Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Karl Voit]

Hi!

TL;DR: org-feed.el is not a doable replacement for Google Reader.
       What about alternatives?

I am using Google Reader with the Android app "NewsRob Pro" which is
very good in terms of features that make sense and support my
workflow.

Google Reader will die in July and therefore NewsRob will die as
well (or has to migrate to another server platform which is unlikely
due to lack of time from the author).

So I was thinking of using Emacs with or without Org-mode as a
potential replacement. I basically live in Org-mode. Since I read
RSS a *lot* on my Android devices (yes, even being at home), I'd
love to have sync abilities between desktop Emacs and something like
MobileOrg.

I stumbled upon org-feed.el[1][2] and tried it with two of my RSS
feeds (heise, Dilbert).

It's working. In a way.

Unfortunately, there is no (obvious) way of getting the feed content
rather than the short description (for selected feeds). Images are
not shown (Dilbert comic strip) and HTML fragments are all over the
place making it hard to read the news. Since the resulting data did
not fulfill basic requirements, I did not even bother and try to sync
it to MobileOrg.

Therefore, org-feed.el is not a replacement for Google Reader and
NewsRob for my set of requirements at all.

I wonder if there are a group of people having the same issue
because of the demise of Google Reader and apps that sync from/to
there.

Any suggestions? Ideas?

I'd prefer to think about having a solution which is hosted on my
computers rather than having to re-do the switch when the next cloud
based service stops working in a year or so.

  1. http://orgmode.org/manual/RSS-Feeds.html
  2. http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/org-feed.html
-- 
Karl Voit

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Andreas Leha]

Hi Karl,

Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> writes:

> Hi!
>
> TL;DR: org-feed.el is not a doable replacement for Google Reader.
>        What about alternatives?
>
> I am using Google Reader with the Android app "NewsRob Pro" which is
> very good in terms of features that make sense and support my
> workflow.
>
> Google Reader will die in July and therefore NewsRob will die as
> well (or has to migrate to another server platform which is unlikely
> due to lack of time from the author).
>
> So I was thinking of using Emacs with or without Org-mode as a
> potential replacement. I basically live in Org-mode. Since I read
> RSS a *lot* on my Android devices (yes, even being at home), I'd
> love to have sync abilities between desktop Emacs and something like
> MobileOrg.
>
> I stumbled upon org-feed.el[1][2] and tried it with two of my RSS
> feeds (heise, Dilbert).
>
> It's working. In a way.
>
> Unfortunately, there is no (obvious) way of getting the feed content
> rather than the short description (for selected feeds). Images are
> not shown (Dilbert comic strip) and HTML fragments are all over the
> place making it hard to read the news. Since the resulting data did
> not fulfill basic requirements, I did not even bother and try to sync
> it to MobileOrg.
>
> Therefore, org-feed.el is not a replacement for Google Reader and
> NewsRob for my set of requirements at all.
>
> I wonder if there are a group of people having the same issue
> because of the demise of Google Reader and apps that sync from/to
> there.
>
> Any suggestions? Ideas?
>
> I'd prefer to think about having a solution which is hosted on my
> computers rather than having to re-do the switch when the next cloud
> based service stops working in a year or so.

This is not an answer to your question, sorry.

But you can host your own reader.  I can recommend tiny-tiny-rss, which
also has a nice android client (two, actually).

To get the content instead of the short description, you can try
full-text-rss (you can host this yourself as well).  It does not work
perfect (esp. heise content is missing in a lot of articles), but
improves the situation.

I expect a good solution based on emacs to be hard to set up, because of
heavy image/markup/codesnippet/..-use in many articles and because of
syncing.  But I'll follow this thread and would be habby to be proven
wrong...

Regards,
Andreas

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Carmine Casciato]

Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> writes:

> Hi!
>
> TL;DR: org-feed.el is not a doable replacement for Google Reader.
>        What about alternatives?

Hi Karl, 

You can perhaps try with Gnus and Gwene? It seems like many people have been
uploading their OPML's since the Reader announcement, so there is a nice
selection of blogs to choose from already.

Cheers,
Carmine

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Karl Voit]

* Carmine Casciato <casciato@gmail.com> wrote:
> Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> writes:
>
>> TL;DR: org-feed.el is not a doable replacement for Google Reader.
>>        What about alternatives?
>
> Hi Karl, 

Hi Carmine!

> You can perhaps try with Gnus and Gwene?

Thanks for the pointer.

On the one hand, I do not have any Gnus experience and from the
things I already read about Gnus configuration, I want to keep it
that way. On the other hand, Gnus does not offer something to sync
with for the Android platform AFAIK.

So, yeah, Gnus/Gwene might be a possibility for people who do only
read RSS feeds within their Emacs setup. But for now, I want to try
to find a solution which is not that far away from my Reader/NewsRob
experience.

And yes, I also assume that this are requirements that
Emacs/Org-mode is not able to meet (yet). But you never know what
good hints you will get on ML like this :-)

-- 
Karl Voit

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Fabrice Popineau]

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Lately I have seen many people reporting to be afraid of Gnus configuration.
There is nothing to be afraid of there. It is a bit like Org : you
can keep it simple and short or very long and complex.
Gnus is definitely the best mail/news/(rss) reader I have used.
But there are 2 big drawbacks for me:
- Emacs is not multi-threaded and if you use Gnus heavily, it is painful
not being able to type in a window while Gnus is sorting out your stuff
- I wish Emacs to be able to actually render HTML in a buffer (w3m not
a valid option under Windows at least)

Fabrice


2013/3/26 Karl Voit <devnull@karl-voit.at>

> * Carmine Casciato <casciato@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> writes:
> >
> >> TL;DR: org-feed.el is not a doable replacement for Google Reader.
> >>        What about alternatives?
> >
> > Hi Karl,
>
> Hi Carmine!
>
> > You can perhaps try with Gnus and Gwene?
>
> Thanks for the pointer.
>
> On the one hand, I do not have any Gnus experience and from the
> things I already read about Gnus configuration, I want to keep it
> that way. On the other hand, Gnus does not offer something to sync
> with for the Android platform AFAIK.
>
> So, yeah, Gnus/Gwene might be a possibility for people who do only
> read RSS feeds within their Emacs setup. But for now, I want to try
> to find a solution which is not that far away from my Reader/NewsRob
> experience.
>
> And yes, I also assume that this are requirements that
> Emacs/Org-mode is not able to meet (yet). But you never know what
> good hints you will get on ML like this :-)
>
> --
> Karl Voit
>
>
>


-- 
Fabrice Popineau
-----------------------------
SUPELEC
Département Informatique
3, rue Joliot Curie
91192 Gif/Yvette Cedex
Tel direct : +33 (0) 169851950
Standard : +33 (0) 169851212
------------------------------

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Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[W. Greenhouse]

+1 here from another Org and Gnus user who couldn't really get org-feed.el to
work as an RSS reader, but loves Gnus+Gwene.

Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau-vbcOdlJ0SulGWvitb5QawA@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Lately I have seen many people reporting to be afraid of Gnus
> configuration.
> There is nothing to be afraid of there. It is a bit like Org : you 
> can keep it simple and short or very long and complex.
> Gnus is definitely the best mail/news/(rss) reader I have used.
> But there are 2 big drawbacks for me:
> - Emacs is not multi-threaded and if you use Gnus heavily, it is
> painful
> not being able to type in a window while Gnus is sorting out your
> stuff
> - I wish Emacs to be able to actually render HTML in a buffer (w3m
> not 
> a valid option under Windows at least)
>
> Fabrice

Fabrice, recent Gnusae have a built-in HTML renderer which even
(somewhat) handles CSS.  try (setq mm-text-html-renderer 'shr).

Incidentally, here is also newsticker.el.

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Nick Dokos]

Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau@supelec.fr> wrote:

> Lately I have seen many people reporting to be afraid of Gnus configuration.
> There is nothing to be afraid of there. It is a bit like Org : you 
> can keep it simple and short or very long and complex.
> Gnus is definitely the best mail/news/(rss) reader I have used.
> But there are 2 big drawbacks for me:
> - Emacs is not multi-threaded and if you use Gnus heavily, it is painful
> not being able to type in a window while Gnus is sorting out your stuff

I don't use Gnus for anything other than news (and I read very little of
that nowadays). But I'm on IRC using ERC and I run a second emacs
instance just for that, while my main instance is where I live most of
the time: maybe a second emacs instance would work for your use case?

> - I wish Emacs to be able to actually render HTML in a buffer (w3m not 
> a valid option under Windows at least)
> 

Under Linux, w3m is usable (just barely) but like all text browsers, it
works better with text-heavy pages without too many bells and whistles:
certainly not a substitute for a full-blown browser. Re: Windows - the
web page says it's available on Windows (with Cygwin): is that not true?

Nick

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Ivan Kanis]

Le 26 Mars à 13h49, Karl Voit a écrit :

> TL;DR: org-feed.el is not a doable replacement for Google Reader.
>        What about alternatives?

I use newsticker, it's part of emacs.
-- 
Aide-toi, l'État ne t'aidera pas.
    -- Auguste Detœuf

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Sebastien Vauban]

Hi Nick,

Nick Dokos wrote:
>> - I wish Emacs to be able to actually render HTML in a buffer (w3m not 
>> a valid option under Windows at least)
>
> Under Linux, w3m is usable (just barely) but like all text browsers, it
> works better with text-heavy pages without too many bells and whistles:
> certainly not a substitute for a full-blown browser. Re: Windows - the web
> page says it's available on Windows (with Cygwin): is that not true?

It is available from Cygwin, and it does work well for the HTML mails I
receive in Gnus. Of course, it's limited (no JavaScript, a.o.), but that's no
different from under Linux.

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Fabrice Popineau]

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I banned Cygwin quite a while ago because of too many instabilities
(versions of the dll),
and the awful stuff of being obliged to "mount" drives and so on.
Windows is not Unix. If I want Unix, I install some Ubuntu in a VM or on a
spare machine.
Under Windows, I use  gnuwin32 whenever I can and mingw/msys sometimes
(just to compile the trunk org-mode at the moment, because it is easier
than write msvc makefiles)

Back to w3m, rendering html this way may be ok, but it remains quite slow,
it make emacs busy
for something that chrome is designed to do quickly. So I use chrome and
gmail. Once you find that
you can program some stuff with scripts in google apps, I do almost what I
was used to with Gnus.
I can even compose messages in emacs if needed (using the edit server
chrome extension for emacs).

Well everyone has to find his best setup.
Sorry for having been out of topic
(hopefully not out of interest for everyone).

Fabrice



2013/3/26 Sebastien Vauban <wxhgmqzgwmuf@spammotel.com>

> Hi Nick,
>
> Nick Dokos wrote:
> >> - I wish Emacs to be able to actually render HTML in a buffer (w3m not
> >> a valid option under Windows at least)
> >
> > Under Linux, w3m is usable (just barely) but like all text browsers, it
> > works better with text-heavy pages without too many bells and whistles:
> > certainly not a substitute for a full-blown browser. Re: Windows - the
> web
> > page says it's available on Windows (with Cygwin): is that not true?
>
> It is available from Cygwin, and it does work well for the HTML mails I
> receive in Gnus. Of course, it's limited (no JavaScript, a.o.), but that's
> no
> different from under Linux.
>
> Best regards,
>   Seb
>
> --
> Sebastien Vauban
>
>
>


-- 
Fabrice Popineau
-----------------------------
SUPELEC
Département Informatique
3, rue Joliot Curie
91192 Gif/Yvette Cedex
Tel direct : +33 (0) 169851950
Standard : +33 (0) 169851212
------------------------------

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2853 bytes --]

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Karl Voit]

* W. Greenhouse <wgreenhouse@riseup.net> wrote:
> +1 here from another Org and Gnus user who couldn't really get org-feed.el to
> work as an RSS reader, but loves Gnus+Gwene.
>
> Fabrice Popineau <fabrice.popineau@supelec.fr> writes:
>
>> Lately I have seen many people reporting to be afraid of Gnus
>> configuration.
>> There is nothing to be afraid of there.

OK, so as I assumed, there is no method out there to read RSS feeds
with Emacs and sync to mobile Android devices (content and
read/unread information).

Well, in this case I have to switch to another cloud based services
which hopefully does not quit soon.

Thanks for the insight of your RSS setups! Always interesting to see
how other people are organizing their workflows.

-- 
Karl Voit

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Samuel Loury]

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Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> writes:

> OK, so as I assumed, there is no method out there to read RSS feeds
> with Emacs and sync to mobile Android devices (content and
> read/unread information).

Let me propose another way to fulfill the same need:

To my mind, there is not much difference between fetching unread rss and
fetching unread mails. Then why bother trying to duplicate the effort in
mail readers and rss readers?

I use feed2imap for 2 years now and it works really well. It is a ruby
script that sync your rss (atom) feeds and put new resources on an imap
server with a specified label. Nonetheless, AFAIK, It does not provide a
way to get to the full content of the resources like Full Text RSS does.

If you put a dedicated (let's say RSS) label to all the rss and with a
little bit of configuration, You are able to read unread mails and
unread rss independently.

It fulfills the needs (read rss within emacs and android with a 2 ways
sync) indirectly for me because I read my mails in emacs and I have a
mail reader in android (K9Mail).

There are also alternatives using smtp protocol to send the items as
mail.

> Well, in this case I have to switch to another cloud based services
> which hopefully does not quit soon.

My proposal relies on a server constantly connected to the Internet and
updating some imap account with the rss items. I guess you may want a
more "decentralized" solution with a sync between android and emacs.

If it is the case and you find a solution providing that, I would love
to read it in that mailing list.

Greetings,
-- 
Konubinix
GPG Key    : 7439106A
Fingerprint: 5993 BE7A DA65 E2D9 06CE  5C36 75D2 3CED 7439 106A

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 489 bytes --]

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Rasmus]

Samuel Loury <konubinix@gmail.com> writes:

> I use feed2imap for 2 years now and it works really well. It is a ruby
> script that sync your rss (atom) feeds and put new resources on an imap
> server with a specified label. Nonetheless, AFAIK, It does not provide a
> way to get to the full content of the resources like Full Text RSS does.

That's a great idea!  Thanks for sharing,  I'll look into this!

–Rasmus

-- 
El Rey ha muerto. ¡Larga vida al Rey!

[OT] Replacement for Google Reader (was: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader)

[Memnon Anon]

Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> writes:

> TL;DR: org-feed.el is not a doable replacement for Google Reader.
>        What about alternatives?

NNTP:
- gwene.org

Mail:
- rss2email

Web:
- rawdog
- Tiny Tiny Rss

hth
Memnon

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Karl Voit]

* Samuel Loury <konubinix@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Let me propose another way to fulfill the same need:

Sure!

> To my mind, there is not much difference between fetching unread rss and
> fetching unread mails. Then why bother trying to duplicate the effort in
> mail readers and rss readers?

Good point.

> I use feed2imap for 2 years now and it works really well. It is a ruby
> script that sync your rss (atom) feeds and put new resources on an imap
> server with a specified label. Nonetheless, AFAIK, It does not provide a
> way to get to the full content of the resources like Full Text RSS does.
[...]

OK. New to me, thanks for the pointer!

> My proposal relies on a server constantly connected to the Internet and
> updating some imap account with the rss items. I guess you may want a
> more "decentralized" solution with a sync between android and emacs.

Not necessarily. I do have access to such a server but it is quite
loaded and the admin does not want to install additional services
that adds something to the load. I will negotiate with him :-)

> If it is the case and you find a solution providing that, I would love
> to read it in that mailing list.

If I find something related to Org/Emacs/feed2imap, I will follow
up here.

-- 
Karl Voit

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Jude DaShiell]

newsticker has been part of emacs since 22.x and it's supposed to be 
able to read rss feeds and display them.  Now, how to get from what's in 
info newsticker to actually adding a real feed and have newsticker work 
is another matter entirely.  I'm reading what's in info newsticker and 
don't yet fully understand where to store the feed and specifically what 
commands need be used to add feeds and delete feeds from a feeds list 
yet.

On Wed, 27 Mar 2013, Samuel Loury wrote:

> Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> writes:
> 
> > OK, so as I assumed, there is no method out there to read RSS feeds
> > with Emacs and sync to mobile Android devices (content and
> > read/unread information).
> 
> Let me propose another way to fulfill the same need:
> 
> To my mind, there is not much difference between fetching unread rss and
> fetching unread mails. Then why bother trying to duplicate the effort in
> mail readers and rss readers?
> 
> I use feed2imap for 2 years now and it works really well. It is a ruby
> script that sync your rss (atom) feeds and put new resources on an imap
> server with a specified label. Nonetheless, AFAIK, It does not provide a
> way to get to the full content of the resources like Full Text RSS does.
> 
> If you put a dedicated (let's say RSS) label to all the rss and with a
> little bit of configuration, You are able to read unread mails and
> unread rss independently.
> 
> It fulfills the needs (read rss within emacs and android with a 2 ways
> sync) indirectly for me because I read my mails in emacs and I have a
> mail reader in android (K9Mail).
> 
> There are also alternatives using smtp protocol to send the items as
> mail.
> 
> > Well, in this case I have to switch to another cloud based services
> > which hopefully does not quit soon.
> 
> My proposal relies on a server constantly connected to the Internet and
> updating some imap account with the rss items. I guess you may want a
> more "decentralized" solution with a sync between android and emacs.
> 
> If it is the case and you find a solution providing that, I would love
> to read it in that mailing list.
> 
> Greetings,
> 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
jude <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
Microsoft, windows is accessible. why do blind people need screen readers?

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Carmine Casciato]

Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@shellworld.net> writes:

> newsticker has been part of emacs since 22.x and it's supposed to be 
> able to read rss feeds and display them.  Now, how to get from what's in 
> info newsticker to actually adding a real feed and have newsticker work 
> is another matter entirely.  I'm reading what's in info newsticker and 
> don't yet fully understand where to store the feed and specifically what 
> commands need be used to add feeds and delete feeds from a feeds list 
> yet.
>
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2013, Samuel Loury wrote:
>


I tried it a few days ago, and it worked right of the box. It even
includes a few feeds you can start with. The customize-group for
newsticker was all I needed.

The problem was when I tried to import the hundred-blog opml file, which
it did fine. However, due to the threaded nature of emacs, it froze
emacs for a long time as it went and called each blog. Perhaps async.el
can help here. In any case, it made emacs quite unusable. Shame, cuz
it's a nice setup for rss reading.

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Jude DaShiell]

I did also try rss2email r2e and that needs its config.py file put in 
the ~/.rss2email/ directory and users will need to edit that config.py 
file to set things correct for local installations.  It does work once 
this gets done.

On Wed, 27 Mar 2013, Carmine Casciato wrote:

> 
> Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@shellworld.net> writes:
> 
> > newsticker has been part of emacs since 22.x and it's supposed to be 
> > able to read rss feeds and display them.  Now, how to get from what's in 
> > info newsticker to actually adding a real feed and have newsticker work 
> > is another matter entirely.  I'm reading what's in info newsticker and 
> > don't yet fully understand where to store the feed and specifically what 
> > commands need be used to add feeds and delete feeds from a feeds list 
> > yet.
> >
> > On Wed, 27 Mar 2013, Samuel Loury wrote:
> >
> 
> 
> I tried it a few days ago, and it worked right of the box. It even
> includes a few feeds you can start with. The customize-group for
> newsticker was all I needed.
> 
> The problem was when I tried to import the hundred-blog opml file, which
> it did fine. However, due to the threaded nature of emacs, it froze
> emacs for a long time as it went and called each blog. Perhaps async.el
> can help here. In any case, it made emacs quite unusable. Shame, cuz
> it's a nice setup for rss reading.
> 
> 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
jude <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
Microsoft, windows is accessible. why do blind people need screen readers?

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[François Pinard]

Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@shellworld.net> writes:

> Now, how to get from what's in info newsticker to actually adding a
> real feed and have newsticker work is another matter entirely.

I gave it a quick try, and found frustrating that it looks attractive in
its display and specs, that it seems to be nicely done at first glance,
but that it invariably throws Emacs in what seems to be an infinite CPU
loop, leaving me no choice than to kill Emacs each time.  Sigh!

François

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at>:

> On the one hand, I do not have any Gnus experience

It doesn't have to be Gnus.  Any NNTP client will work with feeds on
gwene.  On the PC you could eg. use Thunderbird.

> and from the things I already read about Gnus configuration, I want to
> keep it that way.

There is a big difference in what you _can_ do, and what you have to do.

If you just want to read news with NNTP you basically only have to point
it to at least one NNTP server (eg. gwene).

> On the other hand, Gnus does not offer something to sync with for the
> Android platform AFAIK.

If you want a gwene reader for the android platform you will have to
find an NNTP client for android.  I don't know if there is one... well
seems to be a couple:
 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ken.android.nntpreader.pro&hl=no

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Rainer M. Krug]

Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> writes:

>>>>>> Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at>:
>
>> On the one hand, I do not have any Gnus experience
>
> It doesn't have to be Gnus.  Any NNTP client will work with feeds on
> gwene.  On the PC you could eg. use Thunderbird.
>
>> and from the things I already read about Gnus configuration, I want to
>> keep it that way.
>
> There is a big difference in what you _can_ do, and what you have to do.
>
> If you just want to read news with NNTP you basically only have to point
> it to at least one NNTP server (eg. gwene).
>
>> On the other hand, Gnus does not offer something to sync with for the
>> Android platform AFAIK.
>
> If you want a gwene reader for the android platform you will have to
> find an NNTP client for android.  I don't know if there is one... well
> seems to be a couple:
>  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ken.android.nntpreader.pro&hl=no

There is, imho, one big difference between using google reader and gwene
with any desktop news reader: as far as I know, you can not sync read
items between ydifferent readers (desktops, mobile devices, tablets,
...). This is for me a problem, as I mainly read from my iPad, and
sometimes friom my desktop. But I want to see only the news which I did
not read on the other device. So something like an imap implementation
for gwene would be needed to make it a *very* interesting solution for
me. As it stands at the moment, I registered with feedly [1] which
syncs with google reader (while it still exists) and provides very
similar benefits.

If I could sync my gnus (it is really not that difficult to get started,
but much more difficult to not get carried away with configuring and
tweaking - just because one can... But I love gnus: highly recommended)
with my mobile device, I will stick with feedly.

Cheers,

Rainer

>
>
<#secure method=pgpmime mode=sign>


Footnotes: 
[1]  http://www.feedly.com

-- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel :       +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell:       +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax :       +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D):    +49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email:      Rainer@krugs.de

Skype:      RMkrug

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Karl Voit]

* Rainer M. Krug <Rainer@krugs.de> wrote:
>
> There is, imho, one big difference between using google reader and gwene
> with any desktop news reader: as far as I know, you can not sync read
> items between ydifferent readers (desktops, mobile devices, tablets,
> ...). This is for me a problem, as I mainly read from my iPad, and
> sometimes friom my desktop. 

Besides the fact that I am using my Android phone and my Android
tablet in addition to my desktop, I totally copy your point.

> But I want to see only the news which I did not read on the other
> device. So something like an imap implementation for gwene would
> be needed to make it a *very* interesting solution for me. 

Ack.

However, for me it is necessary to implement per-feed settings for
grabbing the article content. Some feeds do offer only a short
description of the content but I want to get the whole article
without indirection over mobile browsers or such.

> As it stands at the moment, I registered with feedly [1] which
> syncs with google reader (while it still exists) and provides very
> similar benefits.

Yes. BUT: feedly does not offer offline support. Thus, when I am on
an airplane or without data connection, I am not able to read my RSS
feeds. Not acceptable to me.

> If I could sync my gnus (it is really not that difficult to get started,
> but much more difficult to not get carried away with configuring and
> tweaking - just because one can... But I love gnus: highly recommended)
> with my mobile device, I will stick with feedly.

I tested Emacs on my Android tablet and no, I definitely do *not*
want to use my beloved Emacs on this very limited device
(shortcuts/keyboard).

-- 
mail|git|SVN|photos|postings|SMS|phonecalls|RSS|CSV|XML to Org-mode:
       > get Memacs from https://github.com/novoid/Memacs <

https://github.com/novoid/extract_pdf_annotations_to_orgmode + more on github

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Rainer M. Krug]

Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> writes:

> * Rainer M. Krug <Rainer@krugs.de> wrote:
>>
>> There is, imho, one big difference between using google reader and gwene
>> with any desktop news reader: as far as I know, you can not sync read
>> items between ydifferent readers (desktops, mobile devices, tablets,
>> ...). This is for me a problem, as I mainly read from my iPad, and
>> sometimes friom my desktop. 
>
> Besides the fact that I am using my Android phone and my Android
> tablet in addition to my desktop, I totally copy your point.
>
>> But I want to see only the news which I did not read on the other
>> device. So something like an imap implementation for gwene would
>> be needed to make it a *very* interesting solution for me. 
>
> Ack.

Ack?

>
> However, for me it is necessary to implement per-feed settings for
> grabbing the article content. Some feeds do offer only a short
> description of the content but I want to get the whole article
> without indirection over mobile browsers or such.
>
>> As it stands at the moment, I registered with feedly [1] which
>> syncs with google reader (while it still exists) and provides very
>> similar benefits.
>
> Yes. BUT: feedly does not offer offline support. Thus, when I am on
> an airplane or without data connection, I am not able to read my RSS
> feeds. Not acceptable to me.

This is most definitely a huge problem - I agree. But if I remember
correctly, they are working on it. The only additional thing which is
missing is being able to sync from the other reader apps which have
offline support with feedly.

>
>> If I could sync my gnus (it is really not that difficult to get started,
>> but much more difficult to not get carried away with configuring and
>> tweaking - just because one can... But I love gnus: highly recommended)
>> with my mobile device, I will stick with feedly.
>
> I tested Emacs on my Android tablet and no, I definitely do *not*
> want to use my beloved Emacs on this very limited device
> (shortcuts/keyboard).

I can imagine - a regular emacs on an android touch tablet without an
additional keyboard...

Cheers,

Rainer


-- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel :       +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell:       +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax :       +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D):    +49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email:      Rainer@krugs.de

Skype:      RMkrug

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Karl Voit]

* Rainer M. Krug <Rainer@krugs.de> wrote:
> Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> writes:
>
>> * Rainer M. Krug <Rainer@krugs.de> wrote:
>>
>>> But I want to see only the news which I did not read on the other
>>> device. So something like an imap implementation for gwene would
>>> be needed to make it a *very* interesting solution for me. 
>>
>> Ack.
>
> Ack?

Sorry for using an abbr. that is not as widespread as I thought.

Ack = Acknowledge. Here I used it in short for „I agree“.

>> Yes. BUT: feedly does not offer offline support. Thus, when I am on
>> an airplane or without data connection, I am not able to read my RSS
>> feeds. Not acceptable to me.
>
> This is most definitely a huge problem - I agree. But if I remember
> correctly, they are working on it. The only additional thing which is
> missing is being able to sync from the other reader apps which have
> offline support with feedly.

Most important features to me.

>> I tested Emacs on my Android tablet and no, I definitely do *not*
>> want to use my beloved Emacs on this very limited device
>> (shortcuts/keyboard).
>
> I can imagine - a regular emacs on an android touch tablet without an
> additional keyboard...

I also tested a FreedomPro bluetooth keyboard with my XOOM tablet.
Unfortunately, no Ctrl/ESC/Alt is working. So Android/Emacs is not
usable without the Hacker's keyboard which is an on-screen keyboard
that offers all those modifier keys. When the on-screen keyboard
uses half of the tablet screen, it is no fun using Emacs at all.

-- 
mail|git|SVN|photos|postings|SMS|phonecalls|RSS|CSV|XML to Org-mode:
       > get Memacs from https://github.com/novoid/Memacs <

https://github.com/novoid/extract_pdf_annotations_to_orgmode + more on github

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Tom]

Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> schrieb:
[...]
>> I can imagine - a regular emacs on an android touch tablet without an
>> additional keyboard...
>
>I also tested a FreedomPro bluetooth keyboard with my XOOM tablet.
>Unfortunately, no Ctrl/ESC/Alt is working. So Android/Emacs is not
>usable without the Hacker's keyboard which is an on-screen keyboard
>that offers all those modifier keys. When the on-screen keyboard
>uses half of the tablet screen, it is no fun using Emacs at all.

There is an app, External Keyboard Helper (Pro), that enables full usage of most bluetooth/usb keyboards. It is not without usability Problems, some would need a rooted phone to solve, but I'm happy with the setup so far. I mostly need it for connectbot sessions.
It is a payed app, but there is a free version, so you can test your setup first.

Regards,
Tom

--
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit K-9 Mail gesendet.

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[François Pinard]

Rainer@krugs.de (Rainer M. Krug) writes:

> Ack?

That comes from ASCII (the first edition of the standard), which had two
control characters (OK, it had more than two control characters, but I'm
only looking at those two!): ACK and NAK, for Acknowledge and Negative
Acknowledge.

At this time, serial communications were often half duplex (only one
side writes at a time), and prone to loosing characters.  RS 232 defined
RTS and CTS (Request to Send and Clear to Send) for implementing half
duplex at the wire level.  When at a higher level, things were differing
depending on if you used asynchronous modems or rarer synchronous modems
(where start bits and stop bits could be spared, so increasing the speed
a tiny bit): asynchronous were using XON and XOFF (Transmission On and
Transmission Off), synchronous were using ACK and NAK.

Do I remember well?  In ASCII 2, XON/XOFF/ACK/NAK were all renamed
DC1/DC2/DC3/DC4 (not necessarily in that order), (DC stands for Data
Control).  Or was it SI and SO (Shift In and Shift Out)?  I'm not sure.
Yet, in any case, ACK and NAK remained in the culture for much longer.

This is while going from ASCII 1 to ASCII 2 that NUL and BEL both
acquired their second "L" :-).

François

OT: Android, external HW-keyboard and Emacs (was: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader)

[Karl Voit]

* Tom <tom@goochesa.de> wrote:
>
> Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> schrieb:
>>
>>I also tested a FreedomPro bluetooth keyboard with my XOOM tablet.
>>Unfortunately, no Ctrl/ESC/Alt is working. So Android/Emacs is not
>>usable without the Hacker's keyboard which is an on-screen
>>keyboard that offers all those modifier keys. When the on-screen
>>keyboard uses half of the tablet screen, it is no fun using Emacs
>>at all.
>
> There is an app, External Keyboard Helper (Pro), that enables full
> usage of most bluetooth/usb keyboards. It is not without usability
> Problems, some would need a rooted phone to solve, but I'm happy
> with the setup so far. I mostly need it for connectbot sessions. 

Thank you *very* much for this pointer!

Unfortunately, my Android Emacs segfaults now (can't test it) and
while typing in a note taking app works quite fine, simple
characters like «!» do not work in ConnectBot/vim :-(

I have to invest some time in this tool. Probably I might be able to
get it to work.

-- 
mail|git|SVN|photos|postings|SMS|phonecalls|RSS|CSV|XML to Org-mode:
       > get Memacs from https://github.com/novoid/Memacs <

https://github.com/novoid/extract_pdf_annotations_to_orgmode + more on github

Re: OT: Android, external HW-keyboard and Emacs

[David Rogers]

Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> writes:

> Unfortunately, my Android Emacs segfaults now (can't test it)

There is a known segfault related to having the font size set too
large. I forget how to fix it because I haven't been using Android Emacs
lately, but try setting the font smaller in whatever way you can.

-- 
David

Re: OT: Android, external HW-keyboard and Emacs

[Eric S Fraga]

Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> writes:

> Unfortunately, my Android Emacs segfaults now (can't test it) and

I found that you can get the Emacs app started without segfaulting if
you reduce the font size.  Of course, that may make the text
illegible for you... :-(

The on-screen keyboard is not ideal, of course.  My bluetooth
mini-keyboard doesn't transmit CTRL unfortunately so not very useful.

Basically, we're almost there but not quite.  It sure would be nice to
have Emacs running properly on Android just to be able to have full
org-mode on the move.  Although I'm using MobileOrg more and more, I'm
only using it for capturing notes.  I really want appointments and
everything else as well!

I've only tried Emacs on my recently acquired Nexus 4 (phone) but will
try it out on a tablet (Nexus 7) tomorrow hopefully.  Not what I want in
the long term but worth trying, I guess.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.3.50.1 and Org release_8.0-pre-347-g4b139e

Re: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader

[Eric S Fraga]

François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Rainer@krugs.de (Rainer M. Krug) writes:
>
>> Ack?
>
> That comes from ASCII (the first edition of the standard), which had two

And it was also what the cat in Bloom County used to say ;-)

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.3.50.1 and Org release_8.0-pre-347-g4b139e

Re: OT: Android, external HW-keyboard and Emacs (was: Org-mode as a replacement for Google Reader)

[Subhan Tindall]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1739 bytes --]

Android emacs has known problems segfaulting dependant on font size.  Try
starting with the smallest font & work your way up.
See:
https://github.com/zielmicha/emacs-android/issues/2
for further information & workarounds


On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 6:21 AM, Karl Voit <devnull@karl-voit.at> wrote:

> * Tom <tom@goochesa.de> wrote:
> >
> > Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> schrieb:
> >>
> >>I also tested a FreedomPro bluetooth keyboard with my XOOM tablet.
> >>Unfortunately, no Ctrl/ESC/Alt is working. So Android/Emacs is not
> >>usable without the Hacker's keyboard which is an on-screen
> >>keyboard that offers all those modifier keys. When the on-screen
> >>keyboard uses half of the tablet screen, it is no fun using Emacs
> >>at all.
> >
> > There is an app, External Keyboard Helper (Pro), that enables full
> > usage of most bluetooth/usb keyboards. It is not without usability
> > Problems, some would need a rooted phone to solve, but I'm happy
> > with the setup so far. I mostly need it for connectbot sessions.
>
> Thank you *very* much for this pointer!
>
> Unfortunately, my Android Emacs segfaults now (can't test it) and
> while typing in a note taking app works quite fine, simple
> characters like «!» do not work in ConnectBot/vim :-(
>
> I have to invest some time in this tool. Probably I might be able to
> get it to work.
>
> --
> mail|git|SVN|photos|postings|SMS|phonecalls|RSS|CSV|XML to Org-mode:
>        > get Memacs from https://github.com/novoid/Memacs <
>
> https://github.com/novoid/extract_pdf_annotations_to_orgmode + more on
> github
>
>
>


-- 
Subhan Michael Tindall | Software Developer
| smt@rentrakmail.com
RENTRAK | www.rentrak.com | NASDAQ: RENT

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2754 bytes --]

Re: OT: Android, external HW-keyboard and Emacs

[Karl Voit]

* Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> I found that you can get the Emacs app started without segfaulting if
> you reduce the font size.  Of course, that may make the text
> illegible for you... :-(

Thanks to everyone sending me this tipp. It worked :-)

> The on-screen keyboard is not ideal, of course.  My bluetooth
> mini-keyboard doesn't transmit CTRL unfortunately so not very useful.

Ack.  ... Oh ... I agree. :-)

> Basically, we're almost there but not quite.  It sure would be nice to
> have Emacs running properly on Android just to be able to have full
> org-mode on the move.  

I am looking forward to this!

> Although I'm using MobileOrg more and more, I'm only using it for
> capturing notes.  I really want appointments and everything else
> as well!

Same here at my side. Next, I want to test the agenda on MobileOrg
and the feature to show it on the Android calendar. This way, I want
to get rid of Google more and more which has proven to be not
reliable at all (dying Reader, dying APIs, ...).

-- 
mail|git|SVN|photos|postings|SMS|phonecalls|RSS|CSV|XML to Org-mode:
       > get Memacs from https://github.com/novoid/Memacs <

https://github.com/novoid/extract_pdf_annotations_to_orgmode + more on github

Re: OT: Android, external HW-keyboard and Emacs

[Eric S Fraga]

Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> writes:

> * Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Although I'm using MobileOrg more and more, I'm only using it for
>> capturing notes.  I really want appointments and everything else
>> as well!
>
> Same here at my side. Next, I want to test the agenda on MobileOrg
> and the feature to show it on the Android calendar. This way, I want
> to get rid of Google more and more which has proven to be not
> reliable at all (dying Reader, dying APIs, ...).

I tried out the sync to calendar option in MobileOrg.  It synced tasks
(i.e. scheduled and deadline entries) but not entries with just active
time stamps which are what I use for appointments.  In my use of org, I
have a clear distinction between tasks and appointments.  I schedule
tasks to days but not times.  Appointments are not tasks as they
disappear whether I attended them or not whereas tasks persist.

I would like active time stamps to appear in my calendar for the "at a
glance" identification of free and busy times and for reminders of when
I need to be somewhere.  I prefer to keep task information in org and
not in my Google calendar so MobileOrg's behaviour is exactly the
opposite of what I wanted unfortunately.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.3.50.1 and Org release_8.0.1-19-g9655a1

Android MobileOrg and appointments; ICS export and Google Calendar (was: OT: Android, external HW-keyboard and Emacs)

[Karl Voit]

* Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> I tried out the sync to calendar option in MobileOrg.  It synced tasks
> (i.e. scheduled and deadline entries) but not entries with just active
> time stamps which are what I use for appointments.  

Too bad.

> In my use of org, I have a clear distinction between tasks and
> appointments.  I schedule tasks to days but not times.
> Appointments are not tasks as they disappear whether I attended
> them or not whereas tasks persist.

Same here.

> I would like active time stamps to appear in my calendar for the
> "at a glance" identification of free and busy times and for
> reminders of when I need to be somewhere.  I prefer to keep task
> information in org and not in my Google calendar so MobileOrg's
> behaviour is exactly the opposite of what I wanted unfortunately.

Thanks you very much for this comment. This spares me trying out
"Agenda > MobileOrg > Android Calendar" for now.

So I have to stay with Google Calendar until I find something
better.


Related to this and in case of interest:

I implemented a Python-tool to filter my ICS export file. It removes
everything except few things such that I basically get a
free/busy-only ICS file. I can easily share it with friends without
having too much privacy issues. Get the tool at [1] if you need this
feature.

I also implemented a Python-tool that injects Google Calendar alarms
for tags on appointments like :rem15: (remind me 15 minutes ahead)
on [2]. However, this does not work yet because Google seems to
ignore ICS alarms while importing the file :-( (No solution found
yet)

  1. https://github.com/novoid/convert_iCal_to_free-busy-only
  2. https://github.com/novoid/postprocess_Org-mode_iCal_export
-- 
mail|git|SVN|photos|postings|SMS|phonecalls|RSS|CSV|XML to Org-mode:
       > get Memacs from https://github.com/novoid/Memacs <

https://github.com/novoid/extract_pdf_annotations_to_orgmode + more on github

Re: Android MobileOrg and appointments; ICS export and Google Calendar

[Eric S Fraga]

Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> writes:

[...]

> Thanks you very much for this comment. This spares me trying out
> "Agenda > MobileOrg > Android Calendar" for now.

I think MobileOrg is being extended so maybe there will be an option to
synchronise active time stamps.

> I also implemented a Python-tool that injects Google Calendar alarms
> for tags on appointments like :rem15: (remind me 15 minutes ahead)
> on [2]. However, this does not work yet because Google seems to
> ignore ICS alarms while importing the file :-( (No solution found
> yet)

Yes, this is annoying.  I export my appointments to ICS with reminder
times but these are ignored by Google's Calendar, as you note.  As is
typical of Google, it would appear, their tools do the minimum they
think is necessary and no more.  I really must find a better alternative
on Android for a calendar that can grok org!

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.3.50.1 and Org release_8.0.1-19-g9655a1

Re: OT: Android, external HW-keyboard and Emacs

[白い熊]

>* Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Basically, we're almost there but not quite.  It sure would be nice
>to
>> have Emacs running properly on Android just to be able to have full
>> org-mode on the move.

I've built glibc 2.17 for Android, now I compile all GNU apps natively on my phone (Samsung Galaxy Note II). Using http://kumatux.org/ (my app) I can install any compiled app anywhere locally on the system, withoit messing with the underlying file structure - originally I started developing this for my laptop, but particularly useful for Android...

So, I have full Emacs (latest bzr) running on the phone. Using Hacker's Keybod app works well.

I've been upgrading kumatux.org, will probably take me a month or two, to finish the latest rebuild - I'm converting to running out of Clisp, rather than just shell scripts.

Then I'm planning to publish a guide how to build emacs natively on Android, as well an put the built tarballs somewhere...

So, we're already there! I just need to polish what I'm using, no I can then publish it. I'll try to make sure not to forget to publicize here also.

--
白い熊

Re: OT: Android, external HW-keyboard and Emacs

[白い熊@相撲道]

>* Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Basically, we're almost there but not quite.  It sure would be nice
>to
>> have Emacs running properly on Android just to be able to have full
>> org-mode on the move.

I've built glibc 2.17 for Android, now I compile all GNU apps natively on my phone (Samsung Galaxy Note II). Using http://kumatux.org/ (my app) I can install any compiled app anywhere locally on the system, withoit messing with the underlying file structure - originally I started developing this for my laptop, but particularly useful for Android...

So, I have full Emacs (latest bzr) running on the phone. Using Hacker's Keybod app works well.

I've been upgrading kumatux.org, will probably take me a month or two, to finish the latest rebuild - I'm converting to running out of Clisp, rather than just shell scripts.

Then I'm planning to publish a guide how to build emacs natively on Android, as well an put the built tarballs somewhere...

So, we're already there! I just need to polish what I'm using, no I can then publish it. I'll try to make sure not to forget to publicize here also.

--
白い熊@相撲道

Re: OT: Android, external HW-keyboard and Emacs

[Julien Cubizolles]

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:


> I tried out the sync to calendar option in MobileOrg.  It synced tasks
> (i.e. scheduled and deadline entries) but not entries with just active
> time stamps which are what I use for appointments.

It's working for me: I'm using the latest MobileOrg from the PlayStore
and entries with just a time stamp are synced to my Android phone
calendar. I think however it didn't use to work before, and the doc on
the github site seems to say that it's not possible.

Julien.

Re: Android MobileOrg and appointments; ICS export and Google Calendar

[Rémi Vanicat]

Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at> writes:

> * Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>> I tried out the sync to calendar option in MobileOrg.  It synced tasks
>> (i.e. scheduled and deadline entries) but not entries with just active
>> time stamps which are what I use for appointments.  
>
> Too bad.

I don't know what differ in my config, but here, entries with active
time stamps are synced with my mobile agenda using MobileOrg on
android. 

-- 
Rémi Vanicat

Re: OT: Android, external HW-keyboard and Emacs

[Eric S Fraga]

Julien Cubizolles <j.cubizolles@free.fr> writes:

> Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:
>
>
>> I tried out the sync to calendar option in MobileOrg.  It synced tasks
>> (i.e. scheduled and deadline entries) but not entries with just active
>> time stamps which are what I use for appointments.
>
> It's working for me: I'm using the latest MobileOrg from the PlayStore
> and entries with just a time stamp are synced to my Android phone
> calendar. I think however it didn't use to work before, and the doc on
> the github site seems to say that it's not possible.
>
> Julien.

Interesting.  I'll have to try again although it's only been a month or
so since I last tried.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.3.50.1 and Org release_7.9.3f-1199-g3a0e55

Re: OT: Android, external HW-keyboard and Emacs

[Eric S Fraga]

"白い熊@相撲道" <emacs-orgmode_gnu.org@sumou.com> writes:

>>* Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>>> Basically, we're almost there but not quite.  It sure would be nice to
>>> have Emacs running properly on Android just to be able to have full
>>> org-mode on the move.  
>
> I've built glibc 2.17 for Android, now I compile all GNU apps natively
> on my phone (Samsung Galaxy Note II). Using http://kumatux.org/ (my

[...]

> So, I have full Emacs (latest bzr) running on the phone. Using
> Hacker's Keybod app works well.

[...]

> So, we're already there! I just need to polish what I'm using, no I
> can then publish it. I'll try to make sure not to forget to publicize
> here also.

This is really brilliant news!  I look forward to the announcement of
your polished system.  Is it worth looking at kumatux.org now or must I
wait?

thanks,
eric

-- 
: Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D
: in Emacs 24.3.50.1 and Org release_7.9.3f-1199-g3a0e55