From: "Juan Manuel Macías" <maciaschain@posteo.net>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>
Cc: Daniel Fleischer <danflscr@gmail.com>,
Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com>,
emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Line breaks and brackets in LaTeX export
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2022 12:27:54 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87v8oid48l.fsf@posteo.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <874jw2r7s5.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Mon, 17 Oct 2022 11:47:38 +0000")
Ihor Radchenko writes:
> I haven't seen any publication rule that prevents using valid LaTeX
> commands like this. Do you have concrete examples? If not, one could
> argue that any auto-generated output could break some imaginary rule.
No, I don't have any concrete example. But it is one thing to use a
valid LaTeX command and another to use it unnecessarily. It's like
putting \vspace{0pt} between each paragraph.
> I am also wondering how LaTeX documents generated from LyX or TeXmacs
> look like. Are they not using some obvious machine-generated constructs?
I don't know, because I haven't seen them. But I'd bet (at the risk of
losing the bet) that none of those machine-generated constructs produce
anything as unnecessary as Org's present solution. The situation now
becomes the following:
Pandoc: selective solution. In specific cases it returns {[}...{]}
Org: non-selective solution = ugly LaTeX code.
>> Anyway. As for the compilation, it is highly unlikely that \empty will
>> cause any unexpected error. But LaTeX and its over 6000 packages is
>> unpredictable. It also seemed unlikely that \relax would cause any
>> problems, and catching up on the last discussion, it had to be replaced
>> by \empty because it returned an error just before \hline. \relax is one
>> of the recommended solutions from LaTeX, because it tells LaTeX that the
>> previous macro has finished expanding, but it is recommended keeping in
>> mind that the user will apply it only when needed, not everywhere. And
>> before \hline it doesn't make sense because there will never be an
>> '\\[...]' error. So, in the current situation, we can ask ourselves: is
>> \empty everywhere safe? Everything points to yes. Can we be 100% sure?
>> ...?
>
> My answer is: "\\" is 100% not universally safe. Simply because we have
> that bug report with [ ... ] items in tables.
> So, anything with no concrete counter-example is better as long as we
> are reasonably sure that we are not breaking LaTeX conventions.
As I said, this is a known LaTeX problem that occurs in a rare case, for
which there is a known solution (or several), which should be applied in
the specific case. And Org already provides the necessary tools to apply
it.
>> The only thing I can think of, for a non-selective solution like the
>> current one, is the following: if \\ has an optional argument that must
>> be a length, then let's give it, but with a value of zero: \\[0pt], which
>> is equivalent to putting the value by default (zero) explicitly.
>
> This has been proposed and then rejected by Max in
> https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/ti5tdb$rd2$1@ciao.gmane.io/ and he
> concluded that some side effects are present when using \\[0pt]:
>
> Max> \\[0pt]
> Max>
> Max> causes insertion of some code for negative vertical skip (of zero height
> Max> this case). It should not be really harmful, but I would avoid this
I would like to see some concrete example where this solution was
problematic. \\[0pt] is exactly the same as \\ (as for the effects).
Redundant but valid.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-10-17 12:29 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 54+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-10-15 21:35 [bug] `org-latex-line-break-safe' breaks the export of verse blocks to LaTeX Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-16 3:24 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-16 12:08 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-16 15:04 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-16 16:33 ` Verse block and separations (was: [bug] `org-latex-line-break-safe' breaks the export of verse blocks to LaTeX) Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-17 8:54 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-18 9:39 ` Verse block and separations Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-17 14:48 ` Verse block and separations (was: [bug] `org-latex-line-break-safe' breaks the export of verse blocks to LaTeX) Max Nikulin
2022-10-19 11:08 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-19 11:24 ` Verse block and separations Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-16 17:14 ` Line breaks and brackets in LaTeX export (was: [bug] `org-latex-line-break-safe' breaks the export of verse blocks to LaTeX) Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-17 9:04 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-17 11:30 ` Line breaks and brackets in LaTeX export Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-17 11:47 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-17 12:27 ` Juan Manuel Macías [this message]
2022-10-17 15:01 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-17 16:46 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-17 18:04 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-18 4:41 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-18 14:23 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-19 3:57 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-19 5:11 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-19 11:16 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-19 12:30 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-19 17:07 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-20 16:55 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-21 3:34 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-21 16:38 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-21 19:32 ` Juan Manuel Macías
[not found] ` <ac290c60-3b54-5521-eb16-82e6611dc6e2@gmail.com>
2022-10-20 17:07 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-29 2:36 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-11-13 17:01 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-18 4:39 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-19 17:12 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-20 5:07 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-20 17:15 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-21 3:41 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-21 16:32 ` Max Nikulin
2022-10-22 5:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-22 12:26 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-10-22 15:55 ` Max Nikulin
2022-11-01 1:51 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-11-01 16:07 ` Max Nikulin
2022-11-02 6:44 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-11-02 6:46 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-11-02 15:27 ` Max Nikulin
2022-11-03 6:15 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-11-03 15:00 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-11-03 15:33 ` Max Nikulin
2022-11-03 15:48 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2022-11-04 4:23 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-11-04 5:40 ` Max Nikulin
2022-11-05 5:30 ` Ihor Radchenko
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2022-11-01 16:55 Juan Manuel Macías
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