From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id oKhsCRs9qGNMVAEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2022 13:07:55 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id 0CpcCBs9qGMfHgAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2022 13:07:55 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BC0E3DD0E for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2022 13:07:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p9PmY-0005E8-Dr; Sun, 25 Dec 2022 07:07:10 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p9PmW-0005Cp-9D for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Dec 2022 07:07:08 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p9PmP-0008Rd-DH for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Dec 2022 07:07:06 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01702240206 for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2022 13:06:58 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1671970019; bh=Y97MQShlLCPLDhcUoaWNs4jwsk3PQe2G4XMt/DG/6gc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=QQxv7tG24itNHbCISX0lKGZ4vQnLyUWVgCkBtSaioes1Vkx0oQ5M6UhQmpPmbnVy0 l4k13Y6gln0uXxAhN70cU1P+kO2HI10bqn6xAM+c6SMYmvTiPoEC5YJmXd9Gqhq4Yc A01RAJAaJeQPIY4DcrCyAPdrYKTI8AmFnpT+anFOz671dmF+6Z/obgTpC+q2doeeLO 7GGXtb3fN1TCHEKqfhgvMLDu1PmnD+S5p8WcLF+M5J2VWu0YtXj3vcWf8qzX7/3yDX +ALzGijtfGvyw0T0zeuIOrmXB4uD4M8K5Dxb63wf0O/Qr/PWpT5oHGZJi78GN2UTy/ TnInf7/mrEVWg== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Ng05Y33qnz9rxD; Sun, 25 Dec 2022 13:06:57 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Jean Louis Cc: andre duarte bueno , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Export Org with Org concept -- Re: Problems with C-c C-e file.org, In-Reply-To: References: <878rj469sk.fsf@localhost> Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2022 12:06:48 +0000 Message-ID: <87a63bsn53.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, GAPPY_SUBJECT=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1671970074; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=J/N0PUV/4J5i82TnxK5tmsBOav0hiIXoZB77u3+jMgyXpM8SMVuoHLA9VYcWeDZcUDS4sD i4n6DQ2tn/+GaCMc/IVNAP1/MrVnBLLCVunPIg042uySUEZuM96F9cZEQaheXyB75V/4Ka blzr0YJcCKdgYWMUA7Sn5GcMj7/qGT1ltM5FbeyVBrlU9dStJiNg9Z/99E6qMv7j3wv7ZE UCIwJ99d3d0qJugyQsouXQaMhpVfkSAt9V2fBWdFWnoRumtIoOL92P0lrdcpvTPBpt2zxv vRwkA522oOl/TnHJkE4h3JVE8EGDztZfLDktlNT2kjA8Jku1V22637R7U59zqg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=QQxv7tG2; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1671970074; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=L6oB8nkapI5nUifIotR4KqFibH7kxe9IrWgcJyZvJY4=; b=YTPsd3N5m2lFXCC1mA/p9GvKXaSDAyGk3u+gB9uEgvCAConBUdp7KKs36N/liq3tX3gFAF OVSUa091GW/S52ZWX9v4kFjRL3mJixcc4s2HK65iv2vWzptVBLiCN5LUd4UWsLK2E/wzoB Bg0MHI+Qa602Eu/5lJ5i1tiGJMF+y1CV0avR+pTth+Ic0Tio2I6BK81VyQFE895MevLhXP PCtNXJQUb2f9xqO5dZ8EiBizxT9U7Acq0bD2GfZIdv8pyCkyn7tb6rgMzlyeP0WDBS50uG RB5pqeGhsYdJc1FRNaW4xjc1NQb53logeEJL97KQ7QSuzwjW81GFZYWxiWIYfA== X-Spam-Score: -7.06 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 8BC0E3DD0E Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=QQxv7tG2; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -7.06 X-TUID: 4zfhOQiD4HBb Jean Louis writes: >> > Apparently C-c C-e is capturing all events and not just keyboard >> > events! > > That is not first complaint, right? I would say it is obvious that > such interface is not user friendly. Yes and no. Some users do not like it. Some users prefer the existing one. Conclusion: even if we implement something better, it should be backwards compatible. >> This is because we use `read-char-exclusive'. > > Don't use what is blocking Emacs. Apart from Org mode I have never > seen a package that blocks Emacs that I cannot even inspect keys. gnus, reftex, ediff. (I do not mean that we should not improve Org in this regard) >> Alternative menu designs have been discussed in >> https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/AM9PR09MB497743D21FA1C908392413F496D99@AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com/ > > I did not find anything on that link. There is code prototype down in the thread. https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/AM9PR09MB49770F57F33859770649C7C896AF9@AM9PR09MB4977.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com/ > Here is the concept of using Org similar buffers to export Org > buffers: > > GNU Emacs package: rcd-org-export.el -- use Org to export Org: > https://gnu.support/gnu-emacs/packages/GNU-Emacs-package-rcd-org-export-el-use-Org-to-export-Org-76272.html > > It is made for you, as concept, as I have already mentioned the > concept before months. > > In general, this is Org mode, so why not use Org mode to export Org > mode? > > See the video demonstration: > > https://gnu.support/files/emacs/packages/rcd-org-export/2022-12-19-23:36:10.ogv Thanks for the effort, but I'm afraid that it is not something we want in Org core from maintenance perspective. Would be welcome as a third-party package though. Why: 1. Your package is introducing a new formatting for menus and new interaction paradigm. This is not backwards-compatible. If we add the package like yours into Org core, it will mean maintaining yet another piece of menu code in Org. Org is already huge and maintaining a separate menu package _in addition_ to all the existing staff is not a good idea. 2. We are moving towards removing menu-specific code from Org in general in favour of the existing menu frameworks. In particular, we plan to change Org menus to use transient. See https://orgmode.org/list/8c364693bf6856e60cdd3e8b63ab0c9284d16733.camel@heagren.com Note that transient allows menu buffer navigation (C-s) 3. Ideally, we should also adopt the existing menu layouts using transient. If not possible, we should consolidate the menu code into a separate simple library. Something just enough to replicate the existing functionality. With minimal maintenance. The thread I linked is one of such efforts. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at