From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id 4K+lFWcfsl/NKwAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 06:42:47 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id 8D6DEWcfsl93RQAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 06:42:47 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCDEB940538 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 06:42:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:42002 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1keYDs-0005UL-LL for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 01:42:44 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35344) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1keYCz-0005Tx-7u for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 01:41:49 -0500 Received: from mail-pf1-x430.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::430]:44461) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1keYCs-0005sx-IR for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 01:41:48 -0500 Received: by mail-pf1-x430.google.com with SMTP id y7so13189485pfq.11 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 22:41:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=references:user-agent:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:date :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Dwf2BoOg4mwYKY0+Os09oWIiM/y2epjLWD5brwTewqY=; b=oOrFsqii6k/Ou/cncKSLt/3XhV8TzFAR/lIG3fB9kddTzXCfRKr/qKb01NxcK2Dv5o w2JhVQWTqdt86pu9w3u6n4rnNSZ0pHn/ZvvWMy8X6r90kaR0uVhhZbR3sioVUlCiCTp+ 3/Uj4TK6Abg7WZvEEzKlUZaGWc1vKLOTt2FTdlxyYEd7v3d+ReZin0vKPVlcE6gMORLk TMP9GR4cbnGmR3XBSjRJofw6kenX7HxzUzVftCgDDZOXahycBSUCE2zM4c8ieIKp754+ N+oXLZrIMT9xjkez4okXh6cuYWsf0/p61JH4DrcbaMf4JARQjfhvqikR0XEKx3OAmVbW iHpQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:subject :in-reply-to:message-id:date:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Dwf2BoOg4mwYKY0+Os09oWIiM/y2epjLWD5brwTewqY=; b=SKCj0r5sWAcB4Ep/3lih5JtZ0J0Fx72Ye8mv9Cyo1R/ugxUeEinm8Bbosi8HCqNjL4 Poh564lvfDmSM97dj3VZdVumsJAP11udGdpDHZesmWUaP4LFoyE+ZSwMx9M8eP/rbtj4 PuCVux0FBKmP9lrzOj+zBosNfxdSlTtXehPAKnTV5iBcmcHPjlrutSNTvp0suMmfDa2s Sq6keKQUhC0XvBNqjViyVyBB4tZKQhwsvDNVocvxelF5YxVLyicAnT2fqW17xgZV+XRA Lr6qLFfZPbq2LxNpvZKoFXM7AaaVwHxoKBDkh7Tv85zyGCnp0yXlU59oH/nUvGRlxaOd KsBA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533fWQiVwZs4ExTZ4bbHEUSMIgSCZwwgJqYWLlzptE6y2whkAEEW 7hEMfduuhCwdh2YWTNdbe7XsMuW0ayeyqw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw8dddn5eZj03xeLey70uzMwapVtDzy9ZtG1IhmOX40c65f3sO/fj0c7NjC6PqWzXIiQZcShQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:3648:: with SMTP id nh8mr13635313pjb.27.1605508900538; Sun, 15 Nov 2020 22:41:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from tim-desktop (220-235-14-97.dyn.iinet.net.au. [220.235.14.97]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q15sm15170272pgk.93.2020.11.15.22.41.38 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 15 Nov 2020 22:41:39 -0800 (PST) References: <2020-11-13T18-23-43@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> <874klqew77.fsf@web.de> <20201115122154.50ad1503@linux-h0yu.fritz.box> <87tutq67ka.fsf@gmail.com> <87tutpvppm.fsf@kyleam.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.5.7; emacs 27.1.50 From: Tim Cross To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Changed list indentation behavior: how to revert? In-reply-to: <87tutpvppm.fsf@kyleam.com> Message-ID: <877dqlby74.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 17:41:35 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::430; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x430.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=oOrFsqii; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.71 X-TUID: FNj0VKJcvWDX Kyle Meyer writes: > K=C3=A9vin Le Gouguec writes: > >> Detlef Steuer writes: >> Note that indenting section bodies by default predates Org 9.4: in Org >> 9.3, hitting TAB on the first line of text after a heading indents it to >> column LEVEL+1. > > Yes, org-adapt-indentation has been around (with a default of t) since > 4be4c5623 (version 4.12a, 2008-01-31). > >> IMHO, the default value of org-adapt-indentation might be the issue here >> (made more visible by the change in 9.4): I agree that hard-indenting >> prose should not be the default behaviour. FWIW the .dir-locals.el file >> at the root of Org's own repository sets this variable to nil; maybe >> that suggests that it would be a better default? > > Perhaps. I certainly prefer org-adapt-indentation at nil and would vote > for that if we were introducing the option today, but this would be > changing a longstanding default. > > So, it seems that changing Org to honor electric-indent-mode is now > making some users aware of org-adapt-indentation and that its default > value is not what they want. Thanks for clarifying this Kyle. So essentially, this change has been made to make org-mode consistent with the rest of emacs which enabled electric-indent by default in Emacs 24. this is a good thing. Org should be consistent with other modes. Any differences are likely to be the source of confusion and bug reports. I am a little confused about the purpose of org-adapt-indentation though. According to the org news file, to get back the old behaviour, it says to explicity disable electric-indent mode using org-mode-hook. There is no mention of org-adapt-indentation. Is this just an artefact from before and in effect, we have two methods to disable the indentation behaviour? Is there anything functionally different between disabling electric-indent by calling electric-indent-local-mode -1 or setting org-adapt-indent to nil or is the result functionally equivalent? Tim -- Tim Cross