From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id SOYYGFZAsV9rdQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 14:51:02 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id uOngE1ZAsV9FRgAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 14:51:02 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B65049401D0 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 14:51:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:41536 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1keJMq-0007Kv-Nt for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 09:51:00 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58782) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1keJMO-0007J2-HQ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 09:50:34 -0500 Received: from mail-pj1-x1034.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::1034]:54426) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1keJML-00069G-Ft for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 09:50:31 -0500 Received: by mail-pj1-x1034.google.com with SMTP id f12so2613549pjp.4 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 06:50:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to :message-id:date:mime-version; bh=7m7AngQ7+U1oCV2iCFrDsG/rXskRxwIib3H3HaHTa4I=; b=LuNPTIJEp6wsoIkPIePdHUzp8t1DOJVUiwtLctze8MnvEdK4SitveSIo955VdTEklk wGYGagAKpraErUIrhKCVdola41lAx7QX6X90kf1HrP1RkHCX/HRamaqdKWrZ91e5IVoX A+wvL33nWL5ff+qbcwxbf/o7lRUllERfvjh16jIj1Crvh1A6B0AKpNHm4vDxoxwDQFos LHtOdJFIoSm7l2VfqpLAHiK6072p8A0UNXRIKvcsP/WumIMIkPyfBKB6UEit5P+HX0P9 fCevRVcCMjbHyOrZ1kI+aXpUrcp5fwKSLREurRZtkhb4XzMMxFFw7MC9+D2zFyyt6udU tc9Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:message-id:date:mime-version; bh=7m7AngQ7+U1oCV2iCFrDsG/rXskRxwIib3H3HaHTa4I=; b=eEnIDVSehjRnFpv5o+VZ/d4Avo54idNAhn/Wfprzi/9bvcszLTQXsS7SGc9EU3t7DE gXGscruyt0ZAk/O6o6rlcY5yBZKvSGoDgwl9k0IT5ADcM6er4frijfyshccP5iGE3SBP fNmBZkZhkyWqeWW31VP+PjvkyrLWPZiP/4UpXG18k8CpFECLwQi6tJIyJp32Ik/MGOv0 nlHOLyIXjhfW3IkyRfvaRH6RTE9CuNSKOS9FnJMbkrLF0pxwr72o/O0aOo1akg1QwFHz EHFOw2c/MYQMBfkqv+FRGDNsFEDI9fGVAFXGjzbAPyhPFgtYGjiHsz9q6Q3uR/CVDtvS 5cNw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5325kaSDtbS87XoyOQqXsyoS67suJcDPUxzV2rouN6vznZKKODBB 6tydMmeRtt/Zk8YtCKe++x8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwbXeYMq03NA508k7z1U2HX+SzM5ZFR3FDZREhIxpQQv4fv9BXtVU8nJy3QvgUxiVqNNYLuxA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:eb02:: with SMTP id j2mr11391770pjz.136.1605451826855; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 06:50:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from gusbrs-laptop ([199.116.118.169]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p19sm15438662pjv.32.2020.11.15.06.50.23 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 15 Nov 2020 06:50:25 -0800 (PST) References: <665024.1605436621@apollo2.minshall.org> <87y2j2u9g7.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.4.13; emacs 27.1 From: Gustavo Barros To: Jean Louis Subject: Re: Changed list indentation behavior: how to revert? In-reply-to: Message-ID: <87lff2d68j.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 11:50:20 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1034; envelope-from=gusbrs.2016@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1034.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Greg Minshall , David Rogers , Karl Voit , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Karl Voit Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail (headers rsa verify failed) header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=LuNPTIJE; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 1.09 X-TUID: apdseTeeS3EM Hi Jean, On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 at 09:09, Jean Louis wrote: > > That is useful. > I'm glad to hear that. > >> You (plural) could probably also get some juice from looking into, >> and >> incorporating to muscle memory, `M-RET', `C-RET' and `C-j'. > > I do, thank you for reminder. Us in plural are sometimes teachers or > mentors who educate other people who are supposed to edit Org files in > most simple manner, and those people will never be able to write to > this list to find out which option where, not even to know about > indentation things. When default is introduced then all people > following an educator has to turn off default. They will not even know > why. One default introduced can cause butterfly effect. > Also a fellow teacher here. As you, I'm trying to transmit this information to you and others, because I find it useful. Nobody needs to use `M-RET', `C-RET' and `C-j'. > General design of user interface should not conquer their habits > unless substantial amount of users have demanded it so. > And how exactly would maintainers know that? Do you claim to be speaking on their (substantial amount of users) behalf? > > For me is now better to simple adjust: org-indent-region variable just > as you said. > Please, don't confuse. I said you should *not* use (the command) `org-indent-region' if you were systematically manually overriding indentation defaults. I recommended to set the user option `org-adapt-indentation' to nil, which seems to be the desired value for most of the manifestations on this thread. Best regards, Gustavo.