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[180.150.91.8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n85sm8525275pfd.170.2021.04.24.22.52.39 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 24 Apr 2021 22:52:40 -0700 (PDT) References: <87pmyuyssi.fsf@gmail.com> <87v98b0yvm.fsf@gnu.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.4.15; emacs 28.0.50 From: Timothy To: Bastien Subject: Contributor Steward role (was Re: Concerns about community contributor support) In-reply-to: <87v98b0yvm.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <87a6pmx656.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2021 13:52:37 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::42f; envelope-from=tecosaur@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x42f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: org-mode-email Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1619330021; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=gVFMCV6Ex/+q9N8cIDc/ezqWp+r3S5pp5tmyxmA3HVs=; b=vBg1PPt+uO4XhUsDx3s5Klc6AfwfCQHRi9tRzDhqMW+Z5j8259d/ur5i+0/R7623l1aghf TbEqhRcgqr0/iuvc285BklCwegUODE/+dNxHFhwYeRWDajOj4NpSsM4GWnIl2uiEBkZALW n+sZr6OLns0JS+8H1kYm2Ozr+qNdfgBBWZN163teEztBThI1HBS7BJ3fp3RX0r+DRri/Es IRm/x52/+pjWg8sHyB2JFCpGFndGiISwAZrw26kZ6B7A4uvZYGAStkiLJpdmADP+gb2ZCk Vxdb2G9dVbbOCnm2pObKsdVOJbiNaQMbz7lKWrxqEreYxMvMJZUSDi4SC6cj5Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1619330021; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=J/tHi/Sy4LCqgqDWEqSU22kFFmmeLWL4C9CpiJBPIaf8k3OXSYxmgRLDp9/0Qy+sgRm787 9PJFvgtegLl0DP7Y/cqAXkyt9YE5BO9EDYQRCgdf0oJXdxdXVektKLtbtad47ccKjg1pgn YOlgyMjQyHpWF9VSR+W9OfUaJtncUO+xYeE8D23iXL5RDcgylIdfDNGLGzXn5m9Tn5ZMSG 5I+VRJVyErGRbPBDBBlzbae4oTFcfJFQq1cpZw45iAWUeuCK9fVByUqBGfSX7/c84/cxmm vuLSF4Ut9NFK3c5lQ4TMf2khmqv5A4LzIFLYkHGFC5AYGaPjI/81xhQXL+L9+A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b="TlJoUY/9"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.14 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b="TlJoUY/9"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 08AB319B6A X-Spam-Score: -3.14 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: oiJk09fjhkK3 Dear Bastien, Thank you for your well-thought-out reply. With regards to the question your email ends with: > What do you think? Would you be willing to take this role? > If not, that's perfectly okay, I'll send a call for help. The short answer is "yes, mostly". The long answer follows :P I also think that regardless it would be good to put out a call asking if anyone else is interested/willing to do this: I'm going to be busy sometimes, a reduced workload is clearly preferable, and less should slip through the cracks :) Bastien writes: > Dear Timothy, > > thanks for raising this points so carefully, they are important. > > I see three distinct problems: > > A. The lack of response and/or follow-up when people contribute by > sending bug reports or patches on the list. This is something I'm definitely happy to help with. > B. The lack of maintainance on documenting the contribution process > and the correct expectations for future contributors. I'm happy to document this, but I don't know what expectations should be set. I think this is a matter that should be decided by consensus among the current/active maintainers. > C. The inherent difficulty to move the Org codebase forward. I think there are some things that can be done to improve the structure and system of contribution/development, but I'm waiting on external developments and it will take a fair bit of my time to properly implement a prototype. ETA 1-2 years. > I won't comment on (C). For (A) and (B), I suggest appointing a > "contributor steward" with these responsibilities: > > 1. Maintain updates.orgmode.org (i.e. make sure it is accurate.) > 2. Maintain the documentation for contributors. > 3. Help contributors enhancing their patches. > 4. Try to reproduce bugs (and confirm them for updates.orgmode.org) > 5. Make sure patch contributors are not left with no answer. > > You started (1), which is really appreciated. I'll try to keep this up :) > Tim and others mentioned (2), and that's certainly needed too. See my comment on (B) above. > (3) has historically been the role of the maintainer and of the core > contributors, but helping with this is very welcome: knowing the doc > at https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html by heart, educating > contributors on the commit messages, etc. This all helps. I can give this a go :) > (4) is perhaps the most daunting task: I even think we could have > someone only dedicated to this very important task. Just count the > number of times Nicolas says "I cannot reproduce this." Each time, > there is a real bug that is *not* fixed... Mmmm, even if I say I'm willing to do this, I suspect this is something I'd by nature push off enough that I'd frequently forget about this =F0=9F= =98=85. > (5) is not about systematically welcome patch submitters with a > message (that would be annoying) but to monitor updates.orgmode.org > and decide what to do with a patch that didn't receive feedback: > either say thanks and ping the list for why you think the patch > deserves more attention, or thanks and dismiss the patch, or another > answer. This is how I see this two. As I indicated at the start, I'm happy to do this, but I think a second person would help ensure that nobody slips through the cracks. -- Timothy