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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1638716062; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=TOId7xN3++qXKjeCgpk24iM3ueiDfcoPqU84o6KtWYw=; b=eGEedKeqFMIpMRXiFjr9KsSZgbFzfA67fGhFcOuEg437mwX0LTo4OwHde7cryTzq6W+gKG DpIB8eIQWRc3CaZnehYei7K+vGMR+YQOVrKOTch6tXwIURJwb2XnCqN5SPKInIWINq0NRz ufmOMjSjJSUjHMkZu5TLAYLiws8bEO99C7DRPBbYyXBsV0S/apYIUR+CJkvuikKjxhVEjw cvh0f56jskvqbzE69MJDJ7cYWRKSpTSc0fFmY9iiyc5FAL2w5rwAMyK79Wg2peW1shRLtD rSCKCd/hD/x0nkhvwVqJxW0uwLOYzuBMcbqEmOwHjTU1F/IkdqLxhoiZ4IaI7A== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1638716062; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=CQsnYSSruwLpIXGIYwT30dDtcbDm7GNygrqyaak9SHTr26EZLZQRAMJMr61ROZpMALKImL cOj0CwgCqH9Vi0TlY+JX++Nxwu6Rg8WicPl3iYdp8QO89839CMFsaXkDg8zlMnJ68jRKT5 OJOaPTPojqhnD6tap5qEJKGSdduXBMt/XGPdy7eWrHZvpMJo/n0f2o8/h0RIWGKu2XAlUp JncJ9nFUgkNv3/RaQv7Irh7bSspzhdCgZh17iBp/8xWmsJWXr3cEhBfxs9BFmtVFTgFzl+ muVd0uh/BJMv1UHE1FuGx1WVnY+kIedxBDOD1NimzbOGbgtXPPjsLk6t4MOc+w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Yii8syD+; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.64 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Yii8syD+; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 4B2C829C03 X-Spam-Score: -3.64 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: M7U1nlHckY8p Tim Cross writes: > - The suggested org mode in a browser example is unlikely to be > acceptable to the FSF (or RMS). The FSF is very much against cloud > based computing services or any web service which uses non-free > Javascript (which is most of them and one of the many reasons Github > is discouraged by the FSF). You are not right. I am well aware about the freedom of computation and proposed organise because it is not actually cloud-based. Organise is a frontend. It is licensed under AGPL. AGPL is recommended by FSF for network software. > A number of the ideas proposed are good ideas for org mode generally - > for example, a repository of reference documents which could be used for > testing purposes would be extremely useful for org-mode development and > testing. Likewise, any effort to clarify the syntax and remove any > ambiguities is beneficial for org mode itself. However, the emphasis and > priority needs to remain focused on org mode as a mode for Emacs. The > use of org mode by other external programs is really outside (but > related) to the project. May you clarify which one of the proposed changes has insufficient emphasis on org mode for Emacs? If you have concrete ideas for improvement, feel free to propose them. > As a consequence and to eliminate/remove potential conflicts with FSF > philosophy and goals, it may be worth considering spinning off a > separate project. which happens to use the same markup syntax, but is > not a GNU project (though it would be good to still be GPL'd). I think that's what Karl proposed? I created this thread with specific purpose to adapt his ideas to Org mode as a free software under FSF. > If you want ot get a feel for the sort of issues which could come up > when trying to develop/support 3rd party tools, have a look at the > recent thread on creating an LSP server for emacs-lisp. While I > personally disagree with most of the fears raised by some contributors > to that thread and disagree with RMS's view that such a server would not > be in the best interests of Emacs, the thread does give you a sample of > the sort of issues which could come up with efforts to support or > encourage 3rd party libraries for org markup, much of which could be > avoided if the work is clearly not part of, related to or supported by > the main org-mode project. I have looked through that thread. I do not think that it applies. Implementing LSP server for Elisp will give little benefit for Emacs while giving a "free" and large benefit to non-free software at the same time. Our situation is different. What I propose in a nutshell is: (1) Improve our technical documentation; (2) Improve our test coverage; (3) Attract more users to Org mode. Everything gives benefits to Org. In addition to better integration. Best, Ihor