Re: Re: RSI

Re: Re: RSI

[Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga]

At Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:50:08 -0400,
Matt Lundin wrote:
> key. Thus, short of using viper, the only solution that works for me is
> to use the Caps Lock key as Control. With that slight modification, I
> find emacs controls *very* comfortable (perhaps even as comfortable than

Yes, making caps lock act as control is key to using emacs without
pain (for me).  However, it's not a full solution for some keyboards
which don't have a caps lock key.  Therefore, I'm intrigued by your
reference to viper: is it possible to use, constructively and easily,
viper with org-mode?  If so, any pointers on how to accomplish this
would be fantastic!  A modal approach to writing/editing is fine with
me.

Re: Re: RSI

[Alan E. Davis]

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My 2 cents' worth.

In the 80's I learned to use word star with an XT keyboard, with function
keys down the left side and Ctl and Shift or Caps Lock opposite from the AT
keyboard.  I felt at the time, the AT keyboard was a step backwards.

Just this year, I tried to find an XT keyboard, style but wasn't able to
locate one.  I'd swap Caps Lock with Ctrl on my own keyboards, except I have
three or four computers I use routinely, including a laptop, and it would
just be more aggravation.

Any how, I wondered if the XT style keyboard would work well with emacs, and
how or whether this would affect this RSI issue.


Alan

You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world,  but when
you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird...
So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing---that's what counts.

   ----Richard Feynman



On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:

> At Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:50:08 -0400,
> Matt Lundin wrote:
> > key. Thus, short of using viper, the only solution that works for me is
> > to use the Caps Lock key as Control. With that slight modification, I
> > find emacs controls *very* comfortable (perhaps even as comfortable than
>
> Yes, making caps lock act as control is key to using emacs without
> pain (for me).  However, it's not a full solution for some keyboards
> which don't have a caps lock key.  Therefore, I'm intrigued by your
> reference to viper: is it possible to use, constructively and easily,
> viper with org-mode?  If so, any pointers on how to accomplish this
> would be fantastic!  A modal approach to writing/editing is fine with
> me.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
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Re: Re: RSI

[B Smith-Mannschott]

On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 07:50, PT<spamfilteraccount@gmail.com> wrote:
> Daniel Martins <danielemc <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Sticky keys takes some getting used to. It makes every modifier key
>> work a little like caps lock. Sounds horrible, doesn't it? Well, it's
>> not really. Basically, if you press control once, it "locks" control
>> down for the next keystroke only, after which point the keyboard
>> returns to normal. Press control twice, and it locks down until you
>> release it with a third press.
>> C-x C-f
>> Used to be: press and hold control. Press and release x. press and
>> release f. Release control.
>> Now it's Press and release control twice. Press and release x. press
>> and release f. Press and release control.
>
> I don't know which implementation you use, but with Windows' built-in
> sticky key setup there is no change compared to the usual order of keys:
>
>
> press/release ctrl, press/release x, press/release ctrl, press/release f
>
> No need to press and release control twice at the beginning, so it's the
> same number of keypresses as the usual method, you only need to pay
> attention you release the previous key before pressing the next one.

yes, you can do it this way too, in fact I usually do for two-key
sequences. You do have the option of "locking down" a modifier key by
pressing it twice. Press once more to release it. Occasionally I find
myself inputting a burst of keystrokes under the same modifier, in
cases like that it can make sense to do this. (Think of it as a
"mode", in the way that word is used among the vi crowd.) I use that
when I'm going to be repeating the same control key binding often,
i.e. when I'm isearching through a document looking at all the
matches:

[ctrl] [s] sometext [ctrl][ctrl] [s] [s] [s] [s] [s] [s] [s] ... [ctrl]

instead of

[ctrl] [s] sometext [ctrl] [s] [ctrl] [s] [ctrl] [s] [ctrl] [ctrl] [s]
[ctrl] [s] [ctrl] [s] [ctrl] [s] ...

// Ben

Re: Re: RSI

[Eric S Fraga]

At Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:34:27 -0400,
Matthew Lundin wrote:

> Well, I'm sorry to say that org-mode was the reason I abandoned viper.
> It's probably a limitation of mine, but I found it too confusing to go
> back and forth between all the C-c keys and viper's modal commands. I

Thanks Matt.  I kind of expected that to be the case.  Oh well, I'll
stick to standard emacs for now then!

eric

Re: Re: RSI

[Matthew Lundin]

Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk>, Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk>
writes:

> At Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:50:08 -0400,
> Matt Lundin wrote:
>> key. Thus, short of using viper, the only solution that works for me is
>> to use the Caps Lock key as Control. With that slight modification, I
>> find emacs controls *very* comfortable (perhaps even as comfortable than
>
> Yes, making caps lock act as control is key to using emacs without
> pain (for me).  However, it's not a full solution for some keyboards
> which don't have a caps lock key.  Therefore, I'm intrigued by your
> reference to viper: is it possible to use, constructively and easily,
> viper with org-mode?  If so, any pointers on how to accomplish this
> would be fantastic!  A modal approach to writing/editing is fine with
> me.

Well, I'm sorry to say that org-mode was the reason I abandoned viper.
It's probably a limitation of mine, but I found it too confusing to go
back and forth between all the C-c keys and viper's modal commands. I
also found the behavior of "dd" and the like to be unpredictable when
called on closed outline headings, drawers, etc. I much prefer the
behavior of C-k in org-mode's native keybindings. I imagine there are
others around here who have gotten it working.

IMO, viper is fine for relatively simple text modes. But for more
complex modes, I found it easier to stick with emacs' native
keybindings.

YMMV.

- Matt

Re: RSI

[Michael Brand]

First of all I am interested in improving the use of the modifier keys. To see what my preferences for moving them are read my (cisum) post here
http://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?pid=2552#p2552
and follow both links there.

- Michael


Samuel Wales wrote:
> Orgers,
> 
> Repetitive strain injury is real and important.
> 
> One thing that you can do is to ensure that you have a keyboard that
> has modifier keys on both sides.  You should pound a new habit into
> your cerebellum: use two hands.
> 
> For example, c-c c-o should look like this:
> 
> r hand presses ctrl
> l hand presses c
> let go
> l hand presses ctrl
> r hand presses o
> let go
> 
> This is obviously inefficient, but it is the correct thing.
> 
> Ideally, the most important c-c and c-x operations would be on the
> lhs.  That way, you can hold down ctrl and press the two keys.
> 
> Many (maybe even most) will find this idea strange.  But I urge all of
> you to try it for a few months.

Re: Re: RSI

[Dave Täht]

Michael Brand <michael.brand@alumni.ethz.ch> writes:

> First of all I am interested in improving the use of the modifier
> keys. To see what my preferences for moving them are read my (cisum)
> post here http://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?pid=2552#p2552 and
> follow both links there.

I am quite carpal, and do a few things to compensate for it. 

I map capslock to control, always.

I use abbrev-mode for stuff like "I don't wouldn't shouldn't I'd and
I'm", so I just type them lower case, without the quote, and abbrev
expands them for me. 

(I would love it if someone wrote a clever routine to figure out when to
use it's vs its, I can't ever get it right anyway. Something that would
activate at the end of a sentence, look for an obvious verb, and take a
best guess at the possessive or contraction form, but I digress...)

I use auto-capitalize-mode to handle sentence starts and, also, words like
Linux and LISP also get the correct casing treatment. (I'd love to have a
much bigger list of abbrevs, I should go looking for one)

These two modes in combination almost eliminates entirely my need to hit
the shift key.

In addition to cntrl-h being backspace, so is control-j.

In text modes, I have been known to remap ; and ' to return. I figure
for a few computer languages (like python) I could do that, too. I find
making this context switch kind of hard (and it drives other people
nuts)), however, I'd stopped doing it, until recently, because I wasn't
running my life out of emacs and other apps don't take kindly to losing
those keys.

Although I agree with many of xah lee's suggestions (
http://xahlee.org/emacs/ergonomic_emacs_keybinding.html) about remapping
emacs more ergonomically, he's wrong about meta.

The second easiest thing for me to hit, after caps-lock, is the chord of
capslock+shift. It's easier than alt or meta by far. That said, I have
only mapped that to a few things because I just can't seem to stop using
cntrl-x for commands, it's too ingrained. I'd like to save future
generations pain, however...

(Mostly where I remapped something that was normally cntrl-whatever, I made
it cntrl-shift-whatever) 

I used to have a BTC keyboard with a split spacebar, half backspace,
half space. Loved it. Why the spacebar has to be so huge and the other
keys relatively so tiny bothers me a lot. 

Given the relative flexibility of my thumbs, I wouldn't mind a triply
split keyboard spacebar - backspace, space, and control.

I keep meaning, one of these days, to figure out how to invert the upper
row of the keyboard by default. I find it much easier to type numbers on
the keypad, anyway, and hitting shift to get to !@#$%^&*() seems
redundant. 

-- 
Dave Taht
http://the-edge.blogspot.com

Re: Re: RSI

[Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga]

At Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:42:44 -0600,
Dave Täht wrote:
> I keep meaning, one of these days, to figure out how to invert the upper
> row of the keyboard by default. I find it much easier to type numbers on
> the keypad, anyway, and hitting shift to get to !@#$%^&*() seems
> redundant. 

Interesting idea (although impractical for me as two of four keyboards
I use daily do not have keypads...).  If you are using X Windows, you
could always remap trivially using xmodmap.

Re: Re: RSI

[Dave Täht]

Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk>, Eric S Fraga <ucecesf@ucl.ac.uk>
writes:

> At Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:42:44 -0600,
> Dave Täht wrote:
>> I keep meaning, one of these days, to figure out how to invert the upper
>> row of the keyboard by default. I find it much easier to type numbers on
>> the keypad, anyway, and hitting shift to get to !@#$%^&*() seems
>> redundant. 
>
> Interesting idea (although impractical for me as two of four keyboards
> I use daily do not have keypads...).  If you are using X Windows, you
> could always remap trivially using xmodmap.

What I'd like is "numlock" to do the right thing, which to me, when on,
is to not only turn on the numeric keypad, but shift the !@#$%^&*()
characters so they don't need to be shifted to reach.

And I don't know how to do that in xmodmap.

>

-- 
Dave Taht
http://the-edge.blogspot.com

Re: Re: RSI

[Eric S Fraga]

At Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:56:27 -0600,
Dave Täht wrote:
> What I'd like is "numlock" to do the right thing, which to me, when on,
> is to not only turn on the numeric keypad, but shift the !@#$%^&*()
> characters so they don't need to be shifted to reach.
> 
> And I don't know how to do that in xmodmap.

I am not sure how to make the numlock key turn into a toggle that
would make the number keys reverse their meaning.  However, you could
make the numlock key act as a modifier key which, in conjunction with
any number key, would give the number you want.  Or maybe the caps
lock key will do what you want?

Sorry I cannot be more helpful here; my use of xmodmap is limited to
remapping specific keys such as the windows keys, the alg-gr key and
the caps lock key.