emacs-orgmode@gnu.org archives
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu>
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Citation syntax: a revised proposal
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 09:05:52 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <877fvjm7f3.fsf@berkeley.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 87386775gc.fsf@gmx.us

Hi Rasmus,

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

> 0
>
> Parts I like:  
>
>    1) a parenthetical citation for a single work with no prefix and
>       suffix may be written by just surrounding the key with brackets,
>       like: [@Doe99].
>    2) an in-text citation for a single work with no prefix and suffix
>       may be written as a /bare/ key, without brackets, like: @Doe99.
>
> I recently cracked up something similar for a paper we are working on, and
> I think it's nice.  I have yet to get the verdict from my coauthor,
> though.

Cool. :)

> Parts that I don't care for:
>
>      [cite: whatever (@Doe99) whatever]
>
> Not intuitive to me, but I could get used to it.

It's not super intuitive to me either, and it just occurred to me
yesterday, so maybe there's a better way.  The reason I went this way
was so that we could represent the difference between parenthetical and
in-text citations without moving the cite key and without using
different tags (citet: vs. citep:).  That makes it easy to write a
function that will quickly switch a citation between the two styles,
without using the tag to express the difference, which Nicolas was
worried would slow down the parser.

> Parts I hate:
>
>     The flag is either `@' or `&'.  `@' [...] The optional hyphen (`-') 
>
> Too many weird symbols that I won't be able to remember, much less explain
> to somebody else.

I don't love these either, but I am not sure what a better alternative
would be.  The `@' is vestigial inspiration from Pandoc, and is used
infrequently enough elsewhere in Org syntax that Nicolas at one point
said it would be OK performance-wise to have `@key' appear alone in the
text.  `&' seemed like a natural counterpart for the same reasons, but I
agree it isn't terribly intuitive.  (Though maybe there's one supporting
intuition: `&' is used to introduce keys in URL parameters...)

I disagree with you about the hyphen, but I wouldn't use it enough to
lobby for it (it is just vestigial Pandoc).  If others think we should
take it out, that's fine with me.

>     `%%( ... )'.
>
> Just too odd.  Extensibilty should not be delegated to some weird
> construct outside of the element in question.

Again, I don't exactly love this either, but I chose this syntax because
%%(...) is already used elsewhere in Org to represent embedded
s-expressions (notably in timestamps -- see section 8.1 of the manual).
%(...) is also used for s-expressions in capture templates, though I'm
not sure why the first case uses two `%'s and the second only one.

The only reason to use these delimiters is consistency; I'm not opposed
to something prettier if there's a better alternative.

Keeping this part of the syntax outside the [cite: ...] brackets allows
it to be used with bare keys for simple in-text citations, and prevents
a further syntactic restriction on prefix/suffix text inside the
brackets.  I'm not opposed to moving it inside if that seems really
important, but these two considerations weigh against it in my opinion.

Best,
Richard

  reply	other threads:[~2015-02-15 17:06 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 163+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-02-15  2:29 Citation syntax: a revised proposal Richard Lawrence
2015-02-15  2:45 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-15  3:57 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-15 16:40   ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-15 19:43     ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-16  3:34       ` Matt Price
2015-02-16  8:56         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-16  9:57         ` Rasmus
2015-02-17 17:18       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-17 18:11         ` Rasmus
2015-02-18  0:44           ` Matt Price
2015-02-18  3:38           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-18  2:24         ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-18  4:03           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-18  9:00             ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-18 10:11             ` Eric S Fraga
2015-02-18 14:19             ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-18 16:38               ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-18 18:44                 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-18 18:46                   ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-18 20:54                   ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-18 21:21                     ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-18 21:24                     ` John Kitchin
2015-02-18 19:42                 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-18 20:47                   ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-18 22:43                     ` Rasmus
2015-02-18 22:35                   ` Rasmus
2015-02-19 17:06                   ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-20  0:10                     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-20 16:44                       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-20 19:45                         ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-20 20:01                           ` Rasmus
2015-02-20 22:33                             ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-21 11:58                               ` Rasmus
2015-02-21 17:25                                 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-27  0:56                                 ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-27  8:55                                   ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-27  9:56                                   ` Rasmus
2015-02-21  3:12                           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-21 12:00                             ` Rasmus
2015-02-21 20:19                             ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-21 20:36                             ` Samuel Wales
2015-02-25 13:59                         ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-25 16:57                           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-25 22:37                             ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-26  5:10                               ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-01 20:35                                 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-01 21:31                                   ` Rasmus
2015-03-02  0:24                                     ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-02  8:57                                       ` Eric S Fraga
2015-03-02  1:37                                     ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-02  9:23                                       ` Rasmus
2015-03-02 19:11                                     ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 20:15                                       ` Rasmus
2015-03-03  3:14                                       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03  5:33                                         ` Avram Lyon
2015-03-03 17:27                                           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03 17:56                                             ` Avram Lyon
2015-03-04 16:41                                               ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03  9:24                                         ` Rasmus
2015-03-03  9:39                                           ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 14:12                                         ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 18:50                                   ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-02 20:14                                     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-02 20:34                                       ` Rasmus
2015-03-02 22:17                                         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-02 22:33                                           ` Rasmus
2015-03-02 22:45                                             ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-02 23:05                                               ` Rasmus
2015-03-02 23:27                                                 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-02 23:42                                                   ` Rasmus
2015-03-03  2:48                                       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03  8:43                                         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-03 16:59                                           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-04  0:43                                           ` Matt Price
2015-03-08  0:16                                         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-03 14:23                                     ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 18:54                                   ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 20:26                                     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-03  2:53                                       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03  8:38                                         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-03  9:13                                           ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 16:12                                             ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-03 14:25                                       ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 20:53                                     ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 14:57                                       ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-03 15:41                                         ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 15:58                                           ` Ken Mankoff
2015-03-03 16:08                                             ` Rasmus
2015-03-03 17:13                                         ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-10  3:44                                     ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-10  9:49                                       ` Rasmus
2015-03-11  1:51                                         ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-11  6:04                                           ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-10 16:31                                       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-11  2:21                                         ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-11 17:33                                           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-13 18:13                                             ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-17  5:15                                               ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-17  9:27                                                 ` Andreas Leha
2015-03-17 16:26                                                   ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-17 20:42                                                     ` Andreas Leha
2015-03-17 21:34                                                       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-03-18  1:12                                                     ` Matt Price
2015-03-18 15:19                                                       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-25 18:08                           ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-26 21:30                             ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-26 23:50                               ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-27  8:49                               ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-27 16:35                                 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-27 10:09                               ` Rasmus
2015-03-02  5:48                               ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-02 12:22                                 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-03-02 13:53                                   ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-02 19:02                                     ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-20  5:27                     ` Melanie Bacou
2015-02-20 16:49                       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-24  7:08         ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-02-25  4:29           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-25  5:57             ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-02-15 11:17 ` Tory S. Anderson
2015-02-15 11:57 ` Rasmus
2015-02-15 17:05   ` Richard Lawrence [this message]
2015-02-16  8:53     ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-16 17:52       ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-15 17:23   ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-09 10:40     ` Sebastien Vauban
2015-03-09 10:50       ` Vaidheeswaran C
2015-02-15 17:19 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-15 17:37   ` Rasmus
2015-02-15 17:55     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-15 19:30     ` John Kitchin
2015-02-15 18:07   ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-15 18:25     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-15 19:05       ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-15 19:18         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-15 19:38           ` Aaron Ecay
2015-02-15 20:13             ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-15 20:23               ` Rasmus
2015-02-16  9:07               ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-16 16:59               ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-16 17:43                 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-16 18:39                   ` Rasmus
2015-02-16 19:16                     ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-02-16 19:40                       ` Rasmus
2015-02-15 20:49 ` John Kitchin
2015-02-16 16:18   ` Richard Lawrence
2015-02-16 18:21     ` John Kitchin
2015-02-16 12:05 ` Eric S Fraga
2015-02-16 13:10   ` William Denton
2015-02-16 13:42   ` John Kitchin
2015-02-16 16:19     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-02-16 17:28       ` John Kitchin
2015-02-16 18:49         ` Rasmus
2015-02-16 19:16           ` John Kitchin
2015-02-23  7:26       ` Vaidheeswaran
2015-02-16 16:35     ` Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo
2015-02-16 17:56       ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-16 18:24         ` John Kitchin
2015-02-16 18:39           ` Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo
2015-02-16 19:19         ` Jorge A. Alfaro-Murillo
2015-02-17  6:47           ` Stefan Nobis
2015-02-16 16:45   ` Richard Lawrence

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://www.orgmode.org/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=877fvjm7f3.fsf@berkeley.edu \
    --to=richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu \
    --cc=emacs-orgmode@gnu.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).