From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0r.migadu.com with LMTPS id 8E7rGyg3jWB1TwEALuJCtg (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 01 May 2021 13:10:32 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id AM+MFyg3jWAZTwAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 01 May 2021 11:10:32 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D24FB101F2 for ; Sat, 1 May 2021 13:10:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:39094 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcnW2-0004A6-Rq for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 07:10:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35328) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcnV3-00048k-Ib for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 07:09:29 -0400 Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.197]:51689) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcnUz-0006bZ-VI for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 07:09:28 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 185.131.40.67 Received: from localhost (40-67.ipv4.commingeshautdebit.fr [185.131.40.67]) (Authenticated sender: admin@nicolasgoaziou.fr) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2E94E1C000A; Sat, 1 May 2021 11:09:20 +0000 (UTC) From: Nicolas Goaziou To: Denis Maier Subject: Re: wip-cite status question and feedback References: <874ktu8gr9.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <20210324182751.GA8721@atlantis> <87czuzprmh.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87sg3neo0k.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87eef35h7n.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87a6pr5g4m.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <877dkt2pce.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <878s57fubm.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87mttfuck9.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <897892c5-db81-af4e-f265-c89f9d4974b1@mailbox.org> Mail-Followup-To: Denis Maier , Bruce D'Arcus , =?utf-8?Q?Andr=C3=A1s?= Simonyi , "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" Date: Sat, 01 May 2021 13:09:19 +0200 In-Reply-To: <897892c5-db81-af4e-f265-c89f9d4974b1@mailbox.org> (Denis Maier's message of "Fri, 30 Apr 2021 23:47:56 +0200") Message-ID: <87a6peu2w0.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.197; envelope-from=mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr; helo=relay5-d.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" , Bruce D'Arcus , =?utf-8?Q?Andr=C3=A1s?= Simonyi Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1619867431; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=B+1kGkSvg6NwyqQxr0w59lcHffKUbXOwPoaeRQAtF54=; b=MhbeJkplA45NQ6USfAAbKonogKOhTc8ic/c3h5bspKPyD+rSjY5g6tRoStgPIsWtgbvzfL Lxmerd5jwBU7BJuT6ZNZS9m1HCZDgysYvIDhER1SCsHfgk8pZAqwC9ayQ6DZOHGZ6dBG97 vlsH0VAg6U9X6frDT08ls98jN6WBbV2oSzE50pEaEQt9W6jnavwEZQhHf1XkUJ/+lrDt5t U/F0cq2W49b303LWBX4rVUt8A9ASzZB3jZOdh0BfMDl4pKdF5AaffBlfZEykb75Qn7CA9A V9tMOoiN38aoJExyYUSZHctBv69XNCDVIWeO2tsRLBwfnrrZpkH/52rj7ddqQw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1619867431; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=kqNHSgnxQl6ukMuoPd0ETzzMXI2n/q/kuk9/W5Y5r2Hj7qs6ba4m3tsHWUMuoqkDvvx4rV V8yE/sy1iFvl/XQOwfmHqbhyska2136GGvHPPRD4WYHUcnqznw1d8uHhRYnGwywgigausU Zo+vildFMnL7KftbTqYimWPjmRJhlY1oSlslmfFKxjstdFw7TlRe18HfumksbCTt6J2dVX Nki1K1k460YZ1Gci9bZm7ti1VB69H7zsvhZBUBJ90LnhF+VbGyVl0qEzROd0+HuecdTfWT azVQmIaJAK1TWwJkChQ/ufk2ABhRjWlLBKKy8kPy6/tA97CJAWcuU0hoNG7I4Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.96 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: D24FB101F2 X-Spam-Score: -0.96 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: GHvh5AMyM6Oh Hello, Denis Maier writes: > However, as I've said before, this behaviour is only correct in > American English. TO quuote the Chicago Manual of Style 6.9: "In an > alternative system, sometimes called British Style (as described in > the /New Oxford Style Manual ...) ... only those punctuation points > that appeared in the original material are included within the > quotation marks." The same would be correct for German. Do you have an > idea if/how this could be implemented? This punctuation dance is done through an optional argument in `org-cite-wrap-citation' (off by default). It is up to the citation processors to activate it, according to their own rules, e.g., after checking "language" keyword with (plist-get info :language) or simply by letting users decide what to do through a defcustom. I don't think we can do more in that area. > Again the Chicago Manual, 6.10: "Colons and semicolons---unlike > periods and commas---follow closing quotation marks; question marks > and exclamation points follow closing quoation marks unless they > belong within the quoted matter." I understand colons and semicolons should not move within the quote. But should they be moved before the note? I.e., should the following happen ... foo" [cite:@a]; => ... foo";[1] or should it be? ... foo" [cite:@a]; => ... foo"[1]; IIUC, commas should also be moved within the quotes: ... foo" [cite:@a], => ... foo,"[1] Am I correct? Concerning question marks and exclamation points, I assume we can safely consider that if they belong to the quoted matter, they are already included in the quotes. So the only case left to consider is the following: ... foo" [cite:@a]? => ... foo"?[1] Is that right? > I don't know if there is a general rule and how much of this should be > configurable. How costly would that be? I'd like to avoid any configuration variable in "oc.el", which is only meant to be as the toolbox for processor developers. However, if required, configuration would happen through an optional argument, possibly the same as the one activating the punctuation dance. I.e., when non-nil, it can only provide a list of punctuation characters to consider moving around, with rules explaining if they should be included in a preceding quote. Since this would be backward compatible, we don't need to implement it for now if the use-case is, at this point, purely hypothetical. Thank you for the feedback! Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou