From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id YPzdLjBtZmCMZAAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 02 Apr 2021 03:02:40 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id eMC3KDBtZmDmGAAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 02 Apr 2021 01:02:40 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1143F18124 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 2021 03:02:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:45398 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lS8Cs-0007LU-Vv for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2021 21:02:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52078) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lS8CF-0007LA-BM for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2021 21:01:59 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-x636.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::636]:35454) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lS8CD-0006L4-Jk for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2021 21:01:59 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-x636.google.com with SMTP id e14so1847732plj.2 for ; Thu, 01 Apr 2021 18:01:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=references:user-agent:from:to:subject:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version; bh=mDyyNAmyWb64jimMYlxwHtRd5mlZ16/RH68xeYgQ2aM=; b=NCOvpJ3LDNPnUmIq1sZHxGPGcWc/DJu5yCbeSqohbewy/U9uGGePCVnMDtSp/pbzFY g7vuumP0CwM5JMxRU5Wpt8LESpFaUt46rveaBe7+QmZAEsn+AeLJM3/eM2RJ0/NORqdz FcqbtvlD2+1EtvKj8NU5MVs25b490PPMfKsUA1l0PsgOjwoBaJrrBNxVMxw7iZgRR2Qs WI7YC/xKlz/kui0OW333XQn6RelY7AZt8AXMU+00Efer8inync5loE7he4aKFVCCbP+1 lgyhhgeoz1PoIvOSBFLdSPUwF4TEsnF/3NO8wvs93N1UHOw+ZI7spvb23Jh+eBm/S0yO pU1w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:subject:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=mDyyNAmyWb64jimMYlxwHtRd5mlZ16/RH68xeYgQ2aM=; b=Cviu5xLNbskrW5Vp0oJ0qzYxT31g+ZuKHHQVCHWbUa0yQY29rCOZGGY+91QYKjYe1a aMcierexjnlrfA8IwHNXDOBUN8/v3pSfhEz/V3iOFvmJbL2W4V8tnChVHLB+AKJik6ns X1gspp3L9QVTjhlO3l29m0ST/mbXBLelRmzHKxb9C0d5JnJv1uxW4uEqBUVlCxQq4Rbs lYbrRBwZWk3wmVBUVqq9d24qvxATG5QPkT9IJDMdDQ7aAH5Wx+/zAK+OHfQSUPUQkgdg Zz2VeADmngIgZtlitFmf9YSA+zIfacetcjA40q4lQOTTOdXttcxq0gyME2plKUsj00au /dvA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530mt2FUKXdf7SinROcrtW94EcJwGarIDu11KsQsZhUaF2n30ri3 0bG0qjj9xAZC15SFgUCjWzSTu3G+kp0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxrIwZaEMsONfuwopgFMLbR8RKq/Kmj52+98L8RRPh/wXeMUfGEECWVMJ90iLBU/10n9x0pSA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:d78a:b029:e4:b5ee:c719 with SMTP id z10-20020a170902d78ab02900e4b5eec719mr10335254ply.83.1617325311816; Thu, 01 Apr 2021 18:01:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tim-desktop (106-69-151-71.dyn.iinet.net.au. [106.69.151.71]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k15sm6747970pfi.0.2021.04.01.18.01.50 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 01 Apr 2021 18:01:51 -0700 (PDT) References: <87pmzedjfr.fsf@gmail.com> <87v995h9uh.fsf@gmail.com> <87lfa1k299.fsf@fastmail.fm> User-agent: mu4e 1.5.11; emacs 28.0.50 From: Tim Cross To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Using backticks for the inline code delimeter? Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2021 11:28:28 +1100 In-reply-to: <87lfa1k299.fsf@fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <87mtuhh537.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::636; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x636.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1617325360; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=mDyyNAmyWb64jimMYlxwHtRd5mlZ16/RH68xeYgQ2aM=; b=mL0iPbVUNwmXHwGyVG/nYDV5WTkEmKLnE5ekaZVN2J5Me7HlzyaXT9Ytb9H2QvPv37tfgu s2PqTy7WuS+TpVJOCLkZBVYh+o+P4QtdhBGGoU5wzt5q/N+ZuwIbE8M/4n7UBgilcxboeB qmMRAiVXaYXu8Kp08sJXQMB+FzuwfgdY43pFLK9wdk4SEdJ+yBhCwsTelpBDjK4479SMk4 VYcDB4Wz//U5MefmlXbaLVVBwKsyyUfP3/yKBCw3a3EYT6aZTHNRweDkCnB4Q+Pt0RwZCo L8VFEbUuqcErvoRaKlFjoci4gH8mC02zgRvSSoyNFUqspip670nrVaLUm1VR1A== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1617325360; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=n9+oDdeqncG44p1mw5hn8VLzS9nxi53C2xrU6DkFBTX5geNS/NBeIzZQuqXM5Ss2SxO/If dTPl1xnw2kVksCMaO0Zo4hTAjLIQF8QQ2GLuCn5myiXpbZtLtWosFZDoOzxS9bGlPJlC4f 1J2918JEQV0uWOpI/5ovE9HilduqgX54aGWzaxJXtsQurOiq0/fNNsTrFgvUwehR2PAMCI o/GZnoiU5TffQtHAaTKyVrX91uwtMluzX0pxc6VoWBMDrMQHWqo5AZRWqcE4A0byr3TtVs AWAI1oq9zdakKNlm43mV9xAXycBuMCa8RxIKG8Nu9WSUtrTv2IaDm4liiKt4Kg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=NCOvpJ3L; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.13 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=NCOvpJ3L; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 1143F18124 X-Spam-Score: -2.13 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 773dMkDQ8Ysw Joost Kremers writes: > On Fri, Apr 02 2021, Tim Cross wrote: >> Getting backticks to font-lock correctly is relatively easy. Getting the >> exporters to understand the new syntax is more of a challenge > > Don't the exporters work off of some intermediate representation, like Pandoc > does? I kinda thought that was what `org-element.el` was all about... > > And of course I meant to type ~org-element.el~ there... :D Yes, at least most of the core ones should. However, I would still expect some surprises and of course there are no guarantees regarding the contrib and other external ones. Despite attempts to abstract the syntax to make it 'flexible', I would be surprised if there is not functionality in some of the exporters which has implicit assumptions regarding the syntax being used and is not isolated from such changes. Note that I'm not saying this cannot be done or even that is should not be done. I just want to highlight that just making changes to how org deals with it at the 'presentation' layer may not be sufficient and that you would have to verify there are no unexpected side effects in any of the exporters. If you wanted to keep backwards compatibility or make using ` and alternative to ~, you would also need to decide/verify things like `word~ (i.e. mixed delimiters) are handled correctly (i.e. simple regex with alternatives would not be sufficient - would need to be a match which allowed both but ensured matching values). Of course, there is a big difference between making a change to org and making a change to an individual's own org instance. So if we are talking about how someone can hack their own org instance to use ` instead of ~, it can be much simpler as they don't have to worry about the bits they don't use or backwards compatibility. The downside then becomes just the hassle of maintaining your hacks over subsequent org releases. One reason why I would probbly go with a method which just changes how I input data. For example, I would define a function which inserts ~ or if a region is marked, surrounds it in ~ and then just bind that to a key, never using ~ or ` directly to mark text. -- Tim Cross