From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Achim Gratz Subject: Re: More clocktable breakage Date: Tue, 02 May 2017 19:32:39 +0200 Message-ID: <87r307tb9k.fsf@Rainer.invalid> References: <877f39nr05.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <87d1d0p2qx.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87tw5bumck.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <87shkt4tuf.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <8737ct1xyr.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87fugt4npu.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <87pofxzctf.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87wpa4fjio.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <878tmixsvo.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87tw556kxo.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <87vapjgq93.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49399) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d5bfT-0002d7-0S for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 02 May 2017 13:32:56 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d5bfP-0001jp-Nd for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 02 May 2017 13:32:54 -0400 Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=60710 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d5bfP-0001im-Gk for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 02 May 2017 13:32:51 -0400 Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d5bfD-00084z-Jn for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 02 May 2017 19:32:39 +0200 List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Nicolas Goaziou writes: >> I'd say anything org-element-* should exclusively return syntactical >> things. Context dependence needs to be dealt with elsewhere. > > I'm not sure to understand this. Syntactical things are all about > context dependence in Org. Do you mean /context independance/ needs to > be dealt with elsewhere? No, I meant context of application, rather than context in the syntactical sense. Org-element-* deals with syntax, nothing else. Whether you need strict syntactical interpretation or something else gets decided someplace else. > Could you provide examples about that? In particular "providing > timestamps as arguments to any processing functions" sounds odd, in > particular from someone who cringes when I suggest to add a second > optional argument to a single function. Whatever it sounds like, what you want in the clocktables example and the properties example (and elsewhere) is something that looks, walks and talks like a timestamp if you'd put it into the proper context. In each of these places the text that looks like timestamp but isn't (org-element says so) will be fed into some machinery that emerges with a result that is indistinguishable from what you'd get if that text would have been a proper timestamp and then uses that result to do whatever it wants to do with it (i.e. most certainly not build up an agenda, although it could do that as well). It uses a bit of Org syntax in the improper context to achieve this (and this requires precisely to ignore that context or at least check with something more loose than org-element). >> If I'd follow that road, I could edit what looks like a timestamp >> everywhere, regardless of context. I don't know if that's the right >> thing to do and I don't even expect consensus among the Org user base. >> I personally see no need to do that. > > I do see it, tho. This is analogous to links in comments. If you see > something looking like a timestamp (or a link), you can expect some > commands to operate on it. This is exactly what is biting us at the > moment. In a comment that timestamp-looking text doesn't have any function, so it's in a different category, I must insist. As I said, I can see somebody wanting to have this text be editable like any other timestamp also, but it's really the other uses where it's used meta-syntactically that I'd like to focus on. ONe of the differences to text in comments (or generally quoted material) is that there is an expectation that this sort of timestamp is correct, since they are intended to be input to further processing. Regards, Achim. -- +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+ Waldorf MIDI Implementation & additional documentation: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfDocs