From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id 34SQEd8N5GHRGQEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:21:51 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id QFYRDd8N5GGHbgEAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:21:51 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4B79176F3 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:21:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:50892 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n94Xd-0000Fk-EW for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2022 07:21:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42854) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n94Wq-0000FC-9m for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2022 07:21:00 -0500 Received: from mail-eopbgr60094.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([40.107.6.94]:57924 helo=EUR04-DB3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n94Wn-0005zJ-DJ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jan 2022 07:20:59 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=WOH/4RRq+goqGoD0dnnJwP5GuSlXFZu+sKTz2fIMPzT3Jaib9tCP1CvOUkgfOBYo5WMbxv9PS/jaIrDImcCvCUAGS2XpB/Yuv/r4G/2gdZejYMmkpHHRQUtpXPH5NbkHYxjDorvi6vzr8RV9ZrA1QLgEhHZ/ULTes0Bji83/nBTraHk/uU+/NtgItIus4u8zWvroAQldbS6xograq+9sZi/mdUrUqYSGLXn0xkMXaKVKscvkTou32/rCD5L45bf6PmJW5OulgmxViJs632HzdJXdAB1a5mC/U7B34b+X8FEROmdaww8cYIiVsFb88bvIbkSNB8/7+NyHy1NqKq0mqw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=zEkMaf4FtE+iGDhFiRjW01WljeS+QsiHsFeM4luvvrw=; b=IMsjkwKMNt3NsGUpCCHGeNu72M4P3jmaWE5eRIBwVzi+l7xpxkWySWOKYIIbeegFSBuszTbiCATm34tzfpbK4P9DpGqtoVRnpwvciymya5DxfQKxHvg2pt4guDWwHKsRnOTA4ikbqXoQNj1jAb+m4SPuJ4XIzsHq40PR8cMEkuCRxQPFgrN/YkC4VC0KIj8GFgMkijFWcdL6MpCgT1qrY0n8kDSYqj6TEOCZoxLum6RfWvYErDDvedJkYRp/sJHT7i9r/PzP6R7CWeV7PO1yk4Kfrp0L4G7MqDOH1ILBkbP9SiL9IOGYbmNQMXG52KGRNO4Owo3uyzHEOYh1+WYkhw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ucl.ac.uk; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ucl.ac.uk; dkim=pass header.d=ucl.ac.uk; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ucl.ac.uk; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=zEkMaf4FtE+iGDhFiRjW01WljeS+QsiHsFeM4luvvrw=; b=JuW3ZkBfw6aA+5hrRNfs8JYMk6552OjhgQ4MrR/KPfkqILJnFJBMwAcKPc/fxFyResFcVdPX8XJLp8rVfgM1eoANN0glQFjLQPbLHqNmIaoB8FeVdZCLTMznGTxEKjlBk08yoeTHRC2JDoptiwVmEqpeHHh44RhP34sNCeTr2jQ= Received: from PAXPR01MB8439.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:10a6:102:220::13) by AM0PR0102MB3329.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:10a6:208:26::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4888.11; Sun, 16 Jan 2022 12:00:22 +0000 Received: from PAXPR01MB8439.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([fe80::7df7:eb08:a92a:7dbb]) by PAXPR01MB8439.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([fe80::7df7:eb08:a92a:7dbb%3]) with mapi id 15.20.4888.012; Sun, 16 Jan 2022 12:00:21 +0000 From: Eric S Fraga To: autofrettage Subject: Re: Playing down the text in org-mode Organization: On the Interweb somewhere References: X-Url: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucecesf/ Mail-Followup-To: Org Mode List Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 12:00:13 +0000 In-Reply-To: (autofrettage@protonmail.ch's message of "Fri, 14 Jan 2022 19:26:51 +0000") Message-ID: <87o84bdh6a.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Content-Type: text/plain X-ClientProxiedBy: LO3P123CA0009.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:ba::14) To PAXPR01MB8439.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:10a6:102:220::13) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: c6c71efe-e55e-40a8-b383-08d9d8e7c5a3 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM0PR0102MB3329:EE_ X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:8273; X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:PAXPR01MB8439.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(366004)(8676002)(38350700002)(38100700002)(86362001)(6916009)(786003)(316002)(66476007)(4744005)(186003)(6506007)(66556008)(8936002)(6666004)(2616005)(26005)(36916002)(4326008)(52116002)(36756003)(2906002)(5660300002)(6512007)(6486002)(66946007)(508600001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: =?us-ascii?Q?hndD3pxy9g5JKZSKHJeWmqh3EPOqoh6DbhNlEIM5YQd+XcyuPRTyHDDKWQ8r?= =?us-ascii?Q?RT5mWi81CTSCVDTqD84L71DKsjqOVzyv3Jr3knPz1Egg3wFvX+lupLyMBtEW?= =?us-ascii?Q?G7v+tsF52PQ5q2NL7giVqXjzAuaHGtitoJSdxX7AHUNo4/wSK12jBHg68Dvu?= =?us-ascii?Q?SjLfqqkRDVErPsuXi8fBmWURudUXTkGh+3MRl+JdqWz3FJQEZd5TmA9iLo0x?= =?us-ascii?Q?+VtYJCceJYLK0+giLpFwt9wnlgTmeyD1AwpBMXOOg7KsuTMV+5W/oZBh62qp?= =?us-ascii?Q?bgli69z6YoILRJ+25IvY6ISiyhCIkjDBCj2dPR/X5bxnxJRycLDZJXuc9hML?= =?us-ascii?Q?mq7uui55mCqXMIQeQRO94U4YC5kxd5muRkSa0CR7jrkHZn4HHLkV4CGW4Eqg?= =?us-ascii?Q?RoNU1yYS186Pti5fNUqf80ZCwWcCHfLYM1Mdp+k7R1O4scYUTQCA1aCawWAL?= =?us-ascii?Q?DVZm+TODsUAIPHHGAdmiWp9QlAxBAiis0Ahlvd8uLjO0SnY3RpAtDoCi6TSa?= =?us-ascii?Q?KGROIGRlR5nFfFPuuPC776jb4XUC2FsdGIOw0QWY4EqTFFr/sRpcTMFqacah?= =?us-ascii?Q?gkFGZAqE5XBgNdOdw8SK6utzQ0e+8v7ajKLt+GS3aBo3DJj6joHLefPnoKrp?= =?us-ascii?Q?92ABaiZeZoojzhG0horHgx+iLpCv+e9SrRarXg37gmfC2kRQ+T3UGmEdQpYg?= =?us-ascii?Q?lg3QnG5hFljtz4JbkUNjgBrlOBmP/axad427yKYIF4CCveeBX5csA+g1Ex45?= =?us-ascii?Q?ipnANZu+MREcXAZ24AV57esCGXv6T3FZD+3nleYHhjfhX02j+897By9O6tdq?= =?us-ascii?Q?O2wyRDJCkZdbXeYaWiO/UE0k6Bz+Z23GHcEgU4Y4a/47dFjVNFFDRhKQ3hnZ?= =?us-ascii?Q?4E9Wm1pZ+HnKr4KPpCkWXTLXLl88ZpR+r48Xe6G5vl0RlcwOG0yrm3FztvNx?= =?us-ascii?Q?9Ya4L9wkGAQHVq5kZEEeTIOa2OpYWMvpIEynv7RVvx0qzQI3sfnlotEI79FQ?= =?us-ascii?Q?D0ZMM3lwpKSu606vaa5OvdWXxvWvGz3T09dFDZ65/lvffrczZ6HoRVyelcZ8?= =?us-ascii?Q?rleRXaEIV1XNn3E2+lksKcL16YCLdstQ0Wvq9X9LTVb6903koRKWFYiGEu0J?= =?us-ascii?Q?GzXJspNAGVKxGGQNO4S9lYICxNtWXQsCdh+fZmzWt6iUzG3ApriYujxq+Ke2?= =?us-ascii?Q?qtg9b7AXDKrEAnkY6dLHkpuRjKhWSfxl4hXrTWOqeM5jGnrn7els8j0jaeR2?= =?us-ascii?Q?Fsbe1Iz48BCZTyvQUNXLCSbKOhB8RqfpzCSWYRZPMihNitppzWElNThqYvs1?= =?us-ascii?Q?4uTvUcH3MHnQB82YIh7x27rdMoh5AJOC2NBfWwiQXcoNAHjxb8r0UCZv4qCo?= =?us-ascii?Q?RxatRK+31C65GM6qfD1/ZNODnxZx1CGYd8TUqjDHlmlgMQ8USuAvsO2fe+R1?= =?us-ascii?Q?7qbRZO02HotfjVzdd1qx4g75arw0MCnEq05k5rkp70angCnbrTPAls5ANDGN?= =?us-ascii?Q?/pXcd+2/Bhcce2FP6cTuvI37bmW0pEoU2Si07DWPNf6otkiio9Vv+24EnnhM?= =?us-ascii?Q?n625Z6CVdodeEjZexkEOYPgmkKJmHNsu2flbMULbtLMNcisT8YsrFixZhQ4g?= =?us-ascii?Q?xWy50OeAV89YNUId1IDRXCs=3D?= X-OriginatorOrg: ucl.ac.uk X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c6c71efe-e55e-40a8-b383-08d9d8e7c5a3 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: PAXPR01MB8439.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Jan 2022 12:00:21.9050 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 1faf88fe-a998-4c5b-93c9-210a11d9a5c2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: uC8QiuCFdzemocfGubG582yZ0gKx/6YuqE2Fx0DTTGOBo9tuGpyry/mSwP50NoayVbYOKtNzkbhfWoqlSxnlWw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR0102MB3329 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=40.107.6.94; envelope-from=e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk; helo=EUR04-DB3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1642335710; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=zEkMaf4FtE+iGDhFiRjW01WljeS+QsiHsFeM4luvvrw=; b=oLQWWZVBR2/uSHybZE0Aen6CUyQ3YBZ2oJJTgoKqctxT13IIXivHNLmRyxiD+qlwTCUb/y 6wSvNhaIt4djLKcsaft1qpRk7CxKvXSp7HB7bbpjH7CmnmPZEkkbGv/Vzll2GNlGrHaFgb H7JO9liT1BqbJQ9zwNBlTTdaIz7vunGNGeRVp9aVk/1WZReqzd8IQefwClvzT+asApzSht S3IIDuYnYyUaA2w4u3IjdxFH1X116WcofiMZIJlaBc8FIhcLzlntJ1VrtfgtS46IDurJQn yC0RV6oWvgEtBJ+JTdRavA4V2f1WxoP8b8TV7AppTKQRSkWdHW6qvl6ABoicYA== ARC-Seal: i=2; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1642335710; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; b=p9QvqnwK5lsPMq7ZR4B/nF7FoRd0QWWWzSCOKl6gctnRxuVTdmaaEP1j+ZpmCF3IyfQKjy z4UEAF470FxvHxiiNwsalHGaJc5oIQ62okgJnPeWHlUBY4Uz1dk+sg7FFB+09zAK9rbR38 2p3orbRKGm4ITiQLnqz7RJu/DTF38egkg6AEU3K2L+sShl1FdNfmZBZaCl1hZWLxiDoIZr vtbp18Y6CzH1LCmR2hlm2LtgTskinWW0gHLHFymiIcjJ/07enqRDKiuAWvcZ0AqWQ6L9Uz PnvGY2Cx2oAH5HLv5bQtG99jo0ndRKtixxhNbZPRsu/F/iZ0hc5GU0gkw9nehQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=ucl.ac.uk header.s=selector1 header.b=JuW3ZkBf; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1"); dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=ucl.ac.uk; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -7.82 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=ucl.ac.uk header.s=selector1 header.b=JuW3ZkBf; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1"); dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=ucl.ac.uk; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B4B79176F3 X-Spam-Score: -7.82 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: mUkBEPndtQ9h On Friday, 14 Jan 2022 at 19:26, autofrettage wrote: > The question triggers an old LaTeX reflex; If the layout tweak or > typography tune turns out to be very difficult to accomplish with > LaTeX (including all the mainstream add-ons), then the reason could be > that you ask for something which most typographers consider to be a > really bad idea. +1 This is something I often have to drum into my students. If you are fighting LaTeX, you are probably trying to do something that won't actually look very good at all. The problem is that students have been exposed to Word & co. without using styles, for instance, and think that they have to specify everything including typefaces, spacing, indents, ... and, of course, they know noting about typography. LaTeX (and org by corollary) does a very good job with the defaults (including, as you say, the mainstream add-ons). -- : Eric S Fraga, with org release_9.5.2-306-g9623da in Emacs 29.0.50