Org mode and emacs email

Org mode and emacs email

[Simon Brown]

Hi all,

I currently use mutt as my email client but I'm looking for greater
emacs integration and better html support. Org mode supports at least
gnus, vm and wanderlust. Can anybody advise on the relative pros and
cons? My main restriction is that I don't want to break my mutt setup,
so the client must be able to work with my current collection of mbox
files. I also have 3 IMAP accounts. Using emacs 23 and current org-mode.

Simon
-- 
Simon Brown

Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Richard Riley]

Simon Brown <simon@cliffestones.demon.co.uk> writes:

> Hi all,
>
> I currently use mutt as my email client but I'm looking for greater
> emacs integration and better html support. Org mode supports at least
> gnus, vm and wanderlust. Can anybody advise on the relative pros and
> cons? My main restriction is that I don't want to break my mutt setup,
> so the client must be able to work with my current collection of mbox
> files. I also have 3 IMAP accounts. Using emacs 23 and current org-mode.
>
> Simon

This is pretty "fanboi" of me but its really simple : use Gnus. It can
do imap fine (you can always move to using a local dovecot
server and use offlineimap to sync if performance is a problem).

While I personally detest html email of any kind I understand that we
need to, at least, receive it ;) Gnus does that nicely with w3m
rendering if necessary.

I use maildir : you could always (should you want of course) simply move
all messages from an mbox group to a maildir inside gnus. While I cant
attest to Gnus and mbox, the documentation indicates full support.

Mairix also works well in gnus for fast indexed mail search.

The only thing I would say is that Gnus  can be quite daunting to start
with but if you're familiar with Emacs and Elisp then there's nothing
insurmountable and its a question of getting the basics right at the
start. It also has quite amazingly (complex!) powerful spam handling
which I finally got working only recently...

Nothing really "relative" there but my gut feeling is that the other
clients are pretty minimally supported these days and not in the same
league regarding general functionality but obviously have their own
strengths - Wanderlust in particular has far better Imap support I am
told. But the person who told me that also claimed that Gnus could not
do IMAP which is not correct.

Gnus also works well with things like gpg-agent and gnupgp for reading of encrypted
files. e.g My local imap connection

,----
|        (add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods 
|            '(nnimap "mymail"
|            (nnimap-stream network)
|            (nnimap-address "offlineimap")
|            (nnimap-authinfo-file "~/.authinfo.gpg")
|            (nnir-search-engine imap)))
`----

Feel free to drop me a line when you get started if you need a shove.

Oh ...  And it reads News ....

Re: Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Simon Brown]

* Richard Riley (rileyrgdev@gmail.com) wrote:
> This is pretty "fanboi" of me but its really simple : use Gnus. It can
> do imap fine (you can always move to using a local dovecot
> server and use offlineimap to sync if performance is a problem).
I've had a quick look at the gnus manual and it seems to depend upon
importing your mail which rules it out for me. I'm not prepared to
start collecting mail in a mail reader specific way. Most of my mail
is collected by fetchmail, the IMAP accounts are quite low traffic.

Simon
-- 
Simon Brown

Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Łukasz Stelmach]

Simon Brown <simon@cliffestones.demon.co.uk> writes:

> * Richard Riley (rileyrgdev@gmail.com) wrote:
>> This is pretty "fanboi" of me but its really simple : use Gnus. It can
>> do imap fine (you can always move to using a local dovecot
>> server and use offlineimap to sync if performance is a problem).
> I've had a quick look at the gnus manual and it seems to depend upon
> importing your mail which rules it out for me. I'm not prepared to
> start collecting mail in a mail reader specific way. Most of my mail
> is collected by fetchmail, the IMAP accounts are quite low traffic.

This is not a problem. I've used (or do I still do it?) gnus with
fetchmail witho no trouble whatsoever. As it's been stated geting Gnus
set and ready may take some time but its worth it. Gnus supports mbox
quite well with nnfolder backend.

-- 
Miłego dnia,
Łukasz Stelmach

Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Henri-Paul Indiogine]

Simon Brown <simon@cliffestones.demon.co.uk> writes:
> I currently use mutt as my email client but I'm looking for greater
> emacs integration and better html support. Org mode supports at least
> gnus, vm and wanderlust. Can anybody advise on the relative pros and
> cons? My main restriction is that I don't want to break my mutt setup,
> so the client must be able to work with my current collection of mbox
> files. I also have 3 IMAP accounts. Using emacs 23 and current org-mode.

It took me a looong time to set up gnus after having tried all other
email clients for Emacs.  The nice thing is that gnus comes with Emacs
and so you do not have to worry about additional installations.

I also like that I can dispense with .gnus and place all my gnus
customizations in my .emacs file.  

The cons is that gnus is a big nasty beast.  Still I would have to learn VM or
Wanderlust, so you might as well learn gnus and be done with it.


-- 
Henri-Paul Indiogine
Email: hindiogine@gmail.com
Skype: hindiogine
Website: http://www.coe.tamu.edu/~enrico

Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Scott Brim]

Simon Brown <simon <at> cliffestones.demon.co.uk> writes:

> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I currently use mutt as my email client but I'm looking for greater
> emacs integration and better html support. Org mode supports at least
> gnus, vm and wanderlust. Can anybody advise on the relative pros and
> cons? My main restriction is that I don't want to break my mutt setup,
> so the client must be able to work with my current collection of mbox
> files. I also have 3 IMAP accounts. Using emacs 23 and current org-mode.
> 
> Simon

Wanderlust seems best at IMAP -- I would go there first, but if you've tolerated 
mutt's IMAP support this long, maybe you don't need good IMAP support.  VM 
has nice integration with w3m for HTML.  IMHO don't start on gnus if you've 
never used it.  Then there's MEW, which is also a good one.  They all work with 
mbox-style mail files.

Re: Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Simon Brown]

* Scott Brim (swb@employees.org) wrote:
> Wanderlust seems best at IMAP -- I would go there first, but if you've tolerated 
> mutt's IMAP support this long, maybe you don't need good IMAP support.  VM 
> has nice integration with w3m for HTML.  IMHO don't start on gnus if you've 
> never used it.  Then there's MEW, which is also a good one.  They all work with 
> mbox-style mail files.
I'm trying Wanderlust, but I've started to wonder if it's worth the
effort. I've moved from mbox to Maildirs but wanderlust doesn't seem
to be able to recognise the subdirectories. I don't want to be
changing config everytime I change a list subscription. I also have
yet to get it to successfully autheniticate with any imap server. 

I've got nowhere near trying the org integration. I might try
installing vm 8.1 but at the moment I've already squandered far too
much time on this.

Thanks

Simon
-- 
Simon Brown

Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Richard Riley]

Simon Brown <simon@cliffestones.demon.co.uk> writes:

> * Richard Riley (rileyrgdev@gmail.com) wrote:
>> This is pretty "fanboi" of me but its really simple : use Gnus. It can
>> do imap fine (you can always move to using a local dovecot
>> server and use offlineimap to sync if performance is a problem).
> I've had a quick look at the gnus manual and it seems to depend upon
> importing your mail which rules it out for me. I'm not prepared to
> start collecting mail in a mail reader specific way. Most of my mail
> is collected by fetchmail, the IMAP accounts are quite low traffic.
>
> Simon

I'm not sure I understand. Just point it at your mbox. Nothing to
import. Nothing at all is mail reader specific with regard to your
actual email as far as I know. Or did I misunderstand when you mentioned
importing email?

Even if you use fetchmail (I do too), you can fetchmail into maildir
(for example) and have something like dovecot serve it via IMAP. This
can be really handy for remote access.

Re: Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Eric Schulte]

At this point it feels somewhat more like voting rather than a
discussion, but I feel compelled to say...

  +1 for gnus!

Gnus has far and away the biggest user base, the best support, and is
the most actively developed (as far as I can tell VM -- which I used for
a couple of years-- is a dead project).  Gnus is distributed with Emacs
and all of it's mime and message handling libraries are distributed with
Emacs.

The config can be daunting if you don't have any help, however there are
many friendly people on this list who I'm sure would be happy to share
their gnus imap config (please feel free to contact me off list), and
once you have the basics working it's really a joy to use.

Just my personal subjective biased opinion :) -- Eric

Simon Brown <simon@cliffestones.demon.co.uk> writes:

> * Scott Brim (swb@employees.org) wrote:
>> Wanderlust seems best at IMAP -- I would go there first, but if you've tolerated 
>> mutt's IMAP support this long, maybe you don't need good IMAP support.  VM 
>> has nice integration with w3m for HTML.  IMHO don't start on gnus if you've 
>> never used it.  Then there's MEW, which is also a good one.  They all work with 
>> mbox-style mail files.
> I'm trying Wanderlust, but I've started to wonder if it's worth the
> effort. I've moved from mbox to Maildirs but wanderlust doesn't seem
> to be able to recognise the subdirectories. I don't want to be
> changing config everytime I change a list subscription. I also have
> yet to get it to successfully autheniticate with any imap server. 
>
> I've got nowhere near trying the org integration. I might try
> installing vm 8.1 but at the moment I've already squandered far too
> much time on this.
>
> Thanks
>
> Simon

Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Richard Riley]

Simon Brown <simon@cliffestones.demon.co.uk> writes:

> * Scott Brim (swb@employees.org) wrote:
>> Wanderlust seems best at IMAP -- I would go there first, but if you've tolerated 
>> mutt's IMAP support this long, maybe you don't need good IMAP support.  VM 
>> has nice integration with w3m for HTML.  IMHO don't start on gnus if you've 
>> never used it.  Then there's MEW, which is also a good one.  They all work with 
>> mbox-style mail files.
> I'm trying Wanderlust, but I've started to wonder if it's worth the
> effort. I've moved from mbox to Maildirs but wanderlust doesn't seem
> to be able to recognise the subdirectories. I don't want to be

Maybe its like dovecot  - the "." prefix on the mailboxes.

> changing config everytime I change a list subscription. I also have

What do you mean by that? Why would you need to reconfigure each and
every time?

> yet to get it to successfully autheniticate with any imap server. 
>
> I've got nowhere near trying the org integration. I might try
> installing vm 8.1 but at the moment I've already squandered far too
> much time on this.

If you decided to move to maildir I'm wondering why you then decided to
use Wanderlust. Do you have your own IMAP server serving up from a maildir?

>
> Thanks
>
> Simon

Gnus has excellent maildir support ...

Re: Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Manuel Hermenegildo]

I have to say in VM's defense that it is working very well for me (and
has supported IMAP for a very long time) and there are indeed people
working actively it. The old 7.19 version has indeed been frozen for a
long time, but I am using the latest versions out of the repo on
Launchpad and Savannah,

https://launchpad.net/vm
https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/viewmail/ 

with emacs 23. While it is clear that it does not have a huge team
behind it, as you can see there Uday S. Reddy and Ulrich Mueller are
quite active maintainers (there were 28 commits in March, for
example).

VM provides all the functionality I need (including very good MIME and
html support, interacting very well with w3w) with an interface that
is very natural to emacs users (similar to rmail) and which avoids the
complications of gnus.  There is a good interface to maildir for
example, and also to org mode. The virtual folder mechanism is really
very good.

The only missing thing for me is direct support for maildir but the VM
maintainers are currently working on it.

Manuel

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Manuel Hermenegildo                     | Prof., C.S.Dept., T.U. Madrid (UPM)
 Director, IMDEA Software and CLIP Group | +34-91-336-7435 (W) -352-4819 (Fax)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Dan Davison]

"Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes:

> At this point it feels somewhat more like voting rather than a
> discussion, but I feel compelled to say...
>
>   +1 for gnus!

Hi Simon,

I use gnus, and received help from people on the list. Here's a small
contribution if you do get going with it:

The listing of emails in the summary buffer will look *terrible* with
the default settings. But you can make it look really nice using unicode
characters for arrows etc. (Example settings below, screenshot at
http://www.princeton.edu/~ddavison/gnus.png)

(Plus, if you use gnus you don't have to see these ridiculous
Kindergarten-style dotted lines and scissors that people put in
emails :) )

Dan

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
;; http://groups.google.com/group/gnu.emacs.gnus/browse_thread/thread/a673a74356e7141f
(when window-system
  (setq gnus-sum-thread-tree-indent "  ")
  (setq gnus-sum-thread-tree-root "") ;; "● ")
  (setq gnus-sum-thread-tree-false-root "") ;; "◯ ")
  (setq gnus-sum-thread-tree-single-indent "") ;; "◎ ")
  (setq gnus-sum-thread-tree-vertical        "│")
  (setq gnus-sum-thread-tree-leaf-with-other "├─► ")
  (setq gnus-sum-thread-tree-single-leaf     "╰─► "))

(setq gnus-summary-line-format
      (concat
       "%0{%U%R%z%}"
       "%3{│%}" "%1{%d%}" "%3{│%}" ;; date
       "  "
       "%4{%-20,20f%}"               ;; name
       "  "
       "%3{│%}"
       " "
       "%1{%B%}"
       "%s\n"))

(setq gnus-summary-display-arrow t)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---



>
> Gnus has far and away the biggest user base, the best support, and is
> the most actively developed (as far as I can tell VM -- which I used for
> a couple of years-- is a dead project).  Gnus is distributed with Emacs
> and all of it's mime and message handling libraries are distributed with
> Emacs.
>
> The config can be daunting if you don't have any help, however there are
> many friendly people on this list who I'm sure would be happy to share
> their gnus imap config (please feel free to contact me off list), and
> once you have the basics working it's really a joy to use.
>
> Just my personal subjective biased opinion :) -- Eric
>
> Simon Brown <simon@cliffestones.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>> * Scott Brim (swb@employees.org) wrote:
>>> Wanderlust seems best at IMAP -- I would go there first, but if you've tolerated 
>>> mutt's IMAP support this long, maybe you don't need good IMAP support.  VM 
>>> has nice integration with w3m for HTML.  IMHO don't start on gnus if you've 
>>> never used it.  Then there's MEW, which is also a good one.  They all work with 
>>> mbox-style mail files.
>> I'm trying Wanderlust, but I've started to wonder if it's worth the
>> effort. I've moved from mbox to Maildirs but wanderlust doesn't seem
>> to be able to recognise the subdirectories. I don't want to be
>> changing config everytime I change a list subscription. I also have
>> yet to get it to successfully autheniticate with any imap server. 
>>
>> I've got nowhere near trying the org integration. I might try
>> installing vm 8.1 but at the moment I've already squandered far too
>> much time on this.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Simon
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Gary]

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 12:22:10PM +0100, Simon Brown wrote:
> I currently use mutt as my email client but I'm looking for greater
> emacs integration and better html support.

Allegedly mutt runs okay inside emacs, e.g. from an eshell. I know that
doesn't help with your greater emacs integration (what do you want to
do, exactly?) and better HTML support (why would you want this? ;) but -
without wanting to start anything - I much prefer mutt to gnus (or
anything else, for that matter).

Re: Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Henri-Paul Indiogine]

Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk> writes:
> http://www.princeton.edu/~ddavison/gnus.png)

Thanks for the .gnus code.  Actually, I do not use .gnus and place all
in .emacs but I do not think that matters.

I run Ubuntu Karmic + Gnu Emacs 23.  Both updated

Anyway, now my summary buffer looks very much like the image that you placed
on-line. However I have some differences:

1. I do not have the arrows.  Does that have to do with some unicode
settings that I may have to change?

2. This is my old "gnus-summary-line-format":

'(gnus-summary-line-format "%U%R%z%&user-date;%(%[: %-23,23f%]%) %s")

I liked the "&user-date" because it would display the time of today's
emails that dates for older ones.

3. There are also color differences:  I do not have the dates colored
blue as you have.  My subject lines are colored green, red, white and
blue according to the marks that they have.  I find that useful and
would like to keep those colors.

Thanks,

-- 
Henri-Paul Indiogine
Email: hindiogine@gmail.com
Skype: hindiogine
Website: http://www.coe.tamu.edu/~enrico

Re: Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Dan Davison]

Henri-Paul Indiogine <hindiogine@gmail.com> writes:

> Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk> writes:
>> http://www.princeton.edu/~ddavison/gnus.png)
>
> Thanks for the .gnus code.  Actually, I do not use .gnus and place all
> in .emacs but I do not think that matters.
>
> I run Ubuntu Karmic + Gnu Emacs 23.  Both updated
>
> Anyway, now my summary buffer looks very much like the image that you placed
> on-line. However I have some differences:
>
> 1. I do not have the arrows.  Does that have to do with some unicode
> settings that I may have to change?

Ah, sorry, I think I should have included the following two variable
settings:

(setq gnus-thread-sort-functions
      '(gnus-thread-sort-by-number
	gnus-thread-sort-by-most-recent-date))

(setq gnus-summary-thread-gathering-function
      'gnus-gather-threads-by-references)

Does that do it?

[...]

> 3. There are also color differences:  I do not have the dates colored
> blue as you have.  My subject lines are colored green, red, white and
> blue according to the marks that they have.  I find that useful and
> would like to keep those colors.

These settings don't alter the faces, just the text. The colours in my
image are whatever color-theme-charcoal-black gave me (in the
color-themes package.)

Dan

So the full settings, including the ones I originally posted are:


--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(setq gnus-thread-sort-functions
      '(gnus-thread-sort-by-number
	gnus-thread-sort-by-most-recent-date))

(setq gnus-summary-thread-gathering-function
      'gnus-gather-threads-by-references)

(setq gnus-summary-line-format
      (concat
       "%0{%U%R%z%}"
       "%3{│%}" "%1{%d%}" "%3{│%}" ;; date
       "  "
       "%4{%-20,20f%}"               ;; name
       "  "
       "%3{│%}"
       " "
       "%1{%B%}"
       "%s\n"))
(setq gnus-summary-display-arrow t)
;; http://groups.google.com/group/gnu.emacs.gnus/browse_thread/thread/a673a74356e7141f
(when window-system
  (setq gnus-sum-thread-tree-indent "  ")
  (setq gnus-sum-thread-tree-root "") ;; "● ")
  (setq gnus-sum-thread-tree-false-root "") ;; "◯ ")
  (setq gnus-sum-thread-tree-single-indent "") ;; "◎ ")
  (setq gnus-sum-thread-tree-vertical        "│")
  (setq gnus-sum-thread-tree-leaf-with-other "├─► ")
  (setq gnus-sum-thread-tree-single-leaf     "╰─► "))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---


>
> Thanks,

Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Leo]

On 2010-03-30 18:34 +0100, Manuel Hermenegildo wrote:
> I have to say in VM's defense that it is working very well for me (and
> has supported IMAP for a very long time) and there are indeed people
> working actively it. The old 7.19 version has indeed been frozen for a
> long time, but I am using the latest versions out of the repo on
> Launchpad and Savannah,
>
> https://launchpad.net/vm
> https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/viewmail/ 
>
> with emacs 23. While it is clear that it does not have a huge team
> behind it, as you can see there Uday S. Reddy and Ulrich Mueller are
> quite active maintainers (there were 28 commits in March, for
> example).
>
> VM provides all the functionality I need (including very good MIME and
> html support, interacting very well with w3w) with an interface that
> is very natural to emacs users (similar to rmail) and which avoids the
> complications of gnus.  There is a good interface to maildir for
> example, and also to org mode. The virtual folder mechanism is really
> very good.
>
> The only missing thing for me is direct support for maildir but the VM
> maintainers are currently working on it.
>
> Manuel

Now that message mode has become the default mailer in Emacs 23.2+
unless people are already using a mua that they like, it is highly
advisable to use Gnus, which although many people have been saying it is
intimidating, it is not.

It is intimidating only because it is like org, it can do so many things
related to email/news but you don't need to do them all at the
beginning. Give it a news server such as news.gmane.org then you can
start using it on browsing mailing lists of projects of your interest
including this one.

Leo

-- 
H A P P Y  H O L I D A Y S!

Re: Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Geralt]

Hi,

wow, that looks really great, thanks :-)!



Do you know by chance if it's possible to link sent mails in threads?
I'm using Gmail and all my sent mail is in a folder called INBOX and
it would be really great if I could see my own messages in the
threads.




Geralt.

Re: [OT] Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Dan Davison]

Geralt <usr.gentoo@googlemail.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> wow, that looks really great, thanks :-)!
>
>
>
> Do you know by chance if it's possible to link sent mails in threads?

Hi Geralt,

Not me, I just got that stuff off google. I'm pretty scared of the gnus
manual, although I admit to finding it amusing in places.

But I think someone here might know.

Dan

p.s. Henri-Paul suggested this modification of the code I posted, which
gives time and date:

(setq gnus-summary-line-format
      (concat
       "%0{%U%R%z%}"
       "%3{│%}" "%1{%~(pad-right 10)&user-date;%}" "%3{│%}" ;; date
       "  "
       "%4{%-20,20f%}"               ;; name
       "  "
       "%3{│%}"
       " "
       "%1{%B%}"
       "%s\n"))


> I'm using Gmail and all my sent mail is in a folder called INBOX and
> it would be really great if I could see my own messages in the
> threads.
>
>
>
>
> Geralt.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: [OT] Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Jonathan Creekmore]

Geralt,
You could try ignoring the inbox folder and just pay attention to the  
All Mail folder. That should accomplish the same thing. Otherwise, you  
could try setting up a virtual folder that contains Inbox and Sent  
Items.
--
Jonathan Creekmore
jonathan@thecreekmores.org
Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 30, 2010, at 8:15 PM, Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

> Geralt <usr.gentoo@googlemail.com> writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> wow, that looks really great, thanks :-)!
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you know by chance if it's possible to link sent mails in threads?
>
> Hi Geralt,
>
> Not me, I just got that stuff off google. I'm pretty scared of the  
> gnus
> manual, although I admit to finding it amusing in places.
>
> But I think someone here might know.
>
> Dan
>
> p.s. Henri-Paul suggested this modification of the code I posted,  
> which
> gives time and date:
>
> (setq gnus-summary-line-format
>      (concat
>       "%0{%U%R%z%}"
>       "%3{│%}" "%1{%~(pad-right 10)&user-date;%}" "%3{│%}" ;; date
>       "  "
>       "%4{%-20,20f%}"               ;; name
>       "  "
>       "%3{│%}"
>       " "
>       "%1{%B%}"
>       "%s\n"))
>
>
>> I'm using Gmail and all my sent mail is in a folder called INBOX and
>> it would be really great if I could see my own messages in the
>> threads.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Geralt.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: [OT] Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Darlan Cavalcante Moreira]

Whenever I send an E-mail in wanderlust it sends a copy to me, except in
mailing lists (since I will already receive the E-mail through the mailing
list). Maybe this is not the most elegant way, but it works very well and I
don't have to even think about this.

- Darlan

At Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:15:08 -0400,
Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> 
> Geralt <usr.gentoo@googlemail.com> writes:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > wow, that looks really great, thanks :-)!
> >
> >
> >
> > Do you know by chance if it's possible to link sent mails in threads?
> 
> Hi Geralt,
> 
> Not me, I just got that stuff off google. I'm pretty scared of the gnus
> manual, although I admit to finding it amusing in places.
> 
> But I think someone here might know.
> 
> Dan
> 
> p.s. Henri-Paul suggested this modification of the code I posted, which
> gives time and date:
> 
> (setq gnus-summary-line-format
>       (concat
>        "%0{%U%R%z%}"
>        "%3{│%}" "%1{%~(pad-right 10)&user-date;%}" "%3{│%}" ;; date
>        "  "
>        "%4{%-20,20f%}"               ;; name
>        "  "
>        "%3{│%}"
>        " "
>        "%1{%B%}"
>        "%s\n"))
> 
> 
> > I'm using Gmail and all my sent mail is in a folder called INBOX and
> > it would be really great if I could see my own messages in the
> > threads.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Geralt.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: [OT] Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Geralt]

Hi,

On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 3:38 AM, Jonathan Creekmore
<jonathan.creekmore@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Geralt,
> You could try ignoring the inbox folder and just pay attention to the All
> Mail folder. That should accomplish the same thing. Otherwise, you could try
> setting up a virtual folder that contains Inbox and Sent Items.
>
I've mixed something up, my sent mail is, of course, in a folder
called Sent Mail, or [Google Mail].Sent Mail to be more precise. I'm
using Gmail's labeling system (over IMAP they look like folders), so
I'm not sure if I can still set up some kind of virtual folder(s) that
combine the sent mail and the original folder in question. And I guess
I would have to do that for every folder I'm currently using and will
use in the future, but I think that's ok, most oft my labels store
read-only traffic most of the time :-)

And thanks for the hint(s), looks like nnvirtual groups for combining
groups is what I want :-)



Geralt.

Re: [OT] Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Eric Schulte]

Darlan Cavalcante Moreira <darcamo@gmail.com> writes:

> Whenever I send an E-mail in wanderlust it sends a copy to me, except in
> mailing lists (since I will already receive the E-mail through the mailing
> list). Maybe this is not the most elegant way, but it works very well and I
> don't have to even think about this.
>

Similarly there is the gcc-self option in gnus which will add all sent
mail to the current group.  See the `gnus-parameters' variable for
information -- Eric

>
> - Darlan
>
> At Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:15:08 -0400,
> Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Geralt <usr.gentoo@googlemail.com> writes:
>> 
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > wow, that looks really great, thanks :-)!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Do you know by chance if it's possible to link sent mails in threads?
>> 
>> Hi Geralt,
>> 
>> Not me, I just got that stuff off google. I'm pretty scared of the gnus
>> manual, although I admit to finding it amusing in places.
>> 
>> But I think someone here might know.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> p.s. Henri-Paul suggested this modification of the code I posted, which
>> gives time and date:
>> 
>> (setq gnus-summary-line-format
>>       (concat
>>        "%0{%U%R%z%}"
>>        "%3{│%}" "%1{%~(pad-right 10)&user-date;%}" "%3{│%}" ;; date
>>        "  "
>>        "%4{%-20,20f%}"               ;; name
>>        "  "
>>        "%3{│%}"
>>        " "
>>        "%1{%B%}"
>>        "%s\n"))
>> 
>> 
>> > I'm using Gmail and all my sent mail is in a folder called INBOX and
>> > it would be really great if I could see my own messages in the
>> > threads.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Geralt.
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

Re: [OT] Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Henri-Paul Indiogine]

Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk> writes:
> (setq gnus-summary-line-format
>       (concat
>        "%0{%U%R%z%}"
>        "%3{│%}" "%1{%~(pad-right 10)&user-date;%}" "%3{│%}" ;; date
>        "  "
>        "%4{%-20,20f%}"               ;; name
>        "  "
>        "%3{│%}"
>        " "
>        "%1{%B%}"
>        "%s\n"))

I would like to truncate the subject line.  Right now it wraps to the
next line and that does not look well.

Anyone knows how to do that?

Thanks,

-- 
Henri-Paul Indiogine
Email: hindiogine@gmail.com
Skype: hindiogine
Website: http://www.coe.tamu.edu/~enrico

Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Robert Goldman]

Manuel Hermenegildo <herme <at> fi.upm.es> writes:

> 
> 
> I have to say in VM's defense that it is working very well for me (and
> has supported IMAP for a very long time) 

Is this really true?  In my days of using VM --- I eventually gave it up for
Thunderbird --- VM never had true IMAP support that could interact with folders
on the server.  All it did was use the IMAP protocol to populate its local mail
directory.  This isn't really full IMAP support, and it's not really adequate if
you want to get at your email from multiple different devices (hence my move to
Thunderbird).

Has this changed?  I used VM for a long time, and wouldn't mind going back to
it, if it could really talk to an IMAP server properly.  I don't see how the
architecture could be fixed to make that possible, though.

Re: Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Nick Dokos]

Robert Goldman <rpgoldman@sift.info> wrote:

> Manuel Hermenegildo <herme <at> fi.upm.es> writes:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > I have to say in VM's defense that it is working very well for me (and
> > has supported IMAP for a very long time) 
> 
> Is this really true?  In my days of using VM --- I eventually gave it up for
> Thunderbird --- VM never had true IMAP support that could interact with folders
> on the server.  All it did was use the IMAP protocol to populate its local mail
> directory.  This isn't really full IMAP support, and it's not really adequate if
> you want to get at your email from multiple different devices (hence my move to
> Thunderbird).
> 
> Has this changed?  I used VM for a long time, and wouldn't mind going back to
> it, if it could really talk to an IMAP server properly.  I don't see how the
> architecture could be fixed to make that possible, though.
> 
> 

From the VM manual:

,----
| IMAP Folders
| 
| VM's traditional mode of operation is to treat all remote mail sources
| as spool files, pulling all mail down from remote sources into local
| folders and deleting the remote copies. But sometimes it is more
| convenient to treat a remote mail source as a folder instead of a spool
| file, manipulating the remote source as if it were a folder instead of
| just a holding area for incoming messages.
| 
| The command vm-visit-imap-folder allows you to visit a IMAP mailbox as
| if it were a folder. When you visit a IMAP folder, VM will download
| copies of the messages that it finds there for you to read. If you
| delete and expunge messages in the local copy of the folder, the
| corresponding messages on the IMAP server will be removed when you save
| the changes with vm-save-folder.
| 
| Message attributes (new, replied, filed, etc.) are stored on the IMAP
| server and are also cached locally. Labels cannot be stored on the IMAP
| server but you can use them lcoally.
| 
| In order for VM to know about IMAP servers that you can access, you must
| declare them by setting the variable vm-imap-server-list. The variable's
| value should be a list of the form:
| 
|  (IMAPDROP IMAPDROP ...)
| 
| IMAPDROP is a IMAP maildrop specification in the same format used by
| vm-spool-files.
| 
| For example:
| 
| (setq vm-imap-server-list '(
|       "imap-ssl:mail.foocorp.com:993:inbox:login:becky:*"
|       "imap:crickle.lex.ky.us:143:inbox:login:becky:*" ) )
| 
| The mailbox (`inbox' in the example) is ignored; when when
| vm-visit-imap-folder asks for a folder name you can enter any folder
| that is acessible to you on the IMAP server.
`----

HTH,
Nick

Re: Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Nick Dokos]

Robert Goldman <rpgoldman@sift.info> wrote:

> Thanks for the news.  I'm looking forward to having a new look at VM, if
> it works well with IMAP now.
> 
> Unfortunately, at least the documentation on the emacs wiki for how to
> use IMAP is badly ambiguous.  There's a paragraph on the distinction
> between the use of local folders and server folders, but no discussion
> of how to get the server folder behavior, and there's no discussion of
> how to configure to use server folders, although there's very detailed
> discussion of how to configure given that one is using remote folders....
> 

Robert,

I got the snippet out of the VM manual at

   http://www.wonderworks.com/vm/user-manual

Maybe that is more detailed/less ambiguous than the emacs wiki?

Nick

PS. BTW, I'm an MH-E user, so I know very little about VM.

Re: Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Gary]

On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 08:53:17PM +0100, Leo wrote:

> although many people have been saying it is
> intimidating, it is not.

Oh yes it is :)

I fondly[1] remember spending *ages* trying to find out how to set the
citation line (you don't, you setq message-citation-line-function
'my-message-insert-citation-line instead).

[1] That may not be entirely true...

Anyway, isn't this all rather OT for this list? There is a *very* good
gnus list over there >>>----->

Re: Re: Org mode and emacs email

[peter.frings]

On 31 Mar 2010, at 21:09, Gary wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 08:53:17PM +0100, Leo wrote:
> 
>> although many people have been saying it is
>> intimidating, it is not.
> 
> Oh yes it is :)

I kind of agree. This brings up another question, related to the recent discussion about making a 'ready to fly' emacs/org-mode package, suitable for the non-emacs-sapiens that are attracted by org-mode.

I can imagine those people would like to send their carefully crafted org buffers by email. Do you expect them to set up gnus/vm/wanderlust/... ? I guess not.

So, wouldn't it be good if org could send those nicely formatted emails using their mail clients? 'M-x org-send-email' and woosh, there it goes!

Org prepares the body, then tells the mail app to prepare an mail with it. On the mac with Mail.app that's fairly easy to do with Applescript, and I guess other mac clients provide similar access. On Windows or *nix I don't know, but I can only assume similar functionality exists.

Maybe we needs some hooks in some places to encode images and such, and a way to deal with the communication with the mail client, ... 

Wooosh, it would be nice.

Cheers,
Peter.

Re: Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Eric Schulte]

Hi Peter,

peter.frings@agfa.com writes:

>
> So, wouldn't it be good if org could send those nicely formatted
> emails using their mail clients? 'M-x org-send-email' and woosh, there
> it goes!
>

I agree this would be nice, however my initial reaction is that this
will be the sort of project which has to be rewritten/tweaked for each
individual personal system configuration.

That said, since mml is distributed as part of Emacs, then the entire
mime encoding process could end up being relatively easy, the only
question is how to convince guified email clients to send pre-packaged
mime email.  I suspect this will be difficult for most email
applications, and impossible for web email clients (e.g. Gmail).

Also, if user's can send fancy email from civilian email clients why
would they switch to "real" Emacs based email clients. :)

>
> Org prepares the body, then tells the mail app to prepare an mail with
> it. On the mac with Mail.app that's fairly easy to do with
> Applescript, and I guess other mac clients provide similar access. On
> Windows or *nix I don't know, but I can only assume similar
> functionality exists.
>

That's great that this would be easy with Mail.app.  My uneducated guess
is that it will also be fairly easy with *nix clients like Thunderbird,
near impossible with MS Outlook, and fully impossible with web clients.

Hopefully I'm wrong on this, and I'd be happy to work on the org export
and mime-encoding portions of this task.

Cheers -- Eric

Re: Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Giovanni Ridolfi]

"Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes:
> peter.frings@agfa.com writes:
>> Org prepares the body, then tells the mail app to prepare an mail with
>> it. [...] 
>> On Windows or *nix I don't know, but I can only assume similar
>> functionality exists.
>>
>
>  My uneducated guess is that it will [...]
> near impossible with MS Outlook

My workflow for Outlook Express (6.00.29)  + (Windows XP SP 3) is: 

+ open  a html formatted message in outlook express (oe)
+ switch to Emacs and
+ export my email text (mainly quotations, with tables!) in a html file, 
+ view it in Firefox,
+ select with the mouse
+ cut & paste in the oe message

cheers,
Giovanni

Re: Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Henri-Paul Indiogine]

Giovanni Ridolfi <giovanni.ridolfi@yahoo.it> writes:
> "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes:
>> peter.frings@agfa.com writes:
>>> Org prepares the body, then tells the mail app to prepare an mail with
>>> it. [...] 
>>> On Windows or *nix I don't know, but I can only assume similar
>>> functionality exists.

Just a suggestion from an almost beginner:

All Gnu Emacs distributions include both org-mode and gnus by default.
Maybe we could provide and .emacs file with code for org-mode and gnus
for IMAP and POP3 commented out in sections.  Then we could explain that
in case you need A and B you un-comment these sections and fill in the
appropriate data and so on. Or if you need A and C then you un-comment ....

It still would require some basic editing of a text file, but since
someone has already decided to use a text editor that should not be a
major impediment.

I know it would have helped me immensely when I started out.


-- 
Henri-Paul Indiogine
Email: hindiogine@gmail.com
Skype: hindiogine
Website: http://www.coe.tamu.edu/~enrico

Re: Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Daniel Goldin]

I too am a non-programmer-type who loves emacs/org-mode. I second this
approach. I don't think it will ever be possible -- nor desirable -- to
create a pure out-of-the-box setup as in window's programs -- but this
approach would work well for those of us able to tinker and learn a
little but not quick enough to build from scratch. A good initial
setup(s) and a good manual entry should suffice.

d.

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010, Henri-Paul Indiogine wrote:

> Giovanni Ridolfi <giovanni.ridolfi@yahoo.it> writes:
> > "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes:
> >> peter.frings@agfa.com writes:
> >>> Org prepares the body, then tells the mail app to prepare an mail with
> >>> it. [...] 
> >>> On Windows or *nix I don't know, but I can only assume similar
> >>> functionality exists.
> 
> Just a suggestion from an almost beginner:
> 
> All Gnu Emacs distributions include both org-mode and gnus by default.
> Maybe we could provide and .emacs file with code for org-mode and gnus
> for IMAP and POP3 commented out in sections.  Then we could explain that
> in case you need A and B you un-comment these sections and fill in the
> appropriate data and so on. Or if you need A and C then you un-comment ....
> 
> It still would require some basic editing of a text file, but since
> someone has already decided to use a text editor that should not be a
> major impediment.
> 
> I know it would have helped me immensely when I started out.
> 
> 

-- 
Daniel Goldin 
213.926.1960

Re: [OT] Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Eraldo Helal]

Henri-Paul Indiogine <hindiogine@gmail.com> writes:
> I would like to truncate the subject line.  Right now it wraps to the
> next line and that does not look well.
>
> Anyone knows how to do that?

I am very new to all this, but...
how about turning off line wrapping in that buffer?

Greetings,
Eraldo

Re: Org mode and emacs email

[Uday S Reddy]

Robert Goldman wrote:
 
> Is this really true?  In my days of using VM --- I eventually gave it up for
> Thunderbird --- VM never had true IMAP support that could interact with folders
> on the server.  All it did was use the IMAP protocol to populate its local mail
> directory.  This isn't really full IMAP support, and it's not really adequate if
> you want to get at your email from multiple different devices (hence my move to
> Thunderbird).
> 
> Has this changed?  I used VM for a long time, and wouldn't mind going back to
> it, if it could really talk to an IMAP server properly.  I don't see how the
> architecture could be fixed to make that possible, though.

Dear Robert, the VM's vm-imap.el file lists a certain "Robert P. Goldman" as a contributor in 2006.  Is that you?

I am not sure what problems you think there are in the architecture of VM, but I started working on the IMAP support in 2008 and have been adding to it off and on since then.  The current public release (VM 8.1.0) caches an IMAP folder locally and sync's it with the server whenever you do 'save'.  I have been using this functionality since 2008 without any problems.

Some people say that they have very large IMAP folder and can't download them all into local caches.  The current development version (future VM 8.2.0) has an experimental implementation of a headers-only mode, whereby you can download just the headers.  Message bodies are retrieved as and when you view the messages.  This is essentially how Thunderbird works, or Gnus for that matter.

I would welcome you to give it a try and let me know if you face any problems.

Cheers,
Uday