not to mention that I routinely switch between keyboards for three
> languages with somewhat different ideas where `*' should be).
>
>> At the very least, we shouldn't now have three keystrokes (C-c *,
>> M-RET, C-RET) that do the same thing! Also,
>> `org-M-RET-may-split-line', which was once a very interesting
>> variable, now does nothing since M-RET simply doesn't split the line.
>
> True. I think this needs to be revisited (before too many people get
> used to the recent arrangement).

Ugh, I've had plenty of experience trying to impose structure on
unstructured text. PDF copy-n-paste is a nightmare, particular where
columns were involved.

However! Having a useful set of commands is one thing, and having useful
keybindings for those commands is another. M-RET/C-RET are still pretty
crucial for taking notes out of thin air. They each have their own
behavior when point is at beginning, middle, and end of line, as well,
and I'd hope that all would be left in place.

`org-ctrl-c-star' either calls `org-table-recalculate' or
`org-toggle-heading', which are strange bedfellows. The key chord seems
much more tied to table recalculation (there are multiple various
behaviors triggered by prefix args) than to heading toggling. We might
consider splitting `org-toggle-heading' off onto its own key.

Or perhaps it would be enough tweak keybindings? Maybe leave the current
bindings and behavior of `org-ctrl-c-star', but add the "fat finger"
bindings of 'C-c 8' and 'C-c C-8' to `org-ctrl-c-star' (or even bind
them directly to `org-toggle-heading').

It would be inelegant, but that way you could park a pinkie on the
control key, and travel through a buffer with 'C-s' or '(C-u, C-<digit>)
C-n', hitting 'C-c C-8' as needed.

Just one possibility,

E

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[John Hendy]

On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 2:54 AM, Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> My user input is partially to blame for this, I think. See toward the
> end of this thread:
>
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/69794
>
> I was under the impression that the behavior of M-RET had changed, but I
> may have given a wrong or incomplete description of the "old behavior" I
> seemed to remember and wanted back. I agree that the current behavior
> does not seem ideal either.
>
> Here's some more misguided user input: Wouldn't it be intuitive if M-RET
> at the beginning of a line turned that line into a heading (as it
> currently does), but M-RET at the end of a line inserted a new heading
> below (would require a change from the current workings)? Not sure about
> M-RET somewhere in the middle of a line.


I've been following this thread and there has been some great
discussion about future plans for re-write and context-sensitive
functionality. In the mean time, can we revert the C-RET behavior back
to adding a new headline? I'm finding it incredibly frustration to
have no way to just add a new headline below the current contents of a
headline, even if it's folded. I'm adding some individuals to my
contact file and have no way to just M-RET or C-RET to add a new
headline quickly except to navigate and manually type a series of *'s.

If we could return one of these to the "old" functionality, that would
be great. (Or a recommended new way to just add a headline vs.
transforming the last line into a header.)


Thanks,
John

>
> Yours,
> Christian
>
>
> Eric Abrahamsen writes:
>
>> For the past couple of weeks I'm finding that both M-RET and C-RET turn
>> the line under point into a heading, instead of inserting a new heading
>> elsewhere. This happens with `org-M-RET-may-split-line' set to anything.
>>
>> So this:
>>
>> #+begin_src org
>> * Chapter One
>> :PROPERTIES:
>> :some_prop: t
>> :END:
>> In which not [point is here] very much happens. But this is a further test to see
>> what happens on multiline text.
>> #+end_src
>>
>> becomes:
>>
>> #+begin_src org
>> * Chapter One
>> :PROPERTIES:
>> :some_prop: t
>> :END:
>> * In which not very much happens. But this is a further test to see
>> what happens on multiline text.
>> #+end_src
>>
>> This also happens with emacs -Q. Has no one else seen this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Eric
>
>

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[John Hendy]

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:54 AM, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 2:54 AM, Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> My user input is partially to blame for this, I think. See toward the
>> end of this thread:
>>
>> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/69794
>>
>> I was under the impression that the behavior of M-RET had changed, but I
>> may have given a wrong or incomplete description of the "old behavior" I
>> seemed to remember and wanted back. I agree that the current behavior
>> does not seem ideal either.
>>
>> Here's some more misguided user input: Wouldn't it be intuitive if M-RET
>> at the beginning of a line turned that line into a heading (as it
>> currently does), but M-RET at the end of a line inserted a new heading
>> below (would require a change from the current workings)? Not sure about
>> M-RET somewhere in the middle of a line.
>
>
> I've been following this thread and there has been some great
> discussion about future plans for re-write and context-sensitive
> functionality. In the mean time, can we revert the C-RET behavior back
> to adding a new headline? I'm finding it incredibly frustration to
> have no way to just add a new headline below the current contents of a
> headline, even if it's folded. I'm adding some individuals to my
> contact file and have no way to just M-RET or C-RET to add a new
> headline quickly except to navigate and manually type a series of *'s.
>
> If we could return one of these to the "old" functionality, that would
> be great. (Or a recommended new way to just add a headline vs.
> transforming the last line into a header.)

Sorry for the noise. I think I just pulled on Friday, but a pull just
now and re-make seems to have returned C-RET to doing what I thought
it should. I may have pulled and never restarted my emacs session, so
it's quite possible this was fixed earlier.


Thanks for that!
John

>
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
>>
>> Yours,
>> Christian
>>
>>
>> Eric Abrahamsen writes:
>>
>>> For the past couple of weeks I'm finding that both M-RET and C-RET turn
>>> the line under point into a heading, instead of inserting a new heading
>>> elsewhere. This happens with `org-M-RET-may-split-line' set to anything.
>>>
>>> So this:
>>>
>>> #+begin_src org
>>> * Chapter One
>>> :PROPERTIES:
>>> :some_prop: t
>>> :END:
>>> In which not [point is here] very much happens. But this is a further test to see
>>> what happens on multiline text.
>>> #+end_src
>>>
>>> becomes:
>>>
>>> #+begin_src org
>>> * Chapter One
>>> :PROPERTIES:
>>> :some_prop: t
>>> :END:
>>> * In which not very much happens. But this is a further test to see
>>> what happens on multiline text.
>>> #+end_src
>>>
>>> This also happens with emacs -Q. Has no one else seen this?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Eric
>>
>>

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Matt Lundin]

John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> writes:

>> On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 2:54 AM, Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> wrote:

>> I've been following this thread and there has been some great
>> discussion about future plans for re-write and context-sensitive
>> functionality. In the mean time, can we revert the C-RET behavior back
>> to adding a new headline? I'm finding it incredibly frustration to
>> have no way to just add a new headline below the current contents of a
>> headline, even if it's folded. I'm adding some individuals to my
>> contact file and have no way to just M-RET or C-RET to add a new
>> headline quickly except to navigate and manually type a series of *'s.
>>
>> If we could return one of these to the "old" functionality, that would
>> be great. (Or a recommended new way to just add a headline vs.
>> transforming the last line into a header.)
>
> Sorry for the noise. I think I just pulled on Friday, but a pull just
> now and re-make seems to have returned C-RET to doing what I thought
> it should. I may have pulled and never restarted my emacs session, so
> it's quite possible this was fixed earlier.

That's curious. It has not been fixed here with the latest git.

I reported this in another thread:

http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/72399

Sorry to have missed this thread.

Matt

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[John Hendy]

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Matt Lundin <mdl@imapmail.org> wrote:
> John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 2:54 AM, Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> wrote:
>
>>> I've been following this thread and there has been some great
>>> discussion about future plans for re-write and context-sensitive
>>> functionality. In the mean time, can we revert the C-RET behavior back
>>> to adding a new headline? I'm finding it incredibly frustration to
>>> have no way to just add a new headline below the current contents of a
>>> headline, even if it's folded. I'm adding some individuals to my
>>> contact file and have no way to just M-RET or C-RET to add a new
>>> headline quickly except to navigate and manually type a series of *'s.
>>>
>>> If we could return one of these to the "old" functionality, that would
>>> be great. (Or a recommended new way to just add a headline vs.
>>> transforming the last line into a header.)
>>
>> Sorry for the noise. I think I just pulled on Friday, but a pull just
>> now and re-make seems to have returned C-RET to doing what I thought
>> it should. I may have pulled and never restarted my emacs session, so
>> it's quite possible this was fixed earlier.
>
> That's curious. It has not been fixed here with the latest git.

Very curious! Your thread is exactly what I was experiencing before my
pull/make clean/make this morning. Now I'm on:

Org-mode version 8.0.3 (release_8.0.3-139-g419b69 @
/home/jwhendy/.elisp/org.git/lisp/)

It's working and I verified it several times to make sure. Indeed, as
with you, the most frustrating was it turning the last line of a
folded headline into a new headline while staying sort of folded (or,
for me, even bumping the ellipsis down below the current headline so
one couldn't unfold it anymore).

I guess I'm not sure what to say. I am experiencing what I would
expect since my last pull, so I don't really feel compelled to re-pull
to see if it's re-broken!


Best regards,
John

>
> I reported this in another thread:
>
> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/72399
>
> Sorry to have missed this thread.
>
> Matt

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Samuel Wales]

How about this?  IMO this would be ideal.

  - M-RET is for the current context
  - C-RET is for a new context

|-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------|
| command     | context          | pos    | action                       |
|-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------|
| c-ret       | any              | any    | create headline above ENTRY  |
| m-ret       | headline or item | beg    | create new above header/item |
| m-ret       | headline or item | middle | split                        |
| m-ret       | headline or item | end    | create new below header/item |
| m-ret       | line             | beg    | create headline above LINE   |
| m-ret twice | line             | beg    | create item above line       |
| m-ret       | line             | middle | turn line into a headline    |
| m-ret twice | line             | middle | turn line into an item       |
| m-ret       | line             | end    | create headline below line   |
| m-ret twice | line             | end    | create item below line       |
|-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------|

Notes:

  - C-RET (in all contexts) creates new headline ABOVE (not
    below) the current entry

  - "beg" does not only refer to beginning of line.  it also
    refers to the blank spaces before a list item or stars
    and space in a headline

I should mention that M-RET still takes several seconds.

Also, C-RET and M-RET currently seem to be identical?

Samuel

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

The disease DOES progress.  MANY people have died from it.  ANYBODY can get it.

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> How about this?  IMO this would be ideal.
>
>   - M-RET is for the current context
>   - C-RET is for a new context
>
> |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------|
> | command     | context          | pos    | action                       |
> |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------|
> | c-ret       | any              | any    | create headline above ENTRY  |
> | m-ret       | headline or item | beg    | create new above header/item |
> | m-ret       | headline or item | middle | split                        |
> | m-ret       | headline or item | end    | create new below header/item |
> | m-ret       | line             | beg    | create headline above LINE   |
> | m-ret twice | line             | beg    | create item above line       |
> | m-ret       | line             | middle | turn line into a headline    |
> | m-ret twice | line             | middle | turn line into an item       |
> | m-ret       | line             | end    | create headline below line   |
> | m-ret twice | line             | end    | create item below line       |
> |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------|
>
> Notes:
>
>   - C-RET (in all contexts) creates new headline ABOVE (not
>     below) the current entry
>
>   - "beg" does not only refer to beginning of line.  it also
>     refers to the blank spaces before a list item or stars
>     and space in a headline
>
> I should mention that M-RET still takes several seconds.
>
> Also, C-RET and M-RET currently seem to be identical?

Yes, that was part of the problem -- too many keys doing the same thing.

I still think it's pretty important to have an option for creating a new
headline *below* all the contents of the current subtree -- what C-RET
used to do.

Also, the above provides a whole lot of options for creating a new
headline/item above the current line -- is that really such a common
thing to do?

And the variable `org-M-RET-may-split-line' is still not taken into
account...

Eric

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Samuel Wales]

Hi Eric,

On 5/15/13, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:
> I still think it's pretty important to have an option for creating a new
> headline *below* all the contents of the current subtree -- what C-RET
> used to do.

This might be a good thing to make a user preference.

> Also, the above provides a whole lot of options for creating a new
> headline/item above the current line -- is that really such a common
> thing to do?

It is for me.

> And the variable `org-M-RET-may-split-line' is still not taken into
> account...

I don't see why it shouldn't be taken into account.

Samuel

-- 
The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

The disease DOES progress.  MANY people have died from it.  ANYBODY can get it.

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Eric,
>
> On 5/15/13, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:
>> I still think it's pretty important to have an option for creating a new
>> headline *below* all the contents of the current subtree -- what C-RET
>> used to do.
>
> This might be a good thing to make a user preference.
>
>> Also, the above provides a whole lot of options for creating a new
>> headline/item above the current line -- is that really such a common
>> thing to do?
>
> It is for me.
>
>> And the variable `org-M-RET-may-split-line' is still not taken into
>> account...
>
> I don't see why it shouldn't be taken into account.

You're right, I guess I just meant it wasn't explicit in your table.

I like the use of double M-RETs, I think that can be useful.

I still think C-RET should create a new heading at the end of the
subtree. A user setting to that effect is fine with me. I'd be happy
if C-RET at the beginning of a heading created a new headline above, but
in the middle or at the end I think it should still jump down and make a
new headline below all content.

Just to register my usage, as a single data point: I make heavy use of
both M-RET to create headings below point (very often to split a single
run of paragraphs into two subtrees), and C-RET to make headings below
subtree text. Very occasionally I use C-u C-u M-RET to make a "bottom
sibling". Very occasionally I use 'C-c *' to toggle heading.

Just two cents.

E

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Daniel Bausch]

Hi!

> I still think it's pretty important to have an option for creating a new
> headline *below* all the contents of the current subtree -- what C-RET
> used to do.

I like to second, that there needs to be a short key binding to insert a
new headline below the current entry when the context is in the middle.
 (Could be C-M-RET or at least C-u C-RET, although I'm very used to type
C-RET for doing that.).

Regards,
Daniel Bausch

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Detlef Steuer]

On Thu, 16 May 2013 09:22:30 +0200
Daniel Bausch <DanielBausch@gmx.de> wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> > I still think it's pretty important to have an option for creating a new
> > headline *below* all the contents of the current subtree -- what C-RET
> > used to do.
> 
> I like to second, that there needs to be a short key binding to insert a
> new headline below the current entry when the context is in the middle.
>  (Could be C-M-RET or at least C-u C-RET, although I'm very used to type
> C-RET for doing that.).

+1

Regards
Detlef


> 
> Regards,
> Daniel Bausch
> 
> 

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Rick Frankel]

On 2013-05-15 23:17, Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
> Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
> Also, C-RET and M-RET currently seem to be identical?
> 
> I still think it's pretty important to have an option for creating a 
> new
> headline *below* all the contents of the current subtree -- what C-RET
> used to do.
> 
> Also, the above provides a whole lot of options for creating a new
> headline/item above the current line -- is that really such a common
> thing to do?
> 
Agreed. Personally, i rarely need to insert headlines/items above the
current line. Actually, the thing I find myself wanting a key for is
inserting a child headline between a headline and it's body text -- I
often find myself wanting to break up a section into new sub-sections.

e.g, turning

#+BEGIN_SRC org
* Headline
	para 1

	para 2
#+END_SRC

into

#+BEGIN_SRC org
*  Headline
** Subhead 1
	 para 1
** Subhead 2
	 para2
#+BEGIN_SRC org

rick

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Eric S Fraga]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> How about this?  IMO this would be ideal.
>>
>>   - M-RET is for the current context
>>   - C-RET is for a new context

[...]

> I still think it's pretty important to have an option for creating a new
> headline *below* all the contents of the current subtree -- what C-RET
> used to do.

+1.  I do not like the new behaviour at all.  C-RET is wired into my
brain and I am used to using it *all* the time without worrying about
where point actually is.  I seldom use M-RET other than on items.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.3.50.1 and Org release_8.0.2-103-gb3a88b

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Bastien]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------|
> | command     | context          | pos    | action                       |
> |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------|
> | c-ret       | any              | any    | create headline above ENTRY  |
> | m-ret       | headline or item | beg    | create new above header/item |
> | m-ret       | headline or item | middle | split                        |
> | m-ret       | headline or item | end    | create new below header/item |
> | m-ret       | line             | beg    | create headline above LINE   |
> | m-ret twice | line             | beg    | create item above line       |
> | m-ret       | line             | middle | turn line into a headline    |
> | m-ret twice | line             | middle | turn line into an item       |
> | m-ret       | line             | end    | create headline below line   |
> | m-ret twice | line             | end    | create item below line       |
> |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------|

Thanks a lot Samuel for writing this.

Just a quick note to tell you that this discussion *is* important,
and well read, as we plan to rewrite those functions.  Presenting
features wrt contexts so clearly is great -- thanks for doing this.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Miro Bezjak]

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Once this gets implemented I'd really like to see the same table in org
manual. It's a really good summary.

Regards,
Miro


On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 8:21 AM, Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> wrote:

> Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
>
> >
> |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------|
> > | command     | context          | pos    | action
> |
> >
> |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------|
> > | c-ret       | any              | any    | create headline above ENTRY
>  |
> > | m-ret       | headline or item | beg    | create new above header/item
> |
> > | m-ret       | headline or item | middle | split
>  |
> > | m-ret       | headline or item | end    | create new below header/item
> |
> > | m-ret       | line             | beg    | create headline above LINE
> |
> > | m-ret twice | line             | beg    | create item above line
> |
> > | m-ret       | line             | middle | turn line into a headline
>  |
> > | m-ret twice | line             | middle | turn line into an item
> |
> > | m-ret       | line             | end    | create headline below line
> |
> > | m-ret twice | line             | end    | create item below line
> |
> >
> |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------|
>
> Thanks a lot Samuel for writing this.
>
> Just a quick note to tell you that this discussion *is* important,
> and well read, as we plan to rewrite those functions.  Presenting
> features wrt contexts so clearly is great -- thanks for doing this.
>
> --
>  Bastien
>
>

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Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Jason F. McBrayer]

Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:

> Thanks a lot Samuel for writing this.
>
> Just a quick note to tell you that this discussion *is* important,
> and well read, as we plan to rewrite those functions.  Presenting
> features wrt contexts so clearly is great -- thanks for doing this.

Another thing to take into account in the rewrite is doing the right
thing even when electric-indent-mode or electric-layout-mode are
enabled. The current implementation is not compatible with
electric-indent-mode. 

-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+  
| Jason F. McBrayer                    jmcbray@carcosa.net  |  
| If someone conquers a thousand times a thousand others in |  
| battle, and someone else conquers himself, the latter one |  
| is the greatest of all conquerors.  --- The Dhammapada    |  

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Carsten Dominik]

On 16.5.2013, at 21:11, Jason F. McBrayer <jmcbray@carcosa.net> wrote:

> Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:
> 
>> Thanks a lot Samuel for writing this.
>> 
>> Just a quick note to tell you that this discussion *is* important,
>> and well read, as we plan to rewrite those functions.  Presenting
>> features wrt contexts so clearly is great -- thanks for doing this.
> 
> Another thing to take into account in the rewrite is doing the right
> thing even when electric-indent-mode or electric-layout-mode are
> enabled. The current implementation is not compatible with
> electric-indent-mode. 

Never heard about these - need to look them up.

- Carsten

> 
> -- 
> +-----------------------------------------------------------+  
> | Jason F. McBrayer                    jmcbray@carcosa.net  |  
> | If someone conquers a thousand times a thousand others in |  
> | battle, and someone else conquers himself, the latter one |  
> | is the greatest of all conquerors.  --- The Dhammapada    |  
> 

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Jason F. McBrayer]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes:

> On 16.5.2013, at 21:11, Jason F. McBrayer <jmcbray@carcosa.net> wrote:
>> Another thing to take into account in the rewrite is doing the right
>> thing even when electric-indent-mode or electric-layout-mode are
>> enabled. The current implementation is not compatible with
>> electric-indent-mode. 
>
> Never heard about these - need to look them up.

I think they were introduced in Emacs 24, to replace globally the
various hacks people were using previously. I found a workaround online
at [[http://foldl.me/2012/disabling-electric-indent-mode/][foldl]].

-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+  
| Jason F. McBrayer                    jmcbray@carcosa.net  |  
| If someone conquers a thousand times a thousand others in |  
| battle, and someone else conquers himself, the latter one |  
| is the greatest of all conquerors.  --- The Dhammapada    |  

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Carsten Dominik]

Hi everyone,

yes, thanks for making this table, Samuel.

I think the functionality is a bit overkill, in particular the implementation
with pressing M-RET twice for special functionality.  This becomes too
confusing, I think.

The elementary function of M-RET is continue in the current list/outline.
C-RET is a way to get out of list environments and to get a new heading.
Both are entirely necessary when taking notes, IMO.

So I would propose the following adapted version of Samuel's table:

|-------------+------------------+--------+--------------------------------|
| command     | context          | pos    | action                         |
|-------------+------------------+--------+--------------------------------|
| c-ret       | any              | any    | create headline below entry    |
| m-ret       | headline or item | beg    | create new above header/item   |
| m-ret       | headline or item | middle | split                          |
| m-ret       | headline or item | end    | create new below header/item   |
| m-ret       | line             | beg    | turn into headline, this is    |
|             |                  |        | just a special case of split   |
| m-ret       | line             | middle | turn rest of line into heading |
| m-ret       | line             | end    | new heading after line         |
| C-o M-ret   | line             | beg    | new heading before line        |
|-------------+------------------+--------+--------------------------------|

There was discussion about `C-c *'.  For me the main application
of this command it to turn an item into a headline, and to turn *several*
lines into a series of headline (by selecting the lines first) - this is
a very frequent application when I paste text that I then need to structure.
Nobody mentioned this in this thread, so maybe this feature is not known
well enough.

- Carsten

Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading?

[Rick Frankel]

On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 03:26:09PM +0200, Carsten Dominik wrote:

> There was discussion about `C-c *'.  For me the main application
> of this command it to turn an item into a headline, and to turn *several*
> lines into a series of headline (by selecting the lines first) - this is
> a very frequent application when I paste text that I then need to structure.
> Nobody mentioned this in this thread, so maybe this feature is not known
> well enough.

I use `C-c *' and `C-c -' to turn lists <-> headlines all the time...