From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id kKLHLRTcF2HkMAEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 14 Aug 2021 17:07:00 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id gJCdKRTcF2HqfAAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 14 Aug 2021 15:07:00 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 296F8D787 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 2021 17:07:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:37140 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mEvFS-00029g-JL for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2021 11:06:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57400) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mEvEq-00029Y-Jf for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2021 11:06:20 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:55851) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mEvEo-0003SH-4E for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2021 11:06:20 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 23D6E240103 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 2021 17:06:13 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1628953573; bh=6Co85oo2V9KaerMFzHAzuzzxis/scR2el0hqJZ85RfE=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=cWB5R/t4cLVcy4x8QRdU9r+oA1hQbuYltkucvvwmuHgbL0VLk9cyNGpzy0Q8AcrzE AEdtsLn6AyA0zYv2I3F7Wt0i05yGxuLJnEb3ReL9fDvHrMAX35cW6f9n5YmFEFafgl UjlJqXKcheRQJk6fxu6D44VMMYbOi46EvvFRbbTJGEEPu6hmkslj9tviG5SWxg13Ah 4vkAXhs6PQ+sJ9rnwRQAOB+wFpeY9iFE5O8oP8BKRT93NgkCxfgq0GVlYe3ozwRXfe iHn6YmzjpQPqsdGG1QkyeNMYPEI6LZpuRXbEZFhHPbSEEp4QxrjnakllkpVUrpQt6N Hzmh2NKmXfh9Q== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Gn3fD4X7Tz6tmH for ; Sat, 14 Aug 2021 17:06:12 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Juan_Manuel_Mac=C3=ADas?= To: orgmode Subject: Smart quotes for Greek (questions for a possible patch) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 15:06:11 +0000 Message-ID: <87r1ew5an0.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=maciaschain@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1628953620; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=6Co85oo2V9KaerMFzHAzuzzxis/scR2el0hqJZ85RfE=; b=F+HOO92/eT4kPdPCfDk88cGBZ+dMmmyleEkTOZ3PlwZMfDPz7g1XmkWt6DXN3MT4WQSEwB hRRKDmjUaTPi2s0cbzkLw5D/1M5fntnziGWg/GNtfh7VpgdxjuXElhNW6U9FXlXXT5Uhon BEpFe1Ytxr8HhILGpnqTHnEay5EjK6uHBYgbBD/bp7msdm1UnQNaiSose5Q0lf88caNXYf QBY4V8X5PdpqKyNraVsBDkhxRaGbzLMkg3KNcpAP9jDfsN/ZQX8RtqOYawRm1kMeaboRHs KAjOdk1KvHYaqnQsH+uz5f81okOer14wCYKN8xkyuo99WuyBKPFmB91kfn7YvA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1628953620; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=oKJ0URC/0R7eqVavZOCt8Nd/L8zRswSRhG6SvMOcyK1zKi3cF/zrSWJBzg/aMBf2Ramfwd 5GVJySo1ElKUWHq3fSMPPCAGen9qpCYPn1lu5ubSmKHnnCF4VchfUO0e/cLJJVkyt3MnZY D7l3VpjPHkkA94r0BQFmSmMC+dpiXAqjZaoI0G+tMw7350+SWdqMyFnXZovkB41cqwNXrT DDD98Q53vd9TBXpS9H1OZ/Mf710LMgDAHMjveB0um8pxpsjEDx0BMrK3f2OIhxqmPQGIkU XwrWgIEV3A+WdgiS90pjdqBbGViID7LXUfR7us5Z3ZB5QQHwKJ7/+eIJd3vnVQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b="cWB5R/t4"; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.61 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b="cWB5R/t4"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 296F8D787 X-Spam-Score: -1.61 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: jlf3hjRQl3fV Hi, I would like to submit a patch to add smart quotes for Greek in `org-export-smart-quotes-alist', but I have a couple of questions. First of all, I am not a native speaker of Greek but of Spanish, so I would also like to have the opinion of some Greek native speaker, to see if my solutions are correct. The second question concerns the second-level quotation marks for Greek. The first level ones are the same as the Spanish or French quotes (without the extra space of French): =C2=AB=C2=BB, so no problem. I follow = here the rule that Yannis Haralambous explains in "From Unicode to Typography, a Case Study: the Greek Script" (1999, p. 20: http://web.archive.org/web/20120229131933/http://omega.enstb.org/yannis/pdf= /boston99.pdf). According to Haralambous, on the second-level quotation marks (the emphases are mine): #+begin_quote Also interesting is the case of the second level quotes. Here, quotes of the size and shape of the English ones are used, but the opening quotes are inverted, similar in form to raised small round guillemets [...]. Fortunately these quotes are provided by the Unicode standard (*U+201F* and U+201D, the latter being the same closing double quotes as in English); *the author knows no other language in which this combination of double quotes might be used*. #+end_quote So the problem is in the character U+201F (assuming Haralambous is right). For the keywords `:utf8' and `html' no problem. But I don't know what to put in `:latex' or in `:texinfo': #+begin_src emacs-lisp (secondary-opening :utf-8 "=E2=80=9F" :html "‟;" :latex "??" :texinfo= "??") #+end_src In fact, I think latex2e has no command or shorthand predefined for this character (see https://ibb.co/ZBGmwYP). There would be no problem with LuaTeX and XeTeX. But this character would be difficult to obtain in pdfTeX even using inputenc with the utf8 option. Best regards, Juan Manuel