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* basic org questions
@ 2020-09-15 15:29 Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-15 15:44 ` Russell Adams
                   ` (4 more replies)
  0 siblings, 5 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-15 15:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

1) How do I make a region italic?

This does not fontify and does not show up as
italic type:

/En gång i tiden var även Spanien täckt av skog.
En gammal berättelse menar att man i norra Spanien
kunde hoppa upp på en apas rygg och ta sig ner till
södra Spanien utan att klättra av en enda gång. Apan,
underförstått, kunde hoppa från gren till gren genom
hela halvön. Flyger man över Spanien idag ser man att
det har gått åt ett och annat träd sen dess./

/This/ works tho.

2) How do I have tables not appear centered
by default, but left-aligned?

3) How do I have a new paragraph, as indicated by

p1

p2

appear w/o indentation, but with a blank line between
p1 and p2 (yes, exactly as stated, really).

TIA! :)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 15:29 basic org questions Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
@ 2020-09-15 15:44 ` Russell Adams
  2020-09-15 19:38   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-15 15:49 ` tomas
                   ` (3 subsequent siblings)
  4 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Russell Adams @ 2020-09-15 15:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 05:29:05PM +0200, Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. wrote:
> 1) How do I make a region italic?
>
> This does not fontify and does not show up as
> italic type:
>
> /En gång i tiden var även Spanien täckt av skog.
> En gammal berättelse menar att man i norra Spanien
> kunde hoppa upp på en apas rygg och ta sig ner till
> södra Spanien utan att klättra av en enda gång. Apan,
> underförstått, kunde hoppa från gren till gren genom
> hela halvön. Flyger man över Spanien idag ser man att
> det har gått åt ett och annat träd sen dess./
>
> /This/ works tho.

https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/18101/org-mode-multi-line-emphasis-and-bold

> 2) How do I have tables not appear centered
> by default, but left-aligned?

https://orgmode.org/manual/Column-Width-and-Alignment.html

Note that numbers are right aligned by default, and others are left.

> 3) How do I have a new paragraph, as indicated by
>
> p1
>
> p2
>
> appear w/o indentation, but with a blank line between
> p1 and p2 (yes, exactly as stated, really).

In what? Are you exporting?

Also consider IRC.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com

PGP Key ID:     0x1160DCB3           http://www.adamsinfoserv.com/

Fingerprint:    1723 D8CA 4280 1EC9 557F  66E8 1154 E018 1160 DCB3


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 15:29 basic org questions Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-15 15:44 ` Russell Adams
@ 2020-09-15 15:49 ` tomas
  2020-09-15 19:50   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-15 17:08 ` Matt Huszagh
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  4 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: tomas @ 2020-09-15 15:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

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On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 05:29:05PM +0200, Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. wrote:
> 1) How do I make a region italic?
> 
> This does not fontify and does not show up as
> italic type:
> 
> /En gång i tiden var även Spanien täckt av skog.
> En gammal berättelse menar att man i norra Spanien
> kunde hoppa upp på en apas rygg och ta sig ner till
> södra Spanien utan att klättra av en enda gång. Apan,
> underförstått, kunde hoppa från gren till gren genom
> hela halvön. Flyger man över Spanien idag ser man att
> det har gått åt ett och annat träd sen dess./
> 
> /This/ works tho.

This is not /really/ documented, so handle with some
care.

In a nutshell, org's emphasis was born to handle short
spans of text. To not slow the fontifier too much, the
matching is limited to at most (i believe) two lines.

But, given a bit of deep magic [1], you can increase that
limit.

The variable `org-emphasis-regexp-components' is documented,
so one might hope that the method is magic, but somewhat
official.

I use that for /normal/ texts: they tend to want longer
emphasised spans...

Cheers

[1] https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/18101/org-mode-multi-line-emphasis-and-bold

 - t

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 15:29 basic org questions Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-15 15:44 ` Russell Adams
  2020-09-15 15:49 ` tomas
@ 2020-09-15 17:08 ` Matt Huszagh
  2020-09-15 19:52   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-15 19:23 ` Aleksandar Dimitrov
  2020-09-16  0:04 ` Tim Cross
  4 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Matt Huszagh @ 2020-09-15 17:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Emanuel Berg, emacs-orgmode

Emanuel Berg via "General discussions about Org-mode."
<emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> writes:

> 2) How do I have tables not appear centered
> by default, but left-aligned?

Do you mean the alignment of columns, or the table itself? You can
control column alignment with `<c>`, `<l>`, `<r>`, e.g.,

|      title       | description              |        other desc |
|------------------+--------------------------+-------------------|
|       <c>        | <l>                      |               <r> |
|    some title    | some description.        |        right desc |
| some other title | some longer description. | longer right desc |

If you mean the table itself, that would be very strange.

I'm not too sure about your other questions.

Matt


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 15:29 basic org questions Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-09-15 17:08 ` Matt Huszagh
@ 2020-09-15 19:23 ` Aleksandar Dimitrov
  2020-09-16  0:04 ` Tim Cross
  4 siblings, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Aleksandar Dimitrov @ 2020-09-15 19:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.

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Hi Emanuel,

Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. writes:

> 1) How do I make a region italic?
>
> This does not fontify and does not show up as
> italic type:
>
> /En gång i tiden var även Spanien täckt av skog.
> En gammal berättelse menar att man i norra Spanien
> kunde hoppa upp på en apas rygg och ta sig ner till
> södra Spanien utan att klättra av en enda gång. Apan,
> underförstått, kunde hoppa från gren till gren genom
> hela halvön. Flyger man över Spanien idag ser man att
> det har gått åt ett och annat träd sen dess./
>
> /This/ works tho.

You could try using something like visual-line-mode, olivetti-mode,
writeroom-mode to obviate the need for inserting newlines. I've attached
a screenshot.


[-- Attachment #2: Textsnippet with olivetti-mode --]
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[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 290 bytes --]


Hope this helps,
Aleks

>
> 2) How do I have tables not appear centered
> by default, but left-aligned?
>
> 3) How do I have a new paragraph, as indicated by
>
> p1
>
> p2
>
> appear w/o indentation, but with a blank line between
> p1 and p2 (yes, exactly as stated, really).
>
> TIA! :)


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 15:44 ` Russell Adams
@ 2020-09-15 19:38   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-17 14:27     ` Alexander Adolf
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-15 19:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Re: basic org questions
Russell Adams wrote:

>> 1) How do I make a region italic? [...]
>
> https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/18101/org-mode-multi-line-emphasis-and-bold

OK, thanks, not the same good looking syntax tho but
good enough for government work, I suppose.

>> 2) How do I have tables not appear centered by
>> default, but left-aligned?
>
> https://orgmode.org/manual/Column-Width-and-Alignment.html

Tried all of the three options suggested

  #+STARTUP: align
  #+STARTUP: noalign
  #+STARTUP: shrink

but the table still appears centered?

OK, no I see, I mean the actual table should appear
to the left! The table itself looks good.

>> 3) How do I have a new paragraph, as indicated by
>> p1
>> p2
>> appear w/o indentation, but with a blank line
>> between p1 and p2 (yes, exactly as stated,
>> really).
>
> In what? Are you exporting?

Yes, I use `org-latex-export-to-pdf' to get a PDF.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 15:49 ` tomas
@ 2020-09-15 19:50   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-15 19:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

tomas wrote:

> The variable `org-emphasis-regexp-components' is
> documented, so one might hope that the method is
> magic, but somewhat official.

Indeed, that works:

  (setq org-emphasis-regexp-components
         (append (butlast org-emphasis-regexp-components) '(7)) )

:)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 17:08 ` Matt Huszagh
@ 2020-09-15 19:52   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-15 20:49     ` Matt Huszagh
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-15 19:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Matt Huszagh wrote:

> If you mean the table itself, that would be
> very strange.

Heh...? What's strange with that?

Anyway that's what I mean.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 19:52   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
@ 2020-09-15 20:49     ` Matt Huszagh
  2020-09-15 21:01       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Matt Huszagh @ 2020-09-15 20:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Emanuel Berg, emacs-orgmode

Emanuel Berg via "General discussions about Org-mode."
<emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> writes:

> Heh...? What's strange with that?
>
> Anyway that's what I mean.

I guess I'm just not sure what you mean. I was under the impression that
tables were always left-aligned and table alignment in the manual refers
to column alignment
(https://orgmode.org/manual/Column-Width-and-Alignment.html). But it's
certainly possible there's an org-mode feature I'm not aware of. Were
you referring to the tables being centered after export (I see from
another part of this chain that that's what you were referring to in the
3rd question) when you wanted them left-aligned? If that is the case, it
would really help if you specify that in your original
question. Appearance in an org-mode buffer and appearance in the PDF,
HTML, etc. after export are very different things with very different
configuration.

Matt


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 20:49     ` Matt Huszagh
@ 2020-09-15 21:01       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-15 21:10         ` Samuel Wales
                           ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-15 21:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Matt Huszagh wrote:

> Were you referring to the tables being centered
> after export (I see from another part of this chain
> that that's what you were referring to in the 3rd
> question) when you wanted them left-aligned?
> If that is the case, it would really help if you
> specify that in your original question.
> Appearance in an org-mode buffer and appearance in
> the PDF, HTML, etc. after export are very different
> things with very different configuration.

Yes, after export to PDF, they are centered. they =
the whole table items.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 21:01       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
@ 2020-09-15 21:10         ` Samuel Wales
  2020-09-15 21:44         ` Matt Huszagh
  2020-09-17  4:39         ` Nick Dokos
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Samuel Wales @ 2020-09-15 21:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Emanuel Berg, emacs-orgmode

if it is in the buffer, asopposed to export, to align body text,
including stuff like planning lines, take a look at
org-adapt-indentation.

i prefer everything left-aligned as opposed to moving around with the
header indentation level, so i set this.

if it's export, check backends for vars.  ascii has one.

if centering really means centering then idk.

On 9/15/20, Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
<emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> wrote:
> Matt Huszagh wrote:
>
>> Were you referring to the tables being centered
>> after export (I see from another part of this chain
>> that that's what you were referring to in the 3rd
>> question) when you wanted them left-aligned?
>> If that is the case, it would really help if you
>> specify that in your original question.
>> Appearance in an org-mode buffer and appearance in
>> the PDF, HTML, etc. after export are very different
>> things with very different configuration.
>
> Yes, after export to PDF, they are centered. they =
> the whole table items.
>
> --
> underground experts united
> http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
> https://dataswamp.org/~incal
>
>
>


-- 
The Kafka Pandemic

Please learn what misopathy is.
https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com/2013/10/why-some-diseases-are-wronged.html


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 21:01       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-15 21:10         ` Samuel Wales
@ 2020-09-15 21:44         ` Matt Huszagh
  2020-09-15 22:32           ` Emanuel Berg
  2020-09-17  4:39         ` Nick Dokos
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Matt Huszagh @ 2020-09-15 21:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Emanuel Berg, emacs-orgmode

Emanuel Berg via "General discussions about Org-mode."
<emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> writes:

> Yes, after export to PDF, they are centered. they =
> the whole table items.

I think this link
(https://orgmode.org/manual/Tables-in-LaTeX-export.html) is the relevant
part of the documentation. I haven't used this though, so I can't help
you further.

In general, it would be much easier to help you if you specify these
things in the original question. The fact that you're asking about LaTeX
export processed to PDF is critical information. Also, please consult
the documentation before asking questions. There are gaps, but generally
it's well-written and a lot of people have put a lot of time into it.

Matt


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 21:44         ` Matt Huszagh
@ 2020-09-15 22:32           ` Emanuel Berg
  2020-09-15 22:37             ` Matt Huszagh
  2020-09-16  7:44             ` Thomas S. Dye
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg @ 2020-09-15 22:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Matt Huszagh; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Matt Huszagh wrote:

>> Yes, after export to PDF, they are centered.
>> they = the whole table items.
>
> I think this link
> (https://orgmode.org/manual/Tables-in-LaTeX-export.html)
> is the relevant part of the documentation.

Yeah, but in LaTeX being left aligned is not some
property of the table, everything is left-aligned,
and if you want it otherwise, you put between
\begin{center} and \end{center} ...

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 22:32           ` Emanuel Berg
@ 2020-09-15 22:37             ` Matt Huszagh
  2020-09-16  1:56               ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-16  7:44             ` Thomas S. Dye
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Matt Huszagh @ 2020-09-15 22:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: , emacs-orgmode

Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> writes:

> Yeah, but in LaTeX being left aligned is not some
> property of the table, everything is left-aligned,
> and if you want it otherwise, you put between
> \begin{center} and \end{center} ...

That page also describes how to set float parameters, which the table
can be within.

What is the latex your export is generating? What does your input org
file look like, and what sort of configuration parameters have you set?

Matt


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 15:29 basic org questions Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
                   ` (3 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-09-15 19:23 ` Aleksandar Dimitrov
@ 2020-09-16  0:04 ` Tim Cross
  2020-09-16  1:58   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  4 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Tim Cross @ 2020-09-16  0:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode


Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> writes:

> 1) How do I make a region italic?
>
> This does not fontify and does not show up as
> italic type:
>
> /En gång i tiden var även Spanien täckt av skog.
> En gammal berättelse menar att man i norra Spanien
> kunde hoppa upp på en apas rygg och ta sig ner till
> södra Spanien utan att klättra av en enda gång. Apan,
> underförstått, kunde hoppa från gren till gren genom
> hela halvön. Flyger man över Spanien idag ser man att
> det har gått åt ett och annat träd sen dess./
>
> /This/ works tho.
>
> 2) How do I have tables not appear centered
> by default, but left-aligned?
>
> 3) How do I have a new paragraph, as indicated by
>
> p1
>
> p2
>
> appear w/o indentation, but with a blank line between
> p1 and p2 (yes, exactly as stated, really).
>

It is important to understand the org mode architecture in order to
understand how/where to try and change/fix things to get specific
results. It is also very important to be clear about this architecture
when asking questions so that you can include the most relevant
information. 

Org has a multi-layered architecture. At the top is the org buffer where
you put your org text. This text supports markup and other text with
special  meaning which the Emacs editor will display in specific ways
using colours, fonts, overlays etc.

When you export an org file, the contents of the org file is
extracted and markup, options, 'special' text etc is mapped to the
equivalent 'concept' in the back end format. Sometimes, this translation
might involve multiple steps (e.g. for PDF the org text is translated
into Latex, which is then translated into pdf). Understanding this is
critical as all back ends are not the same and sometimes, the changes
you need to make need to be performed at the back end rather than within
the org file itself. For example, sometimes, a quick and easy change can
be achieved by manually editing the *.tex file generated when doing a
PDF export and other times, it may be necessary to define a whole new
document class in order to achieve the result you want (for example, I
defined a new entry for org-latex-classes called 'work' which added
additional Latex classes and macro definitions needed to support the
format documents had to have for my employer).  

All this means that you need to be explicit when asking a question
whether what you want is for the org buffer/file, the exported file and
what the exported format is.

As with many questions involving technology, you are often better off
explaining what your specific outcome is rather than on how to do
something as the latter is often asking how to do something to implement
what you think is the right solution when in fact a completely different
solution might be easier.

As an example, with your question about how to make a paragraph italic.
Do you want the text to appear italic in the org buffer or do you want
the PDF text which results from the export to be italic? Is it actually
critical that it is italic or do you just want to make sure that text is
rendered in such a way as to make it emphasised or stand out in the
final exported output?

If it is the latter, I would actually take a completely different
approach. Rather than trying to mark the whole paragraph as italic, I
would create a quoted block using #+begin_quote/#+end_quote. Each back
end will interpret this quoted block in its own way and render it
accordingly.

Another approach would be to use embedded latex in your document and
render the paragraph as a latex block using

\begin{em}
\end{em}

or

\begin{it}
\end{it}

The disadvantage of this approach is that your being very back end
specific in your org-file, so exporting to other formats may not work
well.

With respect to your question regarding table placement in your PDF,
have a look at the manual section on exporting and in particular, Latex
export options. There are a number of options you can add to your table
definition which will affect how the table is rendered or where it is
placed within the document. Note that Latex is a VERY powerful document
formatting system and it is VERY opinionated. Unlike MS Word and other
word processing systems, with Latex derived formatting, your almost
always better off leaving Latex to decide how to do things. With Latex,
you select a document style and run with that. Tables are notoriously
complex to get right and while you can achieve what you want, you will
likely need to read up on Latex and how it processes tables and you may
need to add or tweak the latex packages included by Org when it
generates the output in order to get the precise result you are after.
In your current case, you will likely be able to achieve your desired
result just using the ':float' or ':placement' commands (see the org
manual section on latex export).

With respect to your final question on paragraph indent for first line -
this is the default style for Latex documents. Different Latex document
styles have different paragraph styles, some of which do not indent the
first line. You can change the document style by adding a new latex
class. For example, many people prefer the Korma Article class for
documents over the default Latex Article class. You can change the class
in a number of ways including by adding a #+latex_class: header to the
org file. e.g.

#+latex_class: korma-article

Another alternative is to add an additional latex header argument. For
example, this may work to disable paragraph indentation

#+latex_header:  \setlength{\parindent}{0pt}

You can also prevent indentation of a specific paragraph by using the
latext

\noindent

command.

Note that the above is specific to exports based on Latex (such as PDF
export) and will not have effect on other export types.

If you really must heavily customise the PDF format, you have the power.
However, you will likely need to read up on Latex and the latex to pdf
process to understand how that works and then go back to the org manual
to work out the best ways to customise org to use the setting you want.
The key to success IMO is to be conservative here. Lots of research into
typography, text formatting etc has gone into the TeX/LaTeX system and
your generally best off going with their style decisions. Look for
alternative high-level document styles (such as the Korma, HiTech and
other styles) rather than try hacking existing styles as it will be
easier and give better results in the long term.

HTH

Tim

-- 
Tim Cross


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 22:37             ` Matt Huszagh
@ 2020-09-16  1:56               ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-16  6:15                 ` Stefan Nobis
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-16  1:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Matt Huszagh wrote:

>> Yeah, but in LaTeX being left aligned is not some
>> property of the table, everything is left-aligned,
>> and if you want it otherwise, you put between
>> \begin{center} and \end{center} ...
>
> That page also describes how to set float
> parameters, which the table can be within.

If you mean this, 

    The table environments by default are not floats in LaTeX. To
    make them floating objects use ‘:float’ with one of the following
    options: ‘sideways’, ‘multicolumn’, ‘t’, and ‘nil’.

then none of this produced a left-aligned table.

#+ATTR_LATEX: :float sideways
| 1 | 2 |
| 3 | 4 |

#+ATTR_LATEX: :float multicolumn
| 1 | 2 |
| 3 | 4 |

#+ATTR_LATEX: :float t
| 1 | 2 |
| 3 | 4 |

#+ATTR_LATEX: :float nil
| 1 | 2 |
| 3 | 4 |

> What is the latex your export is generating?

I use `org-latex-export-to-pdf', other than that
I don't know what LaTeX it is.

> What does your input org file look like, and what
> sort of configuration parameters have you set?

Not a lot :)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  0:04 ` Tim Cross
@ 2020-09-16  1:58   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-16  3:46     ` TEC
                       ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-16  1:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Tim Cross wrote:

> #+latex_class: korma-article

user-error: Unknown LaTeX class ‘korma-article’

> #+latex_header:  \setlength{\parindent}{0pt}

Yes, that's removed the indentation but didn't insert
a blank line...

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  1:58   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
@ 2020-09-16  3:46     ` TEC
  2020-09-16  4:11       ` Emanuel Berg
  2020-09-16  4:13       ` Emanuel Berg
  2020-09-16  4:31     ` Tim Cross
                       ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 2 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: TEC @ 2020-09-16  3:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: emacs-orgmode


Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> writes:

> user-error: Unknown LaTeX class ‘korma-article’

This is just because the class has to be defined in =org-latex-classes=
(see the doctring for info).
By default it contains:
 - beamer
 - article
 - report
 - book

>> #+latex_header:  \setlength{\parindent}{0pt}
>
> Yes, that's removed the indentation but didn't insert
> a blank line...

This is getting into LaTeX, not Org, but you need to do two things:
 1. Remove indent
 2. Set parskip to the height of a line

i.e.
#+begin_src latex
\setlength{\parindent}{0pt}
\setlength{\parskip}{\baselineskip}
#+end_src

You can add a number before =\baselineskip= to 'stretch' that length.
E.g. for half a line =0.5\baselineskip=.

Hope that helps,

Timothy.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  3:46     ` TEC
@ 2020-09-16  4:11       ` Emanuel Berg
  2020-09-16  4:51         ` TEC
  2020-09-16  6:56         ` tomas
  2020-09-16  4:13       ` Emanuel Berg
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg @ 2020-09-16  4:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: TEC; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

TEC wrote:

> #+begin_src latex
> \setlength{\parindent}{0pt}
> \setlength{\parskip}{\baselineskip}
> #+end_src

I know this commands well from my LaTeX projects,
but I'm gonna use LaTeX anyway, what's the use of
using org-mode?

Is this the org-mode that people have been praising
for like a decade or so? You get to do LaTeX
all over?

And even for the most basic tasks like configuring
how a paragraph will look?

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  3:46     ` TEC
  2020-09-16  4:11       ` Emanuel Berg
@ 2020-09-16  4:13       ` Emanuel Berg
  2020-09-16 13:48         ` Eric S Fraga
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg @ 2020-09-16  4:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: TEC; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

TEC wrote:

> #+begin_src latex
> \setlength{\parindent}{0pt}
> \setlength{\parskip}{\baselineskip}
> #+end_src

Also, that doesn't work. Put it in the document, new
PDF, looks the same.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  1:58   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-16  3:46     ` TEC
@ 2020-09-16  4:31     ` Tim Cross
  2020-09-16  6:21       ` TEC
  2020-09-16 22:11       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-16  6:54     ` tomas
  2020-09-16  7:37     ` Stefan Nobis
  3 siblings, 2 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Tim Cross @ 2020-09-16  4:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode


Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> writes:

> Tim Cross wrote:
>
>> #+latex_class: korma-article
>
> user-error: Unknown LaTeX class ‘korma-article’

That probably indicates you have not got the necessary Latex packages
installed. It was mainly an example of using a different document class
style (there are many). Depending on what platform your on, some of
these additional classes are in a separate package, often called
something like latex-extra or latex-styles-extra or similar.

>
>> #+latex_header:  \setlength{\parindent}{0pt}
>
> Yes, that's removed the indentation but didn't insert
> a blank line...

#+latex_header: \parskip 1.5ex 

might work. Again, this stuff is controlled by the specific latex
document class your using. When you need to make 'tweaks' like this,
google latex commands and then use things like #+latex_header: to set
them. 

-- 
Tim Cross


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  4:11       ` Emanuel Berg
@ 2020-09-16  4:51         ` TEC
  2020-09-17  0:46           ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-16  6:56         ` tomas
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: TEC @ 2020-09-16  4:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: emacs-orgmode


Emanuel Berg <moasenwood@zoho.eu> writes:

> TEC wrote:
>
> I know this commands well from my LaTeX projects,
> but I'm gonna use LaTeX anyway, what's the use of
> using org-mode?

You see, strangely enough - if you want to tweak the result of Org
exporting to LaTeX, you have to write LaTeX :P

Assuming your only use of Org is exporting to LaTeX (needless to say,
this leaves a lot of nice functionality on the table), you still get the
benefit of a more succinct syntax, and can embed such customisations in
the default LaTeX class fairly easily --- see
https://tecosaur.github.io/emacs-config/config.html#class-templates

Functionally, all I'm doing is

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
(add-to-list 'org-latex-classes
  ("my-article"
   "...preamble..."))

(setq org-latex-default-class "my-article")
#+end_src

> And even for the most basic tasks like configuring
> how a paragraph will look?

Yea, some export settings have a convenient variable for them, others
have to be done by hand. I've always been able to get my desired output
though :)

> Also, that doesn't work. Put it in the document, new
> PDF, looks the same.

Oh, if you just pasted the SRC block from my email, that wouldn't.
You need to put the commands in a
#+latex_header: ...
line. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Regards,

Timothy.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  1:56               ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
@ 2020-09-16  6:15                 ` Stefan Nobis
  2020-09-17  0:51                   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Nobis @ 2020-09-16  6:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Hi.

Details about Org tables are to be found in the manual at different
places (maybe not optimal, but that's the current structure). First of
all, aspects of tables inside Emacs and Org are discussed here:

   https://orgmode.org/manual/Tables.html#Tables

But everything about exporting (generating PDF via LaTeX, HTML, etc.)
is discussed in the export sections. So details about exporting Org
tables to LaTeX can be found here:

   https://orgmode.org/manual/Tables-in-LaTeX-export.html#Tables-in-LaTeX-export

Here you can find the relevant option ":center". For example the
following Org table will be exported to LaTeX without centering and
using the booktabs package to nicely format the table:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---

#+attr_latex: :center nil :booktabs t
| My | Columns |
|----+---------|
|  1 |       2 |
|  3 |       4 |

--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---


Generally, you have the option to just let Org handle all of the LaTeX
details. In this case, in most cases you do not even need to know
anything about LaTeX - that's what some people are excited about. On
the other hand, in this case you get what Org thinks is good enough
for you. If you want to fine-tune every detail about the resulting
PDF, you have no choice but to know LaTeX and use the options and
hooks to sprinkle your fine-tuning in the document.

BTW: I'm a long-time LaTeX user and a big fan of LaTeX. If I want to
typeset a document and tune any detail of it, in most cases I use
LaTeX and not try to modify Org to generate my hand-optimized LaTeX
code. On the other hand nowadays in many cases I just do not need to
control every little aspect of my final documents or the LaTeX code.
In these cases Org helps a lot to speed up creating simple, small
documents. I customized some aspects once globally and have to type
less (but still know LaTeX and sprinkle a few fine-tunings here and
there). So sometimes I view Org as a kind of very flexible LaTeX
template engine. :)

-- 
Until the next mail...,
Stefan.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  4:31     ` Tim Cross
@ 2020-09-16  6:21       ` TEC
  2020-09-16 22:11       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: TEC @ 2020-09-16  6:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Tim Cross; +Cc: emacs-orgmode


pssst. I think you're a bit off. See my reply ;)

All the best,

Timothy.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  1:58   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-16  3:46     ` TEC
  2020-09-16  4:31     ` Tim Cross
@ 2020-09-16  6:54     ` tomas
  2020-09-17  0:52       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-16  7:37     ` Stefan Nobis
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: tomas @ 2020-09-16  6:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

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On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 03:58:17AM +0200, Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. wrote:
> Tim Cross wrote:
> 
> > #+latex_class: korma-article
> 
> user-error: Unknown LaTeX class ‘korma-article’

This might have been a typo: there is a family of LaTeX classes called
"koma" (not "korma", that's rather a family of Indian dishes ;-)

That said, I fail to find a korma-article.cls. So perhaps this wasn't
meant /literally/ by Tim, but rather a placeholder.

> > #+latex_header:  \setlength{\parindent}{0pt}
> 
> Yes, that's removed the indentation but didn't insert
> a blank line...

I think Tim is just furnishing examples, not a complete solution.

LaTeX is a world unto itself, and to fine-tune the results of your
LaTeX exporter (the PDF exporter is just a little appendix on that),
you'll have to dive a bit into that.

Or just ask around here, but best with concrete, little goals each
time.

Cheers
 - t

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  4:11       ` Emanuel Berg
  2020-09-16  4:51         ` TEC
@ 2020-09-16  6:56         ` tomas
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: tomas @ 2020-09-16  6:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 505 bytes --]

On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 06:11:52AM +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> TEC wrote:
> 
> > #+begin_src latex
> > \setlength{\parindent}{0pt}
> > \setlength{\parskip}{\baselineskip}
> > #+end_src
> 
> I know this commands well from my LaTeX projects,
> but I'm gonna use LaTeX anyway, what's the use of
> using org-mode?

LaTeX is (as you might know already ;-) for typesetting. Org
is for organising information.

Sometimes you want to typeset a representation of that information.

Cheers
 - t

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  1:58   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
                       ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-09-16  6:54     ` tomas
@ 2020-09-16  7:37     ` Stefan Nobis
  2020-09-16 23:08       ` Samuel Wales
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Nobis @ 2020-09-16  7:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Emanuel Berg via "General discussions about Org-mode."
<emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> writes:

> Tim Cross wrote:

>> #+latex_class: korma-article

> user-error: Unknown LaTeX class ‘korma-article’

>> #+latex_header:  \setlength{\parindent}{0pt}

> Yes, that's removed the indentation but didn't insert
> a blank line...

First of all: You don't want this. :)

Marking paragraphs by blank lines and without indentation is deemed
less readable (see for example section 3.10 "Marking Paragraphs" in
https://komascript.de/~mkohm/scrguien.pdf).

But if you really insist on using this style, still the variant of
setting the length parindent and parskip is considered bad practise.
These are very fundamental values for LaTeX and influence a lot more
that just the space between paragraphs. A much better solution would
be to use the package =parskip= (just add "\usepackage{parskip}" to
the preamble of the LaTeX document or add "#+LATEX_HEADER:
\usepackage{parskip}" to the preamble of the Org document).

If you want to customize the Org LaTeX export more globally, you can
put something like this in your Emacs init.el:

#+begin_src elisp
(add-to-list 'org-latex-classes
               '("koma-article"
                 "\\documentclass[a4paper, pagesize, headings=normal, version=last]{scrartcl}"
                 ("\\section{%s}" . "\\section*{%s}")
                 ("\\subsection{%s}" . "\\subsection*{%s}")
                 ("\\subsubsection{%s}" . "\\subsubsection*{%s}")
                 ("\\paragraph{%s}" . "\\paragraph*{%s}")
                 ("\\subparagraph{%s}" . "\\subparagraph*{%s}")))

(setq org-latex-default-class "koma-article")

(setq org-latex-packages-alist
        '(("" "unicode-math" t ("lualatex" "xelatex"))
          ("" "caption" nil)
          ("" "booktabs" t)))
#+end_src

In the case of the document classes of the Koma world, you have quite
some options for paragraph formatting. If you still insist on your
style of paragraph markings, you may add "parskip=full" to the
global options of the documentclass.

With the above settings, you globally define your preferred LaTeX
documentclass and some global settings as well as add some additionals
packages that are used on every LaTeX export done via Org. So you do
not have to put anything special in the individual Org documents but
the pure content (at the cost that the same Org document may produce a
different output on other Emacs installations with different global
settings).

For more details on what can be configured see
https://orgmode.org/manual/Exporting.html#Exporting. The options there
are mostly presented as in-document settings but most if not all of
them may also be set in some way globally via Emacs init.

-- 
Until the next mail...,
Stefan.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 22:32           ` Emanuel Berg
  2020-09-15 22:37             ` Matt Huszagh
@ 2020-09-16  7:44             ` Thomas S. Dye
  2020-09-17  0:57               ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-17  9:59               ` Stefan Nobis
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Thomas S. Dye @ 2020-09-16  7:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode; +Cc: Matt Huszagh

This is the unix design: let each tool do what it does well.

LaTeX decides how to format and align tables, and it does this 
very well.  Nevertheless, it does this at the level of the 
document class, which decides how tables are formatted and aligned 
for the whole document.  The idea of having a user decide table 
formatting and alignment on a case by case basis is completely 
foreign to the design of LaTeX.  It is also completely foreign to 
the best practices of book design.

There are many pieces of software that will allow the user to the 
violate best typesetting practices easily.  LaTeX is not one of 
them.

hth,
Tom

Emanuel Berg writes:

> Matt Huszagh wrote:
>
>>> Yes, after export to PDF, they are centered.
>>> they = the whole table items.
>>
>> I think this link
>> (https://orgmode.org/manual/Tables-in-LaTeX-export.html)
>> is the relevant part of the documentation.
>
> Yeah, but in LaTeX being left aligned is not some
> property of the table, everything is left-aligned,
> and if you want it otherwise, you put between
> \begin{center} and \end{center} ...


--
Thomas S. Dye
https://tsdye.online/tsdye


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  4:13       ` Emanuel Berg
@ 2020-09-16 13:48         ` Eric S Fraga
  2020-09-16 16:32           ` Stefan Nobis
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2020-09-16 13:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: TEC, emacs-orgmode

On Wednesday, 16 Sep 2020 at 06:13, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> TEC wrote:
>
>> #+begin_src latex
>> \setlength{\parindent}{0pt}
>> \setlength{\parskip}{\baselineskip}
>> #+end_src
>
> Also, that doesn't work. Put it in the document, new
> PDF, looks the same.

Try

#+latex_header: \setlength{\parindent}{0pt}
#+latex_header: \setlength{\parskip}{\baselineskip}

instead.  This works for me but only use it when required by the
recipient of the document (e.g. camera ready conference
proceedings).  Otherwise, I always go with LaTeX defaults as those were
designed by people that understood typesetting (unlike your average
conference organizer unfortunately).

-- 
: Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.50, Org release_9.3.7-725-g7bc18e


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16 13:48         ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2020-09-16 16:32           ` Stefan Nobis
  2020-09-16 22:51             ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-16 22:53             ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Nobis @ 2020-09-16 16:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> #+latex_header: \setlength{\parindent}{0pt}
> #+latex_header: \setlength{\parskip}{\baselineskip}

Better use

#+latex_header: \usepackage{parskip}

as this package has less bad side-effects on other parts of the
document than setting these far-reaching lengths directly.

But otherwise I second your recommendation to not use this style of
marking paragraphs if not absolutely required.

-- 
Until the next mail...,
Stefan.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  4:31     ` Tim Cross
  2020-09-16  6:21       ` TEC
@ 2020-09-16 22:11       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-16 22:28         ` Tim Cross
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-16 22:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Tim Cross wrote:

> #+latex_header: \parskip 1.5ex

Got it! Thanks! Now it works, with:

  #+latex_header: \parskip   1.5ex
  #+latex_header: \parindent   0pt

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16 22:11       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
@ 2020-09-16 22:28         ` Tim Cross
  2020-09-16 22:31           ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Tim Cross @ 2020-09-16 22:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode


Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> writes:

> Tim Cross wrote:
>
>> #+latex_header: \parskip 1.5ex
>
> Got it! Thanks! Now it works, with:
>
>   #+latex_header: \parskip   1.5ex
>   #+latex_header: \parindent   0pt

Note that I agree with the other post recommending using the parskip
package as a better solution. I had forgotten about that package when I
posted the above, which is really just a dirty hack.

Tim

-- 
Tim Cross


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16 22:28         ` Tim Cross
@ 2020-09-16 22:31           ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-16 22:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Tim Cross wrote:

>> #+latex_header: \parskip   1.5ex
>> #+latex_header: \parindent   0pt
>
> Note that I agree with the other post recommending
> using the parskip package as a better solution.
> I had forgotten about that package when I posted
> the above, which is really just a dirty hack.

Yeah? Looks OK to me :)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16 16:32           ` Stefan Nobis
@ 2020-09-16 22:51             ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-16 22:53             ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-16 22:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Stefan Nobis wrote:

> But otherwise I second your recommendation to not
> use this style of marking paragraphs if not
> absolutely required.

Well, I'm not exactly required to do anything, but
I know what I think something should look like...

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16 16:32           ` Stefan Nobis
  2020-09-16 22:51             ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
@ 2020-09-16 22:53             ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-17  9:48               ` Stefan Nobis
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-16 22:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Stefan Nobis wrote:

>> #+latex_header: \setlength{\parindent}{0pt}
>> #+latex_header: \setlength{\parskip}{\baselineskip}
>
> Better use
>
> #+latex_header: \usepackage{parskip}
>
> as this package has less bad side-effects on other
> parts of the document than setting these far-reaching
> lengths directly.

OK, but the values still ned to be specified, right?

Or you mean all three:

  #+latex_header: \usepackage{parskip}
  #+latex_header: \parskip   1.5ex
  #+latex_header: \parindent   0pt

?

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  7:37     ` Stefan Nobis
@ 2020-09-16 23:08       ` Samuel Wales
  2020-09-17  0:16         ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-17  9:25         ` Stefan Nobis
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Samuel Wales @ 2020-09-16 23:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

On 9/16/20, Stefan Nobis <stefan-ml@snobis.de> wrote:
> Marking paragraphs by blank lines and without indentation is deemed
> less readable (see for example section 3.10 "Marking Paragraphs" in
> https://komascript.de/~mkohm/scrguien.pdf).
>
> But if you really insist on using this style, still the variant of
> setting the length parindent and parskip is considered bad practise.

for my part, i appreciate your using the "wrong" style for your email
message, as my brain works significantly better with it.  [i am not
talking about anybody else's brain.]


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16 23:08       ` Samuel Wales
@ 2020-09-17  0:16         ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-17  9:25         ` Stefan Nobis
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-17  0:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Samuel Wales wrote:

>> Marking paragraphs by blank lines and without
>> indentation is deemed less readable (see for
>> example section 3.10 "Marking Paragraphs" in
>> https://komascript.de/~mkohm/scrguien.pdf). [...]
>
> for my part, i appreciate your using the "wrong"
> style for your email message, as my brain works
> significantly better with it. [i am not talking
> about anybody else's brain.]

:)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  4:51         ` TEC
@ 2020-09-17  0:46           ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-17  0:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

TEC wrote:

> You see, strangely enough - if you want to tweak
> the result of Org exporting to LaTeX, you have to
> write LaTeX :P

I got it to work. Thanks for your help. I'm not
abandoning org-mode just yet...

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  6:15                 ` Stefan Nobis
@ 2020-09-17  0:51                   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-17  9:55                     ` Stefan Nobis
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-17  0:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Stefan Nobis wrote:

> #+attr_latex: :center nil :booktabs t
> | My | Columns |
> |----+---------|
> |  1 |       2 |
> |  3 |       4 |

"PDF file produced with errors."

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  6:54     ` tomas
@ 2020-09-17  0:52       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-17  0:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

tomas wrote:

> Or just ask around here, but best with concrete,
> little goals each time.

?

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  7:44             ` Thomas S. Dye
@ 2020-09-17  0:57               ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-17  1:14                 ` Thomas S. Dye
  2020-09-17  9:59               ` Stefan Nobis
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-17  0:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Thomas S Dye wrote:

> There are many pieces of software that will allow
> the user to the violate best typesetting practices
> easily. LaTeX is not one of them.

In my experience, you can typeset whatever you want
with LaTeX, and in any way that you want.

non-fiction book:

  https://dataswamp.org/~incal/borta/borta.pdf

math teacher ad:

  https://dataswamp.org/~incal/about/matte.pdf

university paper:

  https://dataswamp.org/~incal/hs-linux/docs/report/report.pdf

(don't even remember what this was supposed to be)

  https://dataswamp.org/~incal/fps/cis/task_flow_demo.pdf

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-17  0:57               ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
@ 2020-09-17  1:14                 ` Thomas S. Dye
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Thomas S. Dye @ 2020-09-17  1:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Yes, of course.  But first you need to write a style or class 
file.

All the best,
Tom

Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. writes:

> Thomas S Dye wrote:
>
>> There are many pieces of software that will allow
>> the user to the violate best typesetting practices
>> easily. LaTeX is not one of them.
>
> In my experience, you can typeset whatever you want
> with LaTeX, and in any way that you want.
>
> non-fiction book:
>
>   https://dataswamp.org/~incal/borta/borta.pdf
>
> math teacher ad:
>
>   https://dataswamp.org/~incal/about/matte.pdf
>
> university paper:
>
>   https://dataswamp.org/~incal/hs-linux/docs/report/report.pdf
>
> (don't even remember what this was supposed to be)
>
>   https://dataswamp.org/~incal/fps/cis/task_flow_demo.pdf


--
Thomas S. Dye
https://tsdye.online/tsdye


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 21:01       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2020-09-15 21:10         ` Samuel Wales
  2020-09-15 21:44         ` Matt Huszagh
@ 2020-09-17  4:39         ` Nick Dokos
  2020-09-17  5:08           ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Nick Dokos @ 2020-09-17  4:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Emanuel Berg via "General discussions about Org-mode." <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> writes:

> Matt Huszagh wrote:
>
>> Were you referring to the tables being centered
>> after export (I see from another part of this chain
>> that that's what you were referring to in the 3rd
>> question) when you wanted them left-aligned?
>> If that is the case, it would really help if you
>> specify that in your original question.
>> Appearance in an org-mode buffer and appearance in
>> the PDF, HTML, etc. after export are very different
>> things with very different configuration.
>
> Yes, after export to PDF, they are centered. they =
> the whole table items.

(setq org-latex-tables-centered nil)

-- 
Nick

"There are only two hard problems in computer science: cache
invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors." -Martin Fowler



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-17  4:39         ` Nick Dokos
@ 2020-09-17  5:08           ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-17  5:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Nick Dokos wrote:

> (setq org-latex-tables-centered nil)

Yes! :) Thanks :)

That took a couple of messages... :O

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16 23:08       ` Samuel Wales
  2020-09-17  0:16         ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
@ 2020-09-17  9:25         ` Stefan Nobis
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Nobis @ 2020-09-17  9:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> for my part, i appreciate your using the "wrong" style for your
> email message

A plain text document presented in a monospaced font is quite a
different thing than a (longer) PDF with a plethora of layout and
micro-typographic options.

Do you also appreciate the workarounds to represent complex math
formulas in plain text and do you prefer these workarounds to a nicely
set formula in e.g. a PDF?

So I would say everything depends on the context. In books I very much
prefer the usual style of marking paragraphs by indenting the first
line and no extra space between paragraphs. IMHO much easier to read
(and in case of books with many special elements like formulas also
much less ambiguous).

But in other contexts (even when producing PDFs via LaTeX) other
styles may be preferable. I just add my remarks because I just too
often see the "mail style" marking of paragraphs in longer texts
(reports etc.) where the usual "book style" would be much more
friendly to at least my eyes. Just be aware of the options and try to
find a style that is pleasant to most of your readers. :)

-- 
Until the next mail...,
Stefan.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16 22:53             ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
@ 2020-09-17  9:48               ` Stefan Nobis
  2020-09-17 13:37                 ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Nobis @ 2020-09-17  9:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Emanuel Berg via "General discussions about Org-mode."
<emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> writes:

> OK, but the values still ned to be specified, right?

No, just use the package - it sets the relevant lengths to change the
style of marking paragraphs and tries hard to also reset every other
length that depends on the original values of these variables.

Here is an example of a quite minimal LaTeX document that should show
the effect:

#+begin_src latex
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{blindtext}
\usepackage{parskip}
\begin{document}
\Blinddocument
\end{document}
#+end_src

As I said: The lengths parskip and parindent are very far-reaching,
fundamental variables in LaTeX. They are used in many places and
globally setting them may lead to unexpected side-effects.

If you just look at a couple of paragraphs you won't see any problems.
But if you write more complex documents, using packages like listings to
display code, use other environments mixed with paragraphs and lists,
there will occur problems with the spacing.

I don't remember all the details, I just always remember to use either
the package parskip or (in most of my use-cases) the documentclass
option "parskip=full" from the Koma script classes (that I use nearly
exclusively) - when I... consider to use this style of marking
paragraphs. :)

--
Until the next mail...,
Stefan.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-17  0:51                   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
@ 2020-09-17  9:55                     ` Stefan Nobis
  2020-09-17 13:42                       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Nobis @ 2020-09-17  9:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Emanuel Berg via "General discussions about Org-mode."
<emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> writes:

>> #+attr_latex: :center nil :booktabs t
>> | My | Columns |
>> |----+---------|
>> |  1 |       2 |
>> |  3 |       4 |

> "PDF file produced with errors."

Sorry that I try to make more general examples that are not exactly
tailored to your use case. As I said in the paragraph above that
example, the package "booktabs" is needed (it is one of my default
packages, so in my config it will always be added to LaTeX code
generated by Org). So either add "#+latex_header:
\usepackage{booktabs}" or remove the ":booktabs t" part.

-- 
Until the next mail...,
Stefan.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-16  7:44             ` Thomas S. Dye
  2020-09-17  0:57               ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
@ 2020-09-17  9:59               ` Stefan Nobis
  2020-09-17 13:43                 ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Nobis @ 2020-09-17  9:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

"Thomas S. Dye" <tsd@tsdye.online> writes:

> There are many pieces of software that will allow the user to the
> violate best typesetting practices easily. LaTeX is not one of them.

Not quite right. I have seen people create really ugly source code
*and* ugly output with LaTeX with ease. You can create garbage with
any kind of software. :)

-- 
Until the next mail...,
Stefan.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-17  9:48               ` Stefan Nobis
@ 2020-09-17 13:37                 ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-17 13:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Stefan Nobis wrote:

>> OK, but the values still ned to be
>> specified, right?
>
> No, just use the package - it sets the relevant
> lengths to change the style of marking paragraphs
> and tries hard to also reset every other length
> that depends on the original values of
> these variables.

You are right, thanks.

> As I said: The lengths parskip and parindent are
> very far-reaching, fundamental variables in LaTeX.
> They are used in many places and globally setting
> them may lead to unexpected side-effects.

Yes, I understood :)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-17  9:55                     ` Stefan Nobis
@ 2020-09-17 13:42                       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-17 13:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Stefan Nobis wrote:

>>> #+attr_latex: :center nil :booktabs t
>>> | My | Columns |
>>> |----+---------|
>>> |  1 |       2 |
>>> |  3 |       4 |
>
>> "PDF file produced with errors."
>
> Sorry that I try to make more general examples that
> are not exactly tailored to your use case.
> As I said in the paragraph above that example, the
> package "booktabs" is needed (it is one of my
> default packages, so in my config it will always be
> added to LaTeX code generated by Org). So either
> add "#+latex_header: \usepackage{booktabs}" or
> remove the ":booktabs t" part.

I _think_ I tried with just :center nil (because
I didn't know what booktabs refered to) and that the
result then was the same...

But anyway, I know have `org-latex-tables-centered'
so it is OK. [1] There is an
`org-latex-tables-booktabs' as well, BTW. Both in
ox-latex.el


[1] https://dataswamp.org/~incal/emacs-init/org-my.el

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-17  9:59               ` Stefan Nobis
@ 2020-09-17 13:43                 ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-17 13:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Stefan Nobis wrote:

>> There are many pieces of software that will allow
>> the user to the violate best typesetting practices
>> easily. LaTeX is not one of them.
>
> Not quite right. I have seen people create really
> ugly source code *and* ugly output with LaTeX with
> ease. You can create garbage with any kind of
> software. :)

And that is a good thing :)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-15 19:38   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
@ 2020-09-17 14:27     ` Alexander Adolf
  2020-09-17 14:47       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 53+ messages in thread
From: Alexander Adolf @ 2020-09-17 14:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Emanuel Berg, emacs-orgmode

Emanuel Berg via "General discussions about Org-mode."
<emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> writes:

> Re: basic org questions
> Russell Adams wrote:
>
>>> 1) How do I make a region italic? [...]
>>
>> https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/18101/org-mode-multi-line-emphasis-and-bold
>
> OK, thanks, not the same good looking syntax tho but
> good enough for government work, I suppose.
> [...]

I use visual-line-mode (which also enables word-wrap by default) for Org
files. For instance:

(add-hook 'org-mode-hook (lambda ()
                           (turn-off-auto-fill)
                           (visual-line-mode)
                           (flyspell-mode)))

That way lines get wrapped to the buffer's width visually, but
physically are still single lines. Hence, I can add italics. bold,
whatever, across multiple _visual_ lines, and the formatting is what I
expect, because in reality it's a single _physical_ line only.


Hoping to have helped,

  --alex


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

* Re: basic org questions
  2020-09-17 14:27     ` Alexander Adolf
@ 2020-09-17 14:47       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 53+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode. @ 2020-09-17 14:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Alexander Adolf wrote:

> I use visual-line-mode (which also enables
> word-wrap by default) for Org files. For instance:
>
> (add-hook 'org-mode-hook (lambda ()
>                            (turn-off-auto-fill)
>                            (visual-line-mode)
>                            (flyspell-mode)))
>
> That way lines get wrapped to the buffer's width
> visually, but physically are still single lines.
> Hence, I can add italics. bold, whatever, across
> multiple _visual_ lines, and the formatting is what
> I expect, because in reality it's a single
> _physical_ line only.

Good point, but that would change my by now built-in
finger habits and editing practices, so that'd bite
somewhere else instead, if I did that, like,
instantly :)

Anyway speaking of editing... using `visual-mode'
seems to have solved the visual issues like a charm
but editing sometimes, not often, but still,
gets wierd.

One example is this table, with point at ^. Here, hit
DEL and the vertical line (bar) won't move.
Because DEL isn't `delete-backward-char', but
`org-delete-backward-char'. But that's OK, I can
change that...

  | inlägg | [[https://www.facebook.com/raddaeriksbergsskogar/posts][https://www.facebook.com/raddaeriksbergsskogar/posts]] |
  | grupp  | [[https://www.facebook.com/raddaeriksbergsskogar][https://www.facebook.com/raddaeriksbergsskogar]]             |
                                                                                                                         ^
-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 53+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2020-09-17 14:59 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 53+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-09-15 15:29 basic org questions Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-15 15:44 ` Russell Adams
2020-09-15 19:38   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-17 14:27     ` Alexander Adolf
2020-09-17 14:47       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-15 15:49 ` tomas
2020-09-15 19:50   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-15 17:08 ` Matt Huszagh
2020-09-15 19:52   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-15 20:49     ` Matt Huszagh
2020-09-15 21:01       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-15 21:10         ` Samuel Wales
2020-09-15 21:44         ` Matt Huszagh
2020-09-15 22:32           ` Emanuel Berg
2020-09-15 22:37             ` Matt Huszagh
2020-09-16  1:56               ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-16  6:15                 ` Stefan Nobis
2020-09-17  0:51                   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-17  9:55                     ` Stefan Nobis
2020-09-17 13:42                       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-16  7:44             ` Thomas S. Dye
2020-09-17  0:57               ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-17  1:14                 ` Thomas S. Dye
2020-09-17  9:59               ` Stefan Nobis
2020-09-17 13:43                 ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-17  4:39         ` Nick Dokos
2020-09-17  5:08           ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-15 19:23 ` Aleksandar Dimitrov
2020-09-16  0:04 ` Tim Cross
2020-09-16  1:58   ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-16  3:46     ` TEC
2020-09-16  4:11       ` Emanuel Berg
2020-09-16  4:51         ` TEC
2020-09-17  0:46           ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-16  6:56         ` tomas
2020-09-16  4:13       ` Emanuel Berg
2020-09-16 13:48         ` Eric S Fraga
2020-09-16 16:32           ` Stefan Nobis
2020-09-16 22:51             ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-16 22:53             ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-17  9:48               ` Stefan Nobis
2020-09-17 13:37                 ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-16  4:31     ` Tim Cross
2020-09-16  6:21       ` TEC
2020-09-16 22:11       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-16 22:28         ` Tim Cross
2020-09-16 22:31           ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-16  6:54     ` tomas
2020-09-17  0:52       ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-16  7:37     ` Stefan Nobis
2020-09-16 23:08       ` Samuel Wales
2020-09-17  0:16         ` Emanuel Berg via General discussions about Org-mode.
2020-09-17  9:25         ` Stefan Nobis

unofficial mirror of emacs-orgmode@gnu.org

This inbox may be cloned and mirrored by anyone:

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	# If you have public-inbox 1.1+ installed, you may
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