From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id SK4COXEjdmP4OAAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2022 13:05:06 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id yEHgOHEjdmMAMQAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2022 13:05:05 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A78C2B562 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2022 13:05:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ovdcg-0007HN-NF; Thu, 17 Nov 2022 07:04:04 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ovdcc-0007H7-0q for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Nov 2022 07:03:59 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ovdcZ-0006Mp-FZ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Nov 2022 07:03:57 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 918EF240028 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2022 13:03:52 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1668686632; bh=+9GKuCqP0q5W+IHh6V/vbdVjz+VH5qoCqP7L85YJuro=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=ICelDwXBvJrlVahvnneXepn+jeBH159DvBji2olIUj0vduhvTphjiIdlaa/i96SLT ZEpVY5SI+l03RrUiFLAUxS97EN860jEQLfzssv74GFFRte14jo9j8MZd2nH8HF3rOg qeiXT8BDHkca078s7MSTYA56CsQWvlFSROVNT9p7EAisCoshx0znvFnXkhNEraQxpm 8GNyunQZ9S6RlDgE+leJ7SJWRkN2fFaF6ge5rK5QPaWS+3rVZNS1mCOn4miHgLa9ue Ds4mMPwIOuyZQQIHcDxLThviDEw5K+xqFC5vRoHL+WMb/pyBmqCtgCK5RhlCBKoFBe AmOH9XQyIPAnw== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NCdqR6D1Wz6tpZ; Thu, 17 Nov 2022 13:03:47 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Tim Cross Cc: Bastien , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [MAINTENANCE] Do we have any backwards-compatibility policy for third-party packages? In-Reply-To: <86wn7ubflw.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87h6z69myp.fsf@localhost> <86wn7ubflw.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 12:04:30 +0000 Message-ID: <87cz9lbxdd.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1668686705; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=QkkZQqJb08vnd+GYekseNq6L+VFmui8/O/Lyo0DEnSk=; b=CZ5ulWSpdeo3WpgkcoJ7AqKO8ALu/1b/oM9e38gfULAujBtByXdQScs5QXtDErU2LqZe9o wEqPerByak8qAZu4EhxK9/tuUaM5V3bgvir/hNR7IxAAbzWlEhoce86cyScDz6EENpbm6D hc+PrbpieKIW2XD7d0njfO5ZCRDBcKR9zQgZOFDHdIUfcYatPS/KK7JXXP3sTf6/5Q8dh0 numJvoykoX4lOj2htFMiV/h8UoyXhVdnIXu6WwPlYUvrBneVMk9eHtsr6Nnm/j7+SVXJgZ qwC1tXMI9idBbssj4IQQL+uZN6aVUKP5p+8GaxMDRqa9zuEeRQckEmEdBN0tXw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1668686705; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=hLRYbvc5Q6Qhai4+MIC5gtAx4c5aYKyJSdmSoLtfQvtt3upM+SEVQ+zlPcY95Y1lYhWzGm Rsn6yjq33h0ixENFi/75vOkWasRJKy3xTSsk1jetKsYfT6+70rm35rJpSyF8KjxRsqOc01 yMeHlTdrjTD3IcU6rAX6Rvway+uT+wOJinjMScfYIVb2aZbkIZJGoj1whZU+DUI0bAHrA9 BM0Xy/Wc/odzyQpXmXwmAN4qSmlKh5/rmLgFqsuzu06YscskRVtgHLCwbzOyJ7jSUe5w+3 hmJJCCxgcxcUihCeGFO1Az4xyBUL1l4qJRd7xLz4rCHkKZnkKf04Ff+8wS+cUw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=ICelDwXB; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.53 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=ICelDwXB; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: A78C2B562 X-Spam-Score: -2.53 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: 5J/AlFuXIuaD > It might be worthwhile defining what is meant by 3rd party packages. > > For example, ob-scheme relying on geiser as a 3rd party package is one > thing. Org roam is another type of 3rd party package. I think they need > different approaches. The first is about our (org) interface to them and > the latter is about their (org roam) interface with org. Sorry for not being clear. I was referring to third-party packages Org optionally depends on. Like geiser or citeproc or engrave-faces. > For the former (e.g. geiser type), I don't think backwards compatibility > is as important. Thanks to package.el and GNU ELPA/NONGNU ELPA, it is > fairly trivial to update to the current version. We just need to support > the current version. Yes, but what if, say, the newest geiser version no longer supports the Emacs version Org still supports? > For the latter (e.g. org-roam), backwards compatibility is much more > important. Org needs to provide as stable a public API for such packages > as possible. It may even be worthwhile separating the API into a > public/external API and an internal/private API. The former would be as > stable as possible and when changes are made, all efforts to provide > backwards compatibility are made. The latter is also stable, but more > subject to change. It is the API intended for internal org use. If > external packages use it, it is at their own risk. We would still try to > keep it stable, but with less of a guarantee and we may not provide > backwards compatibility if doing so was going to cause too much > complexity or maintenance burden etc. That's what we already do. I mean, https://bzg.fr/en/the-software-maintainers-pledge/ :) Public/private is the usual org-* vs. org--*. We never break org-*. Even if we do, we first deprecate things. > The big thing here is IMO avoiding surprise. We probably should add a > section to the 'Hacking' section of the manual which outlines our > position wrt backwards compatibility and API (public/private) and change > etc. I think most people expect change (even if they might not like > it). What they don't like is unexpected change. As long as we are > conservative and communicate change when necessary, we will likely be > OK. I hope that we never had unexpected changes. Isn't it for granted? I felt like it was always the case in Org and Emacs forever. It feels so obvious that I cannot even figure out how we could clarify it in the manual. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at