From: Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us>
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Allowing loose ordering in Org files
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2015 18:47:08 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87wptrt68z.fsf@gmx.us> (raw)
In-Reply-To: m2bnb3mcj6.fsf_-_@Vulcan.attlocal.net
Hi,
I share my personal views on this below.
John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> John Wiegley <johnw@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> I spoke to Nicolas directly and he mentioned that a goal for syntax
>> regularity is to make it possible to reliably read and manipulate Org files
>> outside of Emacs.
>>
>> For this I *am* willing to give up order independence of PROPERTIES. Having
>> a customization option would needlessly increases the number of
>> possibilities external processors must consider, and so I retract my
>> request.
>
> I've had time this weekend to rethink my feature request, and I realized that
> even machine-friendly formatting is something I should be able to give up, to
> have an Org that works better for me.
>
> What has always made Org great (to me) is that it's a rather "light" overlay
> on a plain old text file. What structure it does enforce -- say, the actual
> syntax of drawers -- has always felt fairly "fluid".
>
> Lately there seems to be a push to sacrifice some of this freedom in order to
> gain efficiency and regularity. I imagine this is for the benefit of machine
> parsers; but what if one doesn't use any machine parsers? Org never asked me
> to give up flexibility for unknown benefits before.
This is one concern. Another concern is adhere to the "Org syntax", which
I guess is what you mean by regularity.
There are other implementations of Org. For instance, Github and Gitlab
display Org files via org-ruby (AFAIK). If the claim was, that there is a
strong desire to formalize and stick to the Org syntax, I would agree.
Furthermore, I would claim this is a good thing.
http://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-syntax.html#Property_Drawers
An alternative is a freer take on syntax, such as how MD has evolved,
which IMO is a bit annoying.
> It should be asked whether users want to trade formatting freedom for those
> benefits. If it has been asked, I missed that discussion. So unless it's an
> heavy maintenance burden to allow floating properties, for example, I don't
> see why I, as a user, shouldn't be allowed to make that choice.
That’s a fair point.
> To those who repeat the performance argument: This is an opt-in only request.
> It is not about changing the performance of default Org, or making files more
> difficult to parse outside of Emacs for everyone.
I disagree with your last claim.
Rasmus
--
It was you, Jezebel, it was you
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-11-09 17:47 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 50+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-11-03 0:11 bug in org-habits Mark A. Hershberger
2015-11-03 9:56 ` Marco Wahl
2015-11-03 11:16 ` Puneeth Chaganti
2015-11-03 13:11 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-03 13:46 ` Marco Wahl
2015-11-03 14:20 ` Stelian Iancu
2015-11-03 16:31 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-11-03 19:20 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-03 19:35 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-11-03 20:17 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-03 20:52 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-11-03 20:55 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-03 21:31 ` Achim Gratz
2015-11-03 21:36 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-03 21:48 ` Jonathan Leech-Pepin
2015-11-03 21:56 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-03 22:36 ` Achim Gratz
2015-11-03 22:45 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-04 13:01 ` Bastien Guerry
2015-11-04 20:26 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-09 15:13 ` Allowing loose ordering in Org files (Was: bug in org-habits) John Wiegley
2015-11-09 17:47 ` Rasmus [this message]
2015-11-09 18:15 ` Allowing loose ordering in Org files John Wiegley
2015-11-09 19:28 ` Rasmus
2015-11-09 19:57 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-09 19:12 ` Achim Gratz
2015-11-09 19:24 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-09 20:04 ` Achim Gratz
2015-11-09 21:13 ` Stelian Iancu
2015-11-09 21:30 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 1:40 ` Allowing loose ordering in Org files (Was: bug in org-habits) Aaron Ecay
2015-11-10 1:52 ` Allowing loose ordering in Org files John Wiegley
2015-11-10 5:31 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-11-10 17:37 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-11-10 19:20 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-11-10 20:02 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 20:42 ` Matt Lundin
2015-11-10 20:44 ` Matt Lundin
2015-11-10 17:51 ` Matt Lundin
2015-11-10 18:19 ` Matt Lundin
2015-11-10 19:49 ` Achim Gratz
2015-11-10 20:11 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 20:38 ` Achim Gratz
2015-11-10 22:35 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11 16:13 ` Karl Voit
2015-11-10 11:30 ` Allowing loose ordering in Org files (Was: bug in org-habits) Stelian Iancu
2015-11-03 23:43 ` bug in org-habits Nicolas Goaziou
2015-11-04 1:01 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-04 9:02 ` Stelian Iancu
2015-11-04 9:16 ` Eric S Fraga
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