From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id EMt4H0VZ2l9zQAAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 19:00:21 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id QNuYGUVZ2l+cFQAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 19:00:21 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0953940480 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 19:00:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:53376 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpc27-0006LS-Af for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 14:00:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43258) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpc1B-0006K7-80 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:59:21 -0500 Received: from mail-pj1-x102a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::102a]:51436) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpc15-0006Ej-23; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:59:20 -0500 Received: by mail-pj1-x102a.google.com with SMTP id z12so1994668pjn.1; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 10:59:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hKm4kP21H+0d8pH1Bia5DTOpEIq2B0vUJp41P7rzBmA=; b=CscC04XSwT1Saz7ksdqLs+ICtaz4d/0YuUCytJLHf/8oa22tdnA3oQ7yTAzMkNe3fh KMOr31hjmm3cCuNPBB1qZgnMJ+KEQ494w+XFAIpFFJn4CZ6ksHPGXrcorm4G9Ng+42Cv 5TswBScmL3E8iFeJ2aKkH16GHPXmDgQ3P3YeKxtwAfFRLe42mwz7wkYN9zeLidkx9yd0 V1cuFmyhwhZSf85gpo7k4/9JwepW1GJ2+aTanVQB/7KDwGKaxxPjItsjAeutz2ulVJTL fNOJOCsTkQYBMXlKJQA7gzLbq00ndCNCvX7gHUm5of+Wl0xz8dXC5/kreqvh1SMkqe5t 9exw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hKm4kP21H+0d8pH1Bia5DTOpEIq2B0vUJp41P7rzBmA=; b=JYnE7IkkzTSTd6HjUGpvh4JdFNMY4+yBkKaeIEqfK2bTYDD2NmlIsgTGNd6hLi55TS MCNgY9VEg/9BQ6/Rf1tNyhwM7Xzcf1CRQvYF7ETLVOakTMtqmuIjj5x0ZGNXUYsbD6wQ di5YDjE33IJhiYnJ3XTyOLwVVgMOPAKiXsONHFTwUx+NEKcx30urwB15Orotzm00ZcG+ Hxk0oQszLoLND5mJe1cjciwl2vVmhIPE508ACEoJsKkMcXM5GNIgTjkoUWc3GEiJXeiS 4B0hpRugcd8SvCBolDBW25Te36aoc5E1ZNSdj5dQo1K6EazxOuaKf684IuQpqWc9zRhR Bddw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533hHUPCk38ErNCuYY4vC//bttOSRA8yCmr8g9P9Dry23HLoM7gq 6LK3nyJvxmkr0nKjBI2b+4YkBDAmLZrcYd3N X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzocC/aB3sPqxvfnRX9rmJfNGD17+AdVwFGjApI6HWATsR8XdoKV779qEs3zYTLj8TicCiFDQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:523:b029:dc:1aa4:28e7 with SMTP id 32-20020a1709020523b02900dc1aa428e7mr2882014plf.4.1608145153050; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 10:59:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from tim-desktop (220-235-12-29.dyn.iinet.net.au. [220.235.12.29]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m14sm3515084pgu.0.2020.12.16.10.59.10 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 16 Dec 2020 10:59:12 -0800 (PST) References: <87h7ooeumg.fsf@gnu.org> <87o8iwxyud.fsf@codeisgreat.org> <873608o4h8.fsf@bzg.fr> <87h7ooxvn2.fsf@codeisgreat.org> <87sg87paed.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <873607yxvh.fsf@codeisgreat.org> <871rfr2ll2.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnxiv1te.fsf@codeisgreat.org> <87czzajms2.fsf@bzg.fr> <87lfdydxmr.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.5.7; emacs 27.1.50 From: Tim Cross To: Gustav =?utf-8?Q?Wikstr=C3=B6m?= Subject: Re: Release Org 9.4.2 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 05:41:58 +1100 In-reply-to: Message-ID: <87lfdxlgqs.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102a; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x102a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Bastien , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Pankaj Jangid , TEC Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.21 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail (headers rsa verify failed) header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=CscC04XS; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C0953940480 X-Spam-Score: -1.21 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: Wl3eH+Cn+nbW Gustav Wikstr=C3=B6m writes: >> From: Emacs-orgmode on = behalf of TEC >> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 08:14 >> To: Bastien >> Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Pankaj Jangid >> Subject: Re: Release Org 9.4.2 >> >> ... >> >> I actually have a few thoughts on this. I'm afraid that I don't think >> Org/Emacs are doing a good job of being accessible to younger >> individuals who have never used a ML / sent patches before (I should >> know, I'm one such individual, and the lack of familiarity was a >> significant deterrent). Whether a ML is a more efficient way of doing >> things or not ultimately doesn't matter in this regard, because it's >> simply not something I or many others are used to. >> >> Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for getting rid of the ML and >> jumping on GitHub etc. :P > > But to be fair, the collaboration features of GitHub surely would be a > BIG net positive if the goal is to attract contributions and gain a > bigger mindshare. That together with an open collective funding model > of some sort. Because let's be fair. This is a hobby project and it > would be cool if it could be something else at least for someone! > Github is not an option here. The problem is, github encourages the use of proprietary, non-free software, which conflicts with the GNU's primary goal of software freedom. As Org mode is a GNU project, it cannot use Github in any fashion which would encourage the use of github interfaces that require/encourage the use of non-free software, which unfortunately, key parts of their web UI does. With respect to providing a different forum which might e more familiar or more comfortable to younger users who are not as comfortable with a mailing list, I don't know what the answer is. By definition, being an old user who is out of step with the trends of the young, I an other old timers probably don't have the necessary familiarity with modern trends to do anything here. If young users need/want a different forum, they need to take on the responsibility for that initiative. The only restriction is that the forum must fit with the philosophy and guidelines of the FSF with respect to free (libre) software and not just 'open source'. Personally, I think on-line communities went backwards after the decline of USERNET newsgroups. -- Tim Cross