org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Uwe Brauer via General discussions about Org-mode.]

Hi 

Look a the following example
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
\begin{equation*}
  A^{0}=
  \begin{pNiceArray}{C|CCC}[margin]
    -m^{00}& 0 & 0 & 0\\
    \hline
    0 & \Block{3-3}{-m^{ab}}& &\\
    0 & & & \\
    0 & & & \\
  \end{pNiceArray}
  \qquad
  A^{k}=
  \begin{pNiceArray}{C|CCC}[margin]
    -2m^{0k}& m^{1k} & m^{2k} & m^{3k}\\
    \hline
    m^{1k}& \Block{3-3}{0_{3\times3 }}& &\\
    m^{2k}& & & \\
    m^{3k}& & &
  \end{pNiceArray}
\end{equation*}
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Here is a MWE:
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{nicematrix}
\newcolumntype{C}{c}
\begin{document}
\begin{equation*}
  A^{0}=
  \begin{pNiceArray}{C|CCC}[margin]
    -m^{00}& 0 & 0 & 0\\
    \hline
    0 & \Block{3-3}{-m^{ab}}& &\\
    0 & & & \\
    0 & & & \\
  \end{pNiceArray}
  \qquad
  A^{k}=
  \begin{pNiceArray}{C|CCC}[margin]
    -2m^{0k}& m^{1k} & m^{2k} & m^{3k}\\
    \hline
    m^{1k}& \Block{3-3}{0_{3\times3 }}& &\\
    m^{2k}& & & \\
    m^{3k}& & &
  \end{pNiceArray}
\end{equation*}
\end{document}
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
for which I added

To org-format-latex-header
   "\\usepackage{nicematrix}\12\newcolumntype{C}{c}\12"

In order to obtain a nice result the corresponding latex file
should run twice, however.

Any this is a problem for org-latex-preview, it seems.

Any idea how to make this example work?

Thanks and regards

Uwe Brauer 



-- 
I strongly condemn Hamas heinous despicable pogroms/atrocities on Israel
I strongly condemn Putin's war of aggression against Ukraine.
I support to deliver weapons to Ukraine's military. 
I support the EU and NATO membership of Ukraine. 

Re: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Ihor Radchenko]

Uwe Brauer via "General discussions about Org-mode."
<emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> writes:

> Hi 
>
> Look a the following example
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> \begin{equation*}
> ...
>
> To org-format-latex-header
>    "\\usepackage{nicematrix}\12\newcolumntype{C}{c}\12"
>
> In order to obtain a nice result the corresponding latex file
> should run twice, however.
>
> Any this is a problem for org-latex-preview, it seems.

Karthik, may you please check if this is going to work with latex
preview branch?

> Any idea how to make this example work?

You can modify `org-preview-latex-process-alist' to use latexmk.
See `org-babel-latex-process-alist' for an example.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
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Re: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Uwe Brauer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1587 bytes --]


> Uwe Brauer via "General discussions about Org-mode."
> <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> writes:


> Karthik, may you please check if this is going to work with latex
> preview branch?


> You can modify `org-preview-latex-process-alist' to use latexmk.
Thanks:

You mean for example 
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---

LaTeX to image backends:
INS DEL Key: dvipng
            Plist:
            INS DEL :
                        Key: :programs
                        Value: ("latex" "dvipng")            INS DEL :
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Or 


--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---

              Key: :latex-compiler
              Value: 
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Or 


--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---

("latex -interaction nonstopmode -output-directory %o %f")
INS DEL Key: dvisvgm
            Plist:
            INS DEL :
                        Key: :programs
                        Value: ("latex" "dvisvgm")
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---




> See `org-babel-latex-process-alist' for an example.

I don't have that variable, when was this supposed to be introduced?


-- 
I strongly condemn Hamas heinous despicable pogroms/atrocities on Israel
I strongly condemn Putin's war of aggression against Ukraine.
I support to deliver weapons to Ukraine's military. 
I support the EU and NATO membership of Ukraine. 


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Re: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Ihor Radchenko]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

>> You can modify `org-preview-latex-process-alist' to use latexmk.
> Thanks:
>
> You mean for example 
> ...
>                         Key: :programs
>                         Value: ("latex" "dvipng")            INS DEL :
> ...
> ("latex -interaction nonstopmode -output-directory %o %f")

Yes.

>> See `org-babel-latex-process-alist' for an example.
>
> I don't have that variable, when was this supposed to be introduced?

Relatively recently.
See https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git/tree/lisp/ob-latex.el#n132

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
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Re: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Uwe Brauer]

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>>> "IR" == Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
>>> You can modify `org-preview-latex-process-alist' to use latexmk.
>> Thanks:
>> 
>> You mean for example 
>> ...
>> Key: :programs
>> Value: ("latex" "dvipng")            INS DEL :
>> ...
>> ("latex -interaction nonstopmode -output-directory %o %f")

> Yes.

Thanks I tried 
("latexmk -f -pdf -latex -interaction=nonstopmode -output-directory=%o %f")

But the example


\begin{equation*}
  A^{0}=
  \begin{pNiceArray}{C|CCC}[margin]
    -m^{00}& 0 & 0 & 0\\
    \hline
    0 & \Block{3-3}{-m^{ab}}& &\\
    0 & & & \\
    0 & & & \\
  \end{pNiceArray}
  \qquad
  A^{k}=
  \begin{pNiceArray}{C|CCC}[margin]
    -2m^{0k}& m^{1k} & m^{2k} & m^{3k}\\
    \hline
    m^{1k}& \Block{3-3}{0_{3\times3 }}& &\\
    m^{2k}& & & \\
    m^{3k}& & &
  \end{pNiceArray}
\end{equation*}

Again leads to 




-- 
I strongly condemn Hamas heinous despicable pogroms/atrocities on Israel
I strongly condemn Putin's war of aggression against Ukraine.
I support to deliver weapons to Ukraine's military. 
I support the EU and NATO membership of Ukraine. 


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Re: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Ihor Radchenko]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

>>> ("latex -interaction nonstopmode -output-directory %o %f")
>
>> Yes.
>
> Thanks I tried 
> ("latexmk -f -pdf -latex -interaction=nonstopmode -output-directory=%o %f")

Try to run it manually.
Also, please make sure that your latex generation method of choice (png?
svg?) is what you actually customized.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Uwe Brauer]

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>>> "IR" == Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
>>> ("latex -interaction nonstopmode -output-directory %o %f")
>> 
>>> Yes.
>> 
>> Thanks I tried 
>> ("latexmk -f -pdf -latex -interaction=nonstopmode -output-directory=%o %f")

> Try to run it manually.

What do you mean by this?


> Also, please make sure that your latex generation method of choice (png?
> svg?) is what you actually customized.

Which variable I have to check now?

-- 
I strongly condemn Hamas heinous despicable pogroms/atrocities on Israel
I strongly condemn Putin's war of aggression against Ukraine.
I support to deliver weapons to Ukraine's military. 
I support the EU and NATO membership of Ukraine. 


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Re: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Ihor Radchenko]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

>>> ("latexmk -f -pdf -latex -interaction=nonstopmode -output-directory=%o %f")
>
>> Try to run it manually.
>
> What do you mean by this?

You originally provided a latex file example:

> Here is a MWE:
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> \documentclass{article}
> \usepackage{nicematrix}
> ...

You can try running latexmk command with the above parameters on that
file and see if the results make sense.

>> Also, please make sure that your latex generation method of choice (png?
>> svg?) is what you actually customized.
>
> Which variable I have to check now?

`org-preview-latex-process-alist' - it has multiple slots to configure,
depending on your configuration for
`org-preview-latex-default-process'. You need to modify the one you are
actually using.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Uwe Brauer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 931 bytes --]


> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

> You originally provided a latex file example:


> You can try running latexmk command with the above parameters on that
> file and see if the results make sense.
Ok, it still does not work.

It seems that its really necessary to use either 

    1. pdflatex not latex, and to run it twice

    2. Or xelatex not latex and to run it twice

so latexmk -f -pdf seems to be not the same as pdflatex/xelatex





> `org-preview-latex-process-alist' - it has multiple slots to configure,
> depending on your configuration for
> `org-preview-latex-default-process'. You need to modify the one you are
> actually using.

-- 
I strongly condemn Hamas heinous despicable pogroms/atrocities on Israel
I strongly condemn Putin's war of aggression against Ukraine.
I support to deliver weapons to Ukraine's military. 
I support the EU and NATO membership of Ukraine. 


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Re: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Ihor Radchenko]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

>> You originally provided a latex file example:
>
>
>> You can try running latexmk command with the above parameters on that
>> file and see if the results make sense.
> Ok, it still does not work.
>
> It seems that its really necessary to use either 
>
>     1. pdflatex not latex, and to run it twice
>
>     2. Or xelatex not latex and to run it twice

No, it should not be necessary. latexmk's job is exactly running
latex/pdflatex/xelatex/etc the number of times necessary.

> so latexmk -f -pdf seems to be not the same as pdflatex/xelatex

I just tried

latexmk -f -pdf text.tex

And it worked.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
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Re: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Uwe Brauer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3824 bytes --]

>>> "IR" == Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

   > Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
   >>> You originally provided a latex file example:
   >> 
   >> 
   >>> You can try running latexmk command with the above parameters on that
   >>> file and see if the results make sense.
   >> Ok, it still does not work.
   >> 
   >> It seems that its really necessary to use either 
   >> 
   >> 1. pdflatex not latex, and to run it twice
   >> 
   >> 2. Or xelatex not latex and to run it twice

   > No, it should not be necessary. latexmk's job is exactly running
   > latex/pdflatex/xelatex/etc the number of times necessary.

   >> so latexmk -f -pdf seems to be not the same as pdflatex/xelatex

   > I just tried

   > latexmk -f -pdf text.tex

Confirmed.

So I changed the setting of org-preview-latex-process-alist

To 

((dvipng :programs
         ("latexmk" "dvipng")
         :description "dvi > png" :message "you need to install the programs: latex and dvipng." :image-input-type "dvi" :image-output-type "png" :image-size-adjust
         (1.0 . 1.0)
         :latex-compiler
         ("latexmk  -f -pdf -output-directory=%o %f")
         :image-converter
         ("dvipng -D %D -T tight -o %O %f")
         :transparent-image-converter
         ("dvipng -D %D -T tight -bg Transparent -o %O %f"))
 (dvisvgm :programs
          ("latex" "dvisvgm")
          :description "dvi > svg" :message "you need to install the programs: latex and dvisvgm." :image-input-type "dvi" :image-output-type "svg" :image-size-adjust
          (1.7 . 1.5)
          :latex-compiler
          ("latex -interaction nonstopmode -output-directory %o %f")
          :image-converter
          ("dvisvgm %f --no-fonts --exact-bbox --scale=%S --output=%O"))
 (imagemagick :programs
              ("latexmk" "convert")
              :description "pdf > png" :message "you need to install the programs: latex and imagemagick." :image-input-type "pdf" :image-output-type "png" :image-size-adjust
              (1.0 . 1.0)
              :latex-compiler
              ("pdflatex -interaction nonstopmode -output-directory %o %f")
              :image-converter
              ("convert -density %D -trim -antialias %f -quality 100 %O")))


But now I receive


--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error "File \"/tmp/orgtex68AmTu.dvi\" wasn’t produced.  Ple...")
  signal(error ("File \"/tmp/orgtex68AmTu.dvi\" wasn’t produced.  Ple..."))
  error("File \"/tmp/orgtex68AmTu.dvi\" wasn't produced.  Ple...")
  org-compile-file("/tmp/orgtex68AmTu.tex" ("latexmk  -f -pdf -output-directory=%o %f") "dvi" "Please adjust `dvipng' part of `org-preview-latex-..." #<buffer *Org Preview LaTeX Output*>)
  org-create-formula-image("\\begin{equation*}\n  A^{0}=\n  \\begin{pNiceArray}{C|..." "/home/oub/ALLES/HGs/Karp/Pub/Preprints/Full-Euler-..." (:foreground "black" :background "grey98" :scale 1.5 :html-foreground "Black" :html-background "Transparent" :html-scale 1 :matchers ("begin" "$1" "$" "$$" "\\(" "\\[")) forbuffer dvipng)
  org-format-latex("ltximg/org-ltximg" 106 510 "/home/oub/ALLES/HGs/Karp/Pub/Preprints/Full-Euler-..." overlays nil forbuffer dvipng)
  org--latex-preview-region(106 510)
  org-latex-preview(nil)
  funcall-interactively(org-latex-preview nil)
  call-interactively(org-latex-preview nil nil)
  command-execute(org-latex-preview)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---




   > And it worked.

-- 
I strongly condemn Hamas heinous despicable pogroms/atrocities on Israel
I strongly condemn Putin's war of aggression against Ukraine.
I support to deliver weapons to Ukraine's military. 
I support the EU and NATO membership of Ukraine. 


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Re: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Ihor Radchenko]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

>    > I just tried
>
>    > latexmk -f -pdf text.tex
>
> Confirmed.
>
> So I changed the setting of org-preview-latex-process-alist
> ....
> But now I receive
>
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error "File \"/tmp/orgtex68AmTu.dvi\" wasn’t produced.  Ple...")
>   signal(error ("File \"/tmp/orgtex68AmTu.dvi\" wasn’t produced.  Ple..."))
>   error("File \"/tmp/orgtex68AmTu.dvi\" wasn't produced.  Ple...")
>   org-compile-file("/tmp/orgtex68AmTu.tex" ("latexmk  -f -pdf -output-directory=%o %f") "dvi" "Please adjust `dvipng' part of `org-preview-latex-..." #<buffer *Org Preview LaTeX Output*>)

This is expected.

> ((dvipng :programs
>          ("latexmk" "dvipng")
>          :description "dvi > png" :message "you need to install the programs: latex and dvipng." :image-input-type "dvi" :image-output-type "png" :image-size-adjust
>          (1.0 . 1.0)
>          :latex-compiler
>          ("latexmk  -f -pdf -output-directory=%o %f")
>          :image-converter
>          ("dvipng -D %D -T tight -o %O %f")
>          :transparent-image-converter
>          ("dvipng -D %D -T tight -bg Transparent -o %O %f"))

dvipng previews expect .dvi files, not .pdf. You must use

("latexmk  -f -latex -output-directory=%o %f")

Except that latex does not produce the desired result, which indicates
that you are using some very strange package that is not compatible with
latex.

I can only suggest using "imagemagick" process to use pdf -> png
conversion, but truly that should be a bug in the latex package.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Uwe Brauer]

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> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

> This is expected.


> dvipng previews expect .dvi files, not .pdf. You must use

> ("latexmk  -f -latex -output-directory=%o %f")

> Except that latex does not produce the desired result, which indicates
> that you are using some very strange package that is not compatible with
> latex.

Well, there are a couple of packages that explicitly state that they
only work with pdflatex, nicematrix, todonotes and ocgx for example

> I can only suggest using "imagemagick" process to use pdf -> png
> conversion, but truly that should be a bug in the latex package.


So 
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
org-mime-org-html-with-latex-default is a variable defined in ‘org-mime.el’.

Its value is ‘imagemagick’
Original value was ‘dvipng’
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

But this did not help the error continues, so it seems that dvipng is still used.





-- 
I strongly condemn Hamas heinous despicable pogroms/atrocities on Israel
I strongly condemn Putin's war of aggression against Ukraine.
I support to deliver weapons to Ukraine's military. 
I support the EU and NATO membership of Ukraine. 


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[RFC] latex preview and pdflatex-only packages (was: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice))

[Ihor Radchenko]

Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

>> dvipng previews expect .dvi files, not .pdf. You must use
>
>> ("latexmk  -f -latex -output-directory=%o %f")
>
>> Except that latex does not produce the desired result, which indicates
>> that you are using some very strange package that is not compatible with
>> latex.
>
> Well, there are a couple of packages that explicitly state that they
> only work with pdflatex, nicematrix, todonotes and ocgx for example

This is a surprise.

Are there packages that are an opposite - do not work with pdflatex, but
work with bare latex?

Karthik, any thoughts on this?

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: [RFC] latex preview and pdflatex-only packages

[Stefan Nobis]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

>> Well, there are a couple of packages that explicitly state that they
>> only work with pdflatex, nicematrix, todonotes and ocgx for example

> Are there packages that are an opposite - do not work with pdflatex,
> but work with bare latex?

Just to add some data points:

The current versions of nicematrix states that it works with all three
engines, xelatex, lualatex, and pdflatex.

Todonotes also works with lualatex (and for quite some years).

At least in the newest version of ocgx the documentation states that
ocgx works with pdflatax and lualatex - but as ocgx is an extension to
ocg-p and ocg-p only works with pdflatex (and xelatex), effectively
only pdflatex is supported.

More general: Out there are quite some package that support only one
of the current engines xelatex, lualatex, or pdflatex. My gut feeling
is, that the majority works with any engine and more and more packages
tend to support the more modern engines xelatex and lualatex, while
dropping support for pdflatex.

Therefore, independently of any defaults set by Org, there will be
situation in which users have to explicitly configure a different
engine.

-- 
Until the next mail...,
Stefan.

Re: [RFC] latex preview and pdflatex-only packages

[Stefan Nobis]

Stefan Nobis <stefan-ml@snobis.de> writes:

> More general: Out there are quite some package that support only one
> of the current engines xelatex, lualatex, or pdflatex. My gut feeling
> is, that the majority works with any engine and more and more packages
> tend to support the more modern engines xelatex and lualatex, while
> dropping support for pdflatex.

To be more precise: The packages, that are stronger bound to some
engine internals tend to go in the direction of the more modern
engines. Most packages are quite independent of the used engine.

-- 
Until the next mail...,
Stefan.

Re: [RFC] latex preview and pdflatex-only packages

[Ihor Radchenko]

Stefan Nobis <stefan-ml@snobis.de> writes:

> More general: Out there are quite some package that support only one
> of the current engines xelatex, lualatex, or pdflatex. My gut feeling
> is, that the majority works with any engine and more and more packages
> tend to support the more modern engines xelatex and lualatex, while
> dropping support for pdflatex.

Not sure here. Simply because some major publishers still hold on
pdflatex. Or do you have other information?

> Therefore, independently of any defaults set by Org, there will be
> situation in which users have to explicitly configure a different
> engine.

That might be true, yes.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: [RFC] latex preview and pdflatex-only packages

[Juergen Fenn]

Am 18.08.24 um 14:01 Uhr schrieb Ihor Radchenko:
>> More general: Out there are quite some package that support only one
>> of the current engines xelatex, lualatex, or pdflatex. My gut feeling
>> is, that the majority works with any engine and more and more packages
>> tend to support the more modern engines xelatex and lualatex, while
>> dropping support for pdflatex.
> Not sure here. Simply because some major publishers still hold on
> pdflatex. Or do you have other information?

There have been two lines of development in TeX lately. On the one hand
there are packages that require features from the LaTeX3 kernel. This
should not pose a problem because LaTeX3 will be installed on a recent
TeX Live system. And then, there are packages that require a particular
TeX engine. You have to take a look into the package documentation for
that. No general advice can be made here. That's probably why Stefan
above wrote about his "gut feeling". If you want to restrict Org export
to LaTeX packages that will be found on most TeX systems, I suggest you
use those packages that are either "required" by the LaTeX Project for
any LaTeX installation, or that you document which additional packages
should be installed in order for Org export to work. Most packages that
require xetex or luatex will deal with special fonts or require lua
scripting in the background. So I personally don't see a reason to use
them for exporting a document to LaTeX. FWIW, pdftex, xetex, and luatex
all use UTF-8 as standard input encoding. LaTeX also switched to UTF-8 a
while ago. And, pdftex is by no means deprecated or out of date etc. In
fact, it's the standard TeX engine and will remain so for some time. You
might like to ask the TeX Live developers on their mailing list or the
LaTeX Project on GitHub for some more advice.

Best regards,
Jürgen.

Re: [RFC] latex preview and pdflatex-only packages

[Ihor Radchenko]

Juergen Fenn <jfenn@gmx.net> writes:

> There have been two lines of development in TeX lately. On the one hand
> there are packages that require features from the LaTeX3 kernel. This
> should not pose a problem because LaTeX3 will be installed on a recent
> TeX Live system. And then, there are packages that require a particular
> TeX engine.

This is all fine and expected. Users of alternative
xelatex/lualatex/pdflatex are expected to customize the latex engine
they need. Org mode defaults to pdflatex.

My concern is latex vs. pdflatex.
So far, Org mode worked under assumption that latex and pdflatex are
interchangeable. But pNiceArray proved us wrong (it does not work with
latex, only with pdflatex).

So, the idea is to replace the usage of latex in Org (by default) with
pdflatex. But that will only work in pdflatex is a strict superset of
latex and _all_ the packages that work with latex will also work with
pdflatex.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: [RFC] latex preview and pdflatex-only packages

[Juergen Fenn]

Am 18.08.24 um 15:47 Uhr schrieb Ihor Radchenko:
> Juergen Fenn <jfenn@gmx.net> writes:
>
>> There have been two lines of development in TeX lately. On the one hand
>> there are packages that require features from the LaTeX3 kernel. This
>> should not pose a problem because LaTeX3 will be installed on a recent
>> TeX Live system. And then, there are packages that require a particular
>> TeX engine.
>
> This is all fine and expected. Users of alternative
> xelatex/lualatex/pdflatex are expected to customize the latex engine
> they need. Org mode defaults to pdflatex.
>
> My concern is latex vs. pdflatex.
> So far, Org mode worked under assumption that latex and pdflatex are
> interchangeable. But pNiceArray proved us wrong (it does not work with
> latex, only with pdflatex).
>
> So, the idea is to replace the usage of latex in Org (by default) with
> pdflatex. But that will only work in pdflatex is a strict superset of
> latex and _all_ the packages that work with latex will also work with
> pdflatex.
>

If you call latex then pdflatex is executed and you get a PDF file by
default, not a DVI:

juergenfenn@Elefant Desktop % latex --version
pdfTeX 3.141592653-2.6-1.40.26 (TeX Live 2024)
kpathsea version 6.4.0
Copyright 2024 Han The Thanh (pdfTeX) et al.
There is NO warranty.  Redistribution of this software is
covered by the terms of both the pdfTeX copyright and
the Lesser GNU General Public License.
For more information about these matters, see the file
named COPYING and the pdfTeX source.
Primary author of pdfTeX: Han The Thanh (pdfTeX) et al.
Compiled with libpng 1.6.43; using libpng 1.6.43
Compiled with zlib 1.3.1; using zlib 1.3.1
Compiled with xpdf version 4.04

pdftex is a tex with some extensions. So latex as an engine is s subset
of pdftex. Perhaps I'm missing something.

Best regards,
Jürgen.

Re: [RFC] latex preview and pdflatex-only packages

[Ihor Radchenko]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 344 bytes --]

Juergen Fenn <jfenn@gmx.net> writes:

> If you call latex then pdflatex is executed and you get a PDF file by
> default, not a DVI:

Not, by default, .dvi is produced when using latex command.

Try the attached file:
1. latex test.tex
2. dvisvgm test.tex test.svg

then, try
1. pdflatex test.tex

You will see a difference in produced output.


[-- Attachment #2: test.tex --]
[-- Type: application/x-tex, Size: 503 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 224 bytes --]


-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: [RFC] latex preview and pdflatex-only packages

[Juergen Fenn]

Am 18.08.24 um 16:31 Uhr schrieb Ihor Radchenko:
> Juergen Fenn <jfenn@gmx.net> writes:
>
>> If you call latex then pdflatex is executed and you get a PDF file by
>> default, not a DVI:
>
> Not, by default, .dvi is produced when using latex command.
>
> Try the attached file:
> 1. latex test.tex
> 2. dvisvgm test.tex test.svg
>
> then, try
> 1. pdflatex test.tex
>
> You will see a difference in produced output.

I am sorry, you are right:


juergenfenn@Elefant Desktop % latex briefvorlage-2023-11-12.tex
This is pdfTeX, Version 3.141592653-2.6-1.40.26 (TeX Live 2024)
(preloaded format=latex)
 restricted \write18 enabled.
entering extended mode
(./briefvorlage-2023-11-12.tex
LaTeX2e <2024-06-01> patch level 2
L3 programming layer <2024-07-20>

...

Output written on briefvorlage-2023-11-12.dvi (1 page, 1520 bytes).
Transcript written on briefvorlage-2023-11-12.log.


But, as you can see from the logfile, this is not "latex", as it used to
be, say, ten years ago, but when calling latex then pdflatex is run in
DVI mode, as the pdftex man page calls it. The TeX Live team replaced
latex as an engine proper some years ago and introduced pdftex as the
default engine. You can change that locally in you TeX Live config or
you tell AUCTeX which engine to use.

I don't think you really want to default to DVI. No one does. After all,
dvisvgm also works with PDF:


DVISVGM(1)                                dvisvgm Manual
               DVISVGM(1)

NAME
       dvisvgm - converts DVI, EPS, and PDF files to the XML-based SVG
format


So, if you want to change anything in your setup, proceed from
pdf(la)tex and its options. BTW, the TeX engines are not treated in the
LaTeX Companion which only deals with LaTeX the format.

Best regards,
Jürgen.

Re: [RFC] latex preview and pdflatex-only packages

[Juergen Fenn]

> The TeX Live team replaced
> latex as an engine proper some years ago and introduced pdftex as the
> default engine.


They switched to pdftex as the default engine in 2004:

https://tug.org/texlive/doc/texlive-en/texlive-en.html#x1-740009.1.2

Best regards,
Jürgen.

Re: [RFC] latex preview and pdflatex-only packages (was: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice))

[Karthik Chikmagalur]

>> Well, there are a couple of packages that explicitly state that they
>> only work with pdflatex, nicematrix, todonotes and ocgx for example
>
> This is a surprise.
>
> Are there packages that are an opposite - do not work with pdflatex, but
> work with bare latex?
>
> Karthik, any thoughts on this?

A surprise to me as well.  I think it is outside the purview of
org-latex-preview to handle org-latex-compiler + LaTeX package
incompatibilities.

I am making a note to add support for latexmk to the async process
chain though.

Karthik

Re: [RFC] latex preview and pdflatex-only packages (was: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice))

[Ihor Radchenko]

Karthik Chikmagalur <karthikchikmagalur@gmail.com> writes:

>> Are there packages that are an opposite - do not work with pdflatex, but
>> work with bare latex?
>>
>> Karthik, any thoughts on this?
>
> A surprise to me as well.  I think it is outside the purview of
> org-latex-preview to handle org-latex-compiler + LaTeX package
> incompatibilities.

Maybe. But in a view of this new information, we might consider
different defaults: (a) latexmk; (b) avoiding eps -> svg/png path in
favor of pdf -> svg/png.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Uwe Brauer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 514 bytes --]


> I can only suggest using "imagemagick" process to use pdf -> png
> conversion, but truly that should be a bug in the latex package.


I am unable to do that, it seems that org-preview-latex-process-alist
only uses dvipng, with the problems reported. 


-- 
I strongly condemn Hamas heinous despicable pogroms/atrocities on Israel
I strongly condemn Putin's war of aggression against Ukraine.
I support to deliver weapons to Ukraine's military. 
I support the EU and NATO membership of Ukraine. 


[-- Attachment #2: smime.p7s --]
[-- Type: application/pkcs7-signature, Size: 5684 bytes --]

Re: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Uwe Brauer via General discussions about Org-mode.]

> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

> This is expected.


> dvipng previews expect .dvi files, not .pdf. You must use

> ("latexmk  -f -latex -output-directory=%o %f")

> Except that latex does not produce the desired result, which indicates
> that you are using some very strange package that is not compatible with
> latex.

> I can only suggest using "imagemagick" process to use pdf -> png
> conversion, but truly that should be a bug in the latex package.

I managed to do this 
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---

 org-preview-latex-default-process is a variable defined in ‘org.el’.
 
 Its value is ‘imagemagick’
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---


--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
org-preview-latex-process-alist

 (imagemagick :programs
              ("latexmk" "convert")
              :description "pdf > png" :message "you need to install the programs: latex and imagemagick." :image-input-type "pdf" :image-output-type "png" :image-size-adjust
              (1.0 . 1.0)
              :latex-compiler
              ("latexmk  -f -pdf  -interaction nonstopmode -output-directory %o %f")
              :image-converter
              ("convert -density %D -trim -antialias %f -quality 100 %O")))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

But:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---

Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error "File \"/tmp/orgtexkNp9XC.pdf\" wasn’t produced.  Please adjust ‘imagemagick’ part of ‘org-preview-latex-process-alist’.")
  signal(error ("File \"/tmp/orgtexkNp9XC.pdf\" wasn’t produced.  Please adjust ‘imagemagick’ part of ‘org-preview-latex-process-alist’."))
  error("File \"/tmp/orgtexkNp9XC.pdf\" wasn't produced.  Please adjust `imagemagick' part of `org-preview-latex-process-alist'.")
  org-compile-file("/tmp/orgtexkNp9XC.tex" ("latexmk  -f -pdf  -interaction nonstopmode -output-directory %o %f") "pdf" "Please adjust `imagemagick' part of `org-preview-latex-process-alist'." #<buffer *Org Preview LaTeX Output*>)
  org-create-formula-image("\\begin{equation*}\n  A^{0}=\n  \\begin{pNiceArray}{C|CCC}[margin]\n    -m^{00}& 0 & 0 & 0\\\\\n    \\hline\n ..." "/home/oub/ALLES/HGs/HG-Org/BUGS/ltximg/org-ltximg_..." (:foreground "black" :background "grey98" :scale 1.5 :html-foreground "Black" :html-background "Transparent" :html-scale 1 :matchers ("begin" "$1" "$" "$$" "\\(" "\\[")) forbuffer imagemagick)
  org-format-latex("ltximg/org-ltximg" 1 404 "/home/oub/ALLES/HGs/HG-Org/BUGS/" overlays nil forbuffer imagemagick)
  org--latex-preview-region(1 404)
  org-latex-preview(nil)
  funcall-interactively(org-latex-preview nil)
  call-interactively(org-latex-preview nil nil)
  command-execute(org-latex-preview)

--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

I am puzzled.



-- 
I strongly condemn Hamas heinous despicable pogroms/atrocities on Israel
I strongly condemn Putin's war of aggression against Ukraine.
I support to deliver weapons to Ukraine's military. 
I support the EU and NATO membership of Ukraine. 

Re: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Karthik Chikmagalur]

> Karthik, may you please check if this is going to work with latex
> preview branch?

Tested: It does not work, since LaTeX only runs once in the new LaTeX preview
system as well.

We can adapt the async process chain to run LaTeX twice (or more), but
we can't figure out when this should happen based on the LaTeX contents.

I'll look into adapting the new system to run latexmk, but I'm not
hopeful.

Karthik

Re: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Uwe Brauer]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 888 bytes --]

>>> "KC" == Karthik Chikmagalur <karthikchikmagalur@gmail.com> writes:

>> Karthik, may you please check if this is going to work with latex
>> preview branch?

> Tested: It does not work, since LaTeX only runs once in the new LaTeX preview
> system as well.

> We can adapt the async process chain to run LaTeX twice (or more), but
> we can't figure out when this should happen based on the LaTeX contents.

> I'll look into adapting the new system to run latexmk, but I'm not
> hopeful.

I am a bit confused. I managed to tweak the configuration for the
imagemagick to satisfy my needs.

Is this not good enough?



-- 
I strongly condemn Hamas heinous despicable pogroms/atrocities on Israel
I strongly condemn Putin's war of aggression against Ukraine.
I support to deliver weapons to Ukraine's military. 
I support the EU and NATO membership of Ukraine. 


[-- Attachment #2: smime.p7s --]
[-- Type: application/pkcs7-signature, Size: 5684 bytes --]

Re: org-latex-preview, pNiceArray (running latex twice)

[Ihor Radchenko]

Karthik Chikmagalur <karthikchikmagalur@gmail.com> writes:

>> Karthik, may you please check if this is going to work with latex
>> preview branch?
>
> Tested: It does not work, since LaTeX only runs once in the new LaTeX preview
> system as well.

You need latexmk -pdf ..., not latexmk -latex.

The latter uses latex command, which pNiceArray is not compatible with.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>