From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id qObfJ0kJUGEVGQEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 07:46:49 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id AEmEI0kJUGFUPQAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 05:46:49 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FD08EFC6 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 07:46:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:44852 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUMzt-0008M9-Id for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 01:46:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60002) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUMzQ-0008M1-6F for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 01:46:16 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:54164) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUMzO-0003wh-KO for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 01:46:15 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mUMzM-0004yQ-Tz for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 07:46:12 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org From: Adam Porter Subject: Re: [Worg] Proposing a few CSS changes Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 00:46:06 -0500 Message-ID: <87sfxropnl.fsf@alphapapa.net> References: <87fstud7ho.fsf@alphapapa.net> <87pmswe7ur.fsf@gmail.com> <87wnn4npdc.fsf@alphapapa.net> <87o88gdm82.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (gnu/linux) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1632635209; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=ZsGN7cfSKsTOVk2nec/sEh4Vz9nC8D8GzKVLmcEKyT8=; b=XXDtvUlKm8xXkyFCxdpPLqtZKIiNd/m5cvbo8pl6r+orHHgkl87hsMqx+OtRjD9C11hyvi u6TqQToxl0kVKyl4NgT5cXYx/LylXsalyVPlhK5jD+2ledhbKoO0Tp9EB8Pra3Y1w6CggM 7R87L2k1SkyWP8wcbOLnw6Djik0dbnloSJadbykJkTmLh3zpEEN0RKbw/7AMhO9+UPcWh2 T3CWikGgI/dF/keBTT0bzJp/eP8Kmt2ZOhzFPNH/8/zsAX3NqcuVLBB5PXUznz8Ni8Gj0f krZhUUtVsf4oY3Z68p18JpJh7oXgec9PeqMCuiaclhgrAe8pXGdCz415iA7r6g== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1632635209; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=QumGAxXb8KArQ1u0BMJH49uOQZ8wRMbbr2FkEOHfdAccD+oJ4A/n64LfElc/dmikGQe+bz 9f5Pcd5VIFcGilPfWDkUKl5gHIIH9+s6Vj9sOuJmSA/tk2a2pivRFHOyDd6iJVMnTDzhi1 NY6JRBNetKedSKoC+aiQq3oUH9ZtM2MRgLKNOYtLIv3fJtbzkbuaoYVHo6AHKrp2wl5yJR x3558jKjDsXvNjmo7BnYlAAl7mBXoYdIHvy99nYhj93uFIW6Ct6jS9z0aOQ1kS8l/Up3/g YmP+xxTTEO1xY+5LJ/jH/bopwglH3pFeLG6dkLwO1H06DOXto4ANnyIy8CqeuQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.39 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 2FD08EFC6 X-Spam-Score: -0.39 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: FpV4zFzxgjcL Hi Timothy, Timothy writes: >> I find it frustrating when I’ve configured my browser to […] > > I think this is the source of our differences of opinion. I personally haven’t > touched my browser’s default CSS, and am not a fan of the default styling, but > clearly you have changed your browser’s default CSS to something that you find > works well. > > This leads me to a slightly conflicted position, because I both like the idea > that if the user has set up their browser to use a font they like, a text size > they like etc. that sites would respect that. But I also suspect that very few > people ever do this, and am not that happy about how things look with unmodified > browser defaults. Here I lean towards trying to ensure the best average > experience, and unfortunately I think that means overriding the default CSS. No, I haven't changed my browser's default CSS, only the font settings in preferences. These are standard features, having been present on browsers for decades, are easily adjusted by any user, and ideally they should take into account platform defaults as well. These include both font family and size. We should keep in mind that the platforms and systems which view the site are wide and varied. Some users may have high-DPI monitors in dim environments, others may have low-DPI monitors in bright environments; some users may have perfect eyesight, while others may be legally blind. Some users may use an OS that uses strong hinting (e.g. MS-Windows), while others may use one that does little-to-none (e.g. MacOS). Because of those factors, there is no good default for us to use; what looks good on our systems may look very poor or even unreadable to other users. So I think it's very important to respect the user's settings, especially for long texts and documentation (i.e. not the "home page" parts of Web sites whose purpose is to present projects as a whole).