From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Richard Lawrence Subject: Re: Citations, continued Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2015 11:24:11 -0800 Message-ID: <87iofhjx9g.fsf@berkeley.edu> References: <87vbjmn6wy.fsf@berkeley.edu> <87sieokx8e.fsf@berkeley.edu> <54d04780.cb58460a.5243.2603@mx.google.com> <87h9v3li8t.fsf@berkeley.edu> <54d078ff.b044440a.06ec.3cf6@mx.google.com> <87d25rkmag.fsf@berkeley.edu> <54d1bc7b.c57d440a.3c5d.2dca@mx.google.com> <87vbjhk6q5.fsf@berkeley.edu> <54d25dda.87a7420a.4dd8.7322@mx.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43381) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YJ5ZV-0007IQ-Qj for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Feb 2015 14:25:10 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YJ5ZR-0008K9-Ql for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Feb 2015 14:25:09 -0500 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:53377) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YJ5ZR-0008Gi-Jy for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Feb 2015 14:25:05 -0500 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YJ5ZO-0002nL-96 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Feb 2015 20:25:02 +0100 Received: from airbears2-136-152-142-177.airbears2.berkeley.edu ([136.152.142.177]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 04 Feb 2015 20:25:02 +0100 Received: from richard.lawrence by airbears2-136-152-142-177.airbears2.berkeley.edu with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 04 Feb 2015 20:25:02 +0100 List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Erik Hetzner writes: > On Wed, 4 Feb 2015 at 07:59:46 PST, > Richard Lawrence wrote: >> The idea is, a citation like "As Doe says in @Doe99:title, ..." should >> render like "As Doe says in /The Title/, ...", not like "As Doe says in >> Doe (1999), ...", even if "@Doe99" citations in the document generally >> render like the latter. I suspect this must be possible with >> citeproc/CSL, but I don't actually know, since Pandoc doesn't provide >> syntax for this kind of case. > It’s not supported in existing citeproc implementations, but I think > it would be possible to support something like this. On the other > hand, this is also something that is easily done by hand, so I don’t > know if it’s worth the trouble. Actually, I've changed my mind; it occurs to me that there is a good argument for /not/ adopting this syntax. First of all, the cases it is meant to cover are not really cases of /citations/ so much as cases of /indirections/. Writing "@Doe99:title" instead of the title of the work is just to aid the author; it does not produce enough information in the output to let the reader look up the referenced work, so it isn't really a citation. Second, it would be difficult to get the formatting of these selected fields right in general. Should titles be emphasized, or put in quotes? When do we insert commas between fields? etc. Instead, I think Org should provide functions that provide the same aid to document authors without the indirection, functions like: - org-get-fields-from-citation - org-insert-fields-from-citation-at-point - org-replace-citation-at-point-with-fields These would take care of looking up the desired data in the reference database and inserting it into the Org document, where the author could format it as desired. Furthermore, if someone *really* needs the indirection, I think it would be relatively straightforward to implement as an export filter, especially if the above functions are provided. This case should be uncommon enough that users can be expected to handle it themselves. So, unless someone thinks it's really important to find a workable solution, I hereby drop this (the `field selectors') part of my proposal. That means citations in the inline case can remain fully compatible with Pandoc. Best, Richard