math in parentheses

math in parentheses

[Andreas Leha]

Hi,

I encounter a problem using $..$ expressions when they are enclosed
in parentheses.


This sample

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
#+TITLE: Test Math

* Some math
This $T$ works, but ($T$) this does not.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

exports to (relevant part)

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
\section{Some math}
\label{sec-1}
This \(T\) works, but (\$T\$) this does not.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---


Is that expected behaviour?


(Note that \(...\) expressions work.)


I am on
- OS X 10.9.4
- GNU Emacs 24.4.50.1
- Org-mode version 8.3beta


Regards,
Andreas

Re: math in parentheses

[Richard Lawrence]

Hi Andreas,

Andreas Leha <andreas.leha@med.uni-goettingen.de> writes:

> I encounter a problem using $..$ expressions when they are enclosed
> in parentheses.

> This $T$ works, but ($T$) this does not.
>
> Is that expected behaviour?
>
> (Note that \(...\) expressions work.)

Yes, that is the expected behavior.  Org is much pickier about when "$"
can be a math delimiter than "\( ... \)".  The reason is that "$" can
also be used as a regular symbol in Org documents; when it is, it should
be *not* be exported as a math delimiter to LaTeX, and distinguishing
non-math-delimiting from math-delimiting uses of "$" is not a trivial
matter.

Thus, when in doubt, use "\( ... \)".

Best,
Richard

Re: math in parentheses

[Andreas Leha]

Hi Richard,

Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu> writes:
> Hi Andreas,
>
> Andreas Leha <andreas.leha@med.uni-goettingen.de> writes:
>
>> I encounter a problem using $..$ expressions when they are enclosed
>> in parentheses.
>
>> This $T$ works, but ($T$) this does not.
>>
>> Is that expected behaviour?
>>
>> (Note that \(...\) expressions work.)
>
> Yes, that is the expected behavior.  Org is much pickier about when "$"
> can be a math delimiter than "\( ... \)".  The reason is that "$" can
> also be used as a regular symbol in Org documents; when it is, it should
> be *not* be exported as a math delimiter to LaTeX, and distinguishing
> non-math-delimiting from math-delimiting uses of "$" is not a trivial
> matter.
>
> Thus, when in doubt, use "\( ... \)".
>

Thanks for following that up.  I do use \(...\) when I encounter
problems with $...$ (which is a lot nicer to type and read).

I am happy with using the fall-back \(...\) every now and then.

Just for me to understand:  Is the problem the missing whitespace
around the $...$ expression?

Thanks,
Andreas

Re: math in parentheses

[Rasmus]

Hi,

Andreas Leha <andreas.leha@med.uni-goettingen.de> writes:

> Hi Richard,
> Just for me to understand:  Is the problem the missing whitespace
> around the $...$ expression?

From (info "(org) LaTeX Fragments")

     [a] single ‘$’ characters are only recognized as math delimiters
     if the enclosed text contains at most two line breaks, is
     directly attached to the ‘$’ characters with no whitespace in
     between, and if the closing ‘$’ is followed by whitespace,
     punctuation or a dash

—Rasmus

-- 
C is for Cookie

Re: math in parentheses

[Andreas Leha]

Hi Rasmus,

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
> Hi,
>
> Andreas Leha <andreas.leha@med.uni-goettingen.de> writes:
>
>> Hi Richard,
>> Just for me to understand:  Is the problem the missing whitespace
>> around the $...$ expression?
>
> From (info "(org) LaTeX Fragments")
>
>      [a] single ‘$’ characters are only recognized as math delimiters
>      if the enclosed text contains at most two line breaks, is
>      directly attached to the ‘$’ characters with no whitespace in
>      between, and if the closing ‘$’ is followed by whitespace,
>      punctuation or a dash
>

Thanks for the pointer.

Given that there are 'exceptions' already I'd like to see that last
sentence extended to 'followed by whitespace, punctuation, a closing
parenthesis or a dash'.

Especially since the \(...\) notation is particularly hard to read when
enclosed in parentheses.  For example (\(\frac{1}{2}\)) as opposed to 
($\frac{1}{2}$)

But as I said earlier, this is a minor nuisance and I am happy to resort
to \(...\) whenever necessary.

Thanks,
Andreas

Re: math in parentheses

[Rasmus]

Andreas Leha <andreas.leha@med.uni-goettingen.de> writes:

> Hi Rasmus,
>
> Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Andreas Leha <andreas.leha@med.uni-goettingen.de> writes:
>>
>>> Hi Richard,
>>> Just for me to understand:  Is the problem the missing whitespace
>>> around the $...$ expression?
>>
>> From (info "(org) LaTeX Fragments")
>>
>>      [a] single ‘$’ characters are only recognized as math delimiters
>>      if the enclosed text contains at most two line breaks, is
>>      directly attached to the ‘$’ characters with no whitespace in
>>      between, and if the closing ‘$’ is followed by whitespace,
>>      punctuation or a dash
>>
>
> Thanks for the pointer.
>
> Given that there are 'exceptions' already I'd like to see that last
> sentence extended to 'followed by whitespace, punctuation, a closing
> parenthesis or a dash'.

Patches welcome :)  but this does work $(x)$ BTW.

I guess the main function for export is
`org-element-latex-fragment-interpreter' but there's also
`org-inside-LaTeX-fragment-p'. . .

—Rasmus

-- 
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?

Re: math in parentheses

[Andreas Leha]

Hi Rasmus,

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
> Andreas Leha <andreas.leha@med.uni-goettingen.de> writes:
>
>> Hi Rasmus,
>>
>> Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Andreas Leha <andreas.leha@med.uni-goettingen.de> writes:
>>>
>>>> Hi Richard,
>>>> Just for me to understand:  Is the problem the missing whitespace
>>>> around the $...$ expression?
>>>
>>> From (info "(org) LaTeX Fragments")
>>>
>>>      [a] single ‘$’ characters are only recognized as math delimiters
>>>      if the enclosed text contains at most two line breaks, is
>>>      directly attached to the ‘$’ characters with no whitespace in
>>>      between, and if the closing ‘$’ is followed by whitespace,
>>>      punctuation or a dash
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for the pointer.
>>
>> Given that there are 'exceptions' already I'd like to see that last
>> sentence extended to 'followed by whitespace, punctuation, a closing
>> parenthesis or a dash'.
>
> Patches welcome :)  but this does work $(x)$ BTW.

Quite nice.  This had not occurred to me.

[...]

Thanks,
Andreas

Re: math in parentheses

[Nick Dokos]

Andreas Leha <andreas.leha@med.uni-goettingen.de> writes:

> Hi Richard,
>
> Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu> writes:
>> Hi Andreas,
>>
>> Andreas Leha <andreas.leha@med.uni-goettingen.de> writes:
>>
>>> I encounter a problem using $..$ expressions when they are enclosed
>>> in parentheses.
>>
>>> This $T$ works, but ($T$) this does not.
>>>
>>> Is that expected behaviour?
>>>
>>> (Note that \(...\) expressions work.)
>>
>> Yes, that is the expected behavior.  Org is much pickier about when "$"
>> can be a math delimiter than "\( ... \)".  The reason is that "$" can
>> also be used as a regular symbol in Org documents; when it is, it should
>> be *not* be exported as a math delimiter to LaTeX, and distinguishing
>> non-math-delimiting from math-delimiting uses of "$" is not a trivial
>> matter.
>>
>> Thus, when in doubt, use "\( ... \)".
>>
>
> Thanks for following that up.  I do use \(...\) when I encounter
> problems with $...$ (which is a lot nicer to type and read).
>
> I am happy with using the fall-back \(...\) every now and then.
>
> Just for me to understand:  Is the problem the missing whitespace
> around the $...$ expression?
>

See

   http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/510/are-and-preferable-to-dollar-signs-for-math-mode

for some arguments for and (mostly) against (although one of the "for"s
is Frank Mittelbach - which surely tilts the scale quite a lot). FWIW,
I've trained myself to use \(...\) and don't find it any harder to read
than $...$ - and I don't mind the extra typing either.  The fact that
both org and MathJax deal better with \(...\) just reinforces that
choice.

Nick

Re: math in parentheses

[Andreas Leha]

Hi Nick,

Nick Dokos <ndokos@gmail.com> writes:
> Andreas Leha <andreas.leha@med.uni-goettingen.de> writes:
>
>> Hi Richard,
>>
>> Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu> writes:
>>> Hi Andreas,
>>>
>>> Andreas Leha <andreas.leha@med.uni-goettingen.de> writes:
>>>
>>>> I encounter a problem using $..$ expressions when they are enclosed
>>>> in parentheses.
>>>
>>>> This $T$ works, but ($T$) this does not.
>>>>
>>>> Is that expected behaviour?
>>>>
>>>> (Note that \(...\) expressions work.)
>>>
>>> Yes, that is the expected behavior.  Org is much pickier about when "$"
>>> can be a math delimiter than "\( ... \)".  The reason is that "$" can
>>> also be used as a regular symbol in Org documents; when it is, it should
>>> be *not* be exported as a math delimiter to LaTeX, and distinguishing
>>> non-math-delimiting from math-delimiting uses of "$" is not a trivial
>>> matter.
>>>
>>> Thus, when in doubt, use "\( ... \)".
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for following that up.  I do use \(...\) when I encounter
>> problems with $...$ (which is a lot nicer to type and read).
>>
>> I am happy with using the fall-back \(...\) every now and then.
>>
>> Just for me to understand:  Is the problem the missing whitespace
>> around the $...$ expression?
>>
>
> See
>
>    http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/510/are-and-preferable-to-dollar-signs-for-math-mode
>
> for some arguments for and (mostly) against (although one of the "for"s
> is Frank Mittelbach - which surely tilts the scale quite a lot).

Thanks.  A very good read.  These are arguments on the LaTeX end.  My
question was more on the orgmode end, I guess.

> FWIW,
> I've trained myself to use \(...\) and don't find it any harder to read
> than $...$ - and I don't mind the extra typing either.  The fact that
> both org and MathJax deal better with \(...\) just reinforces that
> choice.

I do not agree with the readability but I can live (quite happily) with
using \(...\).  And maybe my perception of the readability changes over
time....

Regards,
Andreas

Re: math in parentheses

[Rasmus]

Hi,

Nick Dokos <ndokos@gmail.com> writes:

> See
>
>    http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/510/are-and-preferable-to-dollar-signs-for-math-mode
>
> for some arguments for and (mostly) against (although one of the "for"s
> is Frank Mittelbach - which surely tilts the scale quite a lot). FWIW,
> I've trained myself to use \(...\) and don't find it any harder to read
> than $...$ - and I don't mind the extra typing either.  The fact that
> both org and MathJax deal better with \(...\) just reinforces that
> choice.

Note that,

(with-temp-buffer (insert "$x$") (require 'ox-latex)
		  (org-latex-export-as-latex nil nil nil t)) => \(x\)

Just out of curiosity, do you actually type \(·\) or have you somehow
remapped $·$ to insert \(·\)?

For me the biggest inconvenience of \(·\) is that it's tedious to
type.  On my keyboard, M-< S-8 M-< gives me \(\), compare to M-4 M-4
(which I could probably limit to M-4 with electric-pair-mode).  Thus,
I use $·$ by default.

I usually just rely on whether my expression get the colored by
org-latex-and-related.  In most cases that's a good indicator, but it
does not work with ($x$).

—Rasmus

-- 
With monopolies the cake is a lie!

Re: math in parentheses

[Nick Dokos]

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

> Just out of curiosity, do you actually type \(·\) or have you somehow
> remapped $·$ to insert \(·\)?
>

I type \(...\) - I don't do it often enough to worry about it.

-- 
Nick

Re: math in parentheses

[Eric S Fraga]

On Wednesday, 29 Oct 2014 at 13:24, Rasmus wrote:

[...]

> Just out of curiosity, do you actually type \(·\) or have you somehow
> remapped $·$ to insert \(·\)?

I have been using the following for quite some time:  

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
  ;; from Nicolas Richard <theonewiththeevillook@yahoo.fr>
  ;; Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 16:23:02 +0100
  ;; Message-ID: <87vc913oh5.fsf@yahoo.fr>
  (defun yf/org-electric-dollar nil
  "When called once, insert \\(\\) and leave point in between.
  When called twice, replace the previously inserted \\(\\) by one $."
    (interactive)
    (if (and (looking-at "\\\\)") (looking-back "\\\\("))
        (progn (delete-char 2)
               (delete-char -2)
               (insert "$"))
      (insert "\\(\\)")
      (backward-char 2)))
  (define-key org-mode-map (kbd "$") 'yf/org-electric-dollar)
#+end_src

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (0xFFFCF67D), Emacs 24.3.1, Org release_8.3beta-372-gdd70cf