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[2001:44b8:31f2:bb00:fe04:6766:d064:4e23]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m11-20020a17090aab0b00b001eac661025fsm6835266pjq.29.2022.06.19.16.04.11 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:04:13 -0700 (PDT) References: <87wndiv988.fsf@localhost> <87edznjyji.fsf@localhost> <87iloyree8.fsf@gmail.com> <86wndc93fz.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.7.28; emacs 28.1.50 From: Tim Cross To: Edouard Debry Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Orgmode plain list bullet : change automatically with list depth Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2022 08:50:16 +1000 In-reply-to: <86wndc93fz.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87ilowntle.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102e; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x102e.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1655679906; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=ydvM7gq2xYsVh5NpPmHGwe/f9AijC74KVsu0c9Ag3zA=; b=AHfBoHcsAMrdu1QFkbXAnqEIGI+e0KXgxFHuqXxAbJyfJkMxy4SbT+36lr6d/IpinvlUBv XWkO56HYjVq06UEmcA8vwnmDwELK7yrJEpfmyxm7Itn6FGl8VI7pis40bYtraYKrG/rfN9 R1S/5dRSnIbXDRvhbzzkWU8R+JXP104udiidy0CbNmjT8a5g59Ojnk8YR1Xl1S163jWSO6 DMw7ZYdslB0qw/1yz4BZhg/UDsEJ2consyIPy7/W8WYk9rIO6mb2bV8JJTdlxR4uhSeps2 u7SOG3V32WFzuIry1AJmmimlFxwYGg/sUG97opbR3CsPg87l1f3CR/zvmbtxWw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1655679906; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=qN1Hr+HuSsvT1z3OIwGTwPLoyDe+d/AI6qxLNGP4sStzf1A2UoSYYEwkU9vsiWTxuDJ/i1 9mXUVbhZ1y17t1+pqEQHn/UwIhANpP1L+J18gTOlGLEQBQKK6Pink8+XSxzmVYywHLFQAB PxO78gmk5dSPHKv6Hc3DnfXxV42rzO1DjSQOciIt58hWefNHt5B421Kwdc7ClWpycZlAq0 ywqsMRnMf5OqOO4/bvCHWpue1xImrNrUYreRwKzm+1gOXvRdsUI85DS0PAcb+VxUKkyz7+ GN8kQlj+lUwfw4yehgiRu98vrRSPv1cXRgqrwuYzjXfkTGM8r4YyDysAghKyIw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=pVIfnBSU; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.98 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=pVIfnBSU; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 4E414A213 X-Spam-Score: -3.98 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: Q0irwxtPlO6o Edouard Debry writes: > Are you sure bullet lists are irrelevant to org ? > > I tried without success to make a list without "-" or "+" in my > *scratch*. > Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. The 'marker' which is at the start of a list item is important to org. What isn't important is the type of list marker i.e. '-', '+', and '*' are all the same token which designate the start of a list item when the first character of an indented line. There is no relationship to item nesting depth. The point I was trying to make is that the token when used to convey other meanings, like nesting depth, sits at the 'human' layer and therefore, should be 'tweaked' using font-lock i.e. if you want different tokens to mark different list nesting levels, use font-lock to adjust the appearance of the token at each level rather than changing underlying syntax to give '-', '+' and '*' additional meanings they don't have at the code layer now. This also has the advantage of not imposing a specific use for different tokens on all users i.e. some users might want to use all 3 tokens in a list, but not simply to reflect nesting levels. The disadvantage of using font-lock is that currently, defining the regular expression can be hard. However, I think other work being done to allow font-lock to leverage off information supplied by the parser might simplify that situation. So to be clear, I was not saying that the ability to have different characters to represent different nesting depth in lists was misguided, only implementing that as part of the syntax and having org enforce it with actual characters in the file was. Remapping to a different character for display purposes based on the depth of the list item is perfectly fine and in-line with similar techniques to do things like replacing multiple '*' in headers with different single unicode characters (like the various 'bullets' packages do).