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* New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
@ 2020-06-05  7:47 Bastien
  2020-06-05  8:43 ` Marco Wahl
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Bastien @ 2020-06-05  7:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Dear all,

with Kyle's help, I've set up a new mailing list archive:

https://orgmode/list/

References in https://orgmode.org and https://orgmode.org/list
that pointed to gmane.org are now using this, so many links are
functional again.

Best,

-- 
 Bastien


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-05  7:47 New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/ Bastien
@ 2020-06-05  8:43 ` Marco Wahl
  2020-06-06  8:15   ` Bastien
  2020-06-05  9:39 ` Eric S Fraga
  2020-06-05 15:47 ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Marco Wahl @ 2020-06-05  8:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bastien, Kyle Meyer; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Hi!

> with Kyle's help, I've set up a new mailing list archive:
>
> https://orgmode/list/
>
> References in https://orgmode.org and https://orgmode.org/list
> that pointed to gmane.org are now using this, so many links are
> functional again.

Thanks!

May I take the occasion to ask naively about the "Archived-At:" line in
the header of mails on the orgmode mailing list, please?

E.g. I see the line

	Archived-At: <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/129773>

Could this line be forged to point to the newly created location within
https://orgmode.org/list?

I think this would be beneficial since

1. there is nothing at
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/129773 AFAICS.

2. one could easily reference emails.


Best regards and thanks again,
-- Marco


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-05  7:47 New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/ Bastien
  2020-06-05  8:43 ` Marco Wahl
@ 2020-06-05  9:39 ` Eric S Fraga
  2020-06-05 10:51   ` Bastien
  2020-06-05 15:47 ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2020-06-05  9:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

On Friday,  5 Jun 2020 at 09:47, Bastien wrote:
> with Kyle's help, I've set up a new mailing list archive:
>
> https://orgmode/list/

For the record, I guess you meant https://orgmode.org/list

-- 
: Eric S Fraga via Emacs 28.0.50, Org release_9.3.6-640-g9bc0cc


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-05  9:39 ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2020-06-05 10:51   ` Bastien
  2020-06-05 11:24     ` Diego Zamboni
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Bastien @ 2020-06-05 10:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric S Fraga; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> On Friday,  5 Jun 2020 at 09:47, Bastien wrote:
>> with Kyle's help, I've set up a new mailing list archive:
>>
>> https://orgmode/list/
>
> For the record, I guess you meant https://orgmode.org/list

Sure, sorry for the typo!

-- 
 Bastien


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-05 10:51   ` Bastien
@ 2020-06-05 11:24     ` Diego Zamboni
  2020-06-05 14:04       ` Bastien
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Diego Zamboni @ 2020-06-05 11:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bastien; +Cc: Org-mode, Eric S Fraga

Hi Bastien,

> > On Friday,  5 Jun 2020 at 09:47, Bastien wrote:
> >> with Kyle's help, I've set up a new mailing list archive:
> >>
> >> https://orgmode/list/

Thanks for setting this up.

I noticed that I am getting in master the following error when I do "make doc":

> make doc
/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/usr/bin/make -C doc info
makeinfo --no-split org.texi -o org
org.texi:18233: unknown command `somewhere'
make[1]: *** [org] Error 1

This seems to be caused by commit
fa4dddf8d29063dbd2161b7f33a776e2c063ed10, which introduced the
following change in a link to a list message (I don't know enough texi
syntax to suggest a fix):

--- a/doc/org-manual.org
+++ b/doc/org-manual.org
@@ -17104,7 +17104,7 @@ cause unexpected results.

-reasons why, see http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/79046.
+reasons why, see https://orgmode.org/list/86fvqqc8jb.fsf@somewhere.org

Best,
--Diego


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-05 11:24     ` Diego Zamboni
@ 2020-06-05 14:04       ` Bastien
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Bastien @ 2020-06-05 14:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Diego Zamboni; +Cc: Org-mode, Eric S Fraga

Hi Diego,

Diego Zamboni <diego@zzamboni.org> writes:

> I noticed that I am getting in master the following error when I do
> "make doc":

thanks for reporting this -- it was a problem in the ox-texinfo.el
exporter, not escaping the "@" char correctly.

This is now fixed in maint.

-- 
 Bastien


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-05  7:47 New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/ Bastien
  2020-06-05  8:43 ` Marco Wahl
  2020-06-05  9:39 ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2020-06-05 15:47 ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2020-06-08  3:29   ` Kyle Meyer
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2020-06-05 15:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bastien; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:

> Dear all,
>
> with Kyle's help, I've set up a new mailing list archive:
>
> https://orgmode/list/
>
> References in https://orgmode.org and https://orgmode.org/list
> that pointed to gmane.org are now using this, so many links are
> functional again.

Cool! I note that there's also NNTP access at news.yhetil.org, in
addition to gmane.io. Does yhetil have a search interface, or are there
other mechanisms for searching the archives (ideally in Gnus :))?


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-05  8:43 ` Marco Wahl
@ 2020-06-06  8:15   ` Bastien
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Bastien @ 2020-06-06  8:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Marco Wahl; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Hi Marco,

Marco Wahl <marcowahlsoft@gmail.com> writes:

> E.g. I see the line
>
> 	Archived-At: <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/129773>
>
> Could this line be forged to point to the newly created location within
> https://orgmode.org/list?

Yes, this header needs to be fixed.  

Note that it is not set by mailman itself, so mailman admins cannot
fix it.  I'll discuss this with gmane.io maintainers.

-- 
 Bastien


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-05 15:47 ` Eric Abrahamsen
@ 2020-06-08  3:29   ` Kyle Meyer
  2020-06-08  4:39     ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2020-06-08  4:47     ` Eric Wong
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Kyle Meyer @ 2020-06-08  3:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric Abrahamsen; +Cc: Bastien, emacs-orgmode, Eric Wong

[ +cc Eric Wong, mostly to say thanks for all the work he puts into
  public-inbox, which is the software behind these archives, but also so
  that he can correct me if I misrepresent any capabilities of or plans
  for public-inbox ]

> Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> with Kyle's help, I've set up a new mailing list archive:
>>
>> https://orgmode/list/
>>
>> References in https://orgmode.org and https://orgmode.org/list
>> that pointed to gmane.org are now using this, so many links are
>> functional again.
>
> Cool! I note that there's also NNTP access at news.yhetil.org, in
> addition to gmane.io. Does yhetil have a search interface, or are there
> other mechanisms for searching the archives (ideally in Gnus :))?

The web interface (<https://orgmode.org/list> or
<https://yhetil.org/orgmode>) is the main mechanism for searching.  You
don't necessarily have to leave Emacs for that, as public-inbox's pages
render nicely in EWW.  But of course that's not the Gnus-based search
you're hoping for.

I use Gnus to follow some lists via NNTP, a mix of public-inbox archives
and gmane.io, but I've never really done any fancy searching from it and
don't use Gnus for my mail.  To try it out, I hit GG to search on a
gmane.io list, but got an error [^1], so I suppose its search capability
went away with Gmane's HTTP interface.

Poking around a bit, I guess nnweb.el would be the main place that
public-inbox's web search could be integrated into Gnus?  I've been
(slowly) working on an Emacs package [^2] that adds public-inbox-related
functionality to different "endpoints" (currently Notmuch, Gnus, EWW,
Elfeed), and I'd be interested in any ideas for improving the Gnus
support.

A couple of other notes:

  * You can get the entire archive locally with a 'git clone', in which
    case you can transform it into a form that can be indexed/searched
    however you prefer (including with public-inbox, running a local
    public-inbox-httpd).  There are some pointers on extracting an
    archive to a Maildir at
    <https://public-inbox.org/meta/20200426060542.GA15896@dcvr/>.

  * In the message above, Eric W. mentions that he is considering
    working on client tools with mairix-like search results.  That'd
    make the search capabilities available locally, and I'd imagine
    something like that could be nicely integrated with Gnus,
    considering it already has a mairix backend to use as a guide.


[^1] open-network-stream: search.gmane.org/80 Name or service not known

     This was with Emacs 26.3, and it seems like this interface went
     away entirely in Emacs 27 with 37f0f114df (Remove the Gmane backend
     from nnir, 2018-04-11).

[^2] https://git.kyleam.com/piem/about/


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-08  3:29   ` Kyle Meyer
@ 2020-06-08  4:39     ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2020-06-08  4:55       ` Eric Wong
  2020-06-08  4:47     ` Eric Wong
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2020-06-08  4:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kyle Meyer; +Cc: Bastien, emacs-orgmode, Eric Wong

Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> writes:

> [ +cc Eric Wong, mostly to say thanks for all the work he puts into
>   public-inbox, which is the software behind these archives, but also so
>   that he can correct me if I misrepresent any capabilities of or plans
>   for public-inbox ]

Thanks for this response, Kyle (and thanks for public-inbox, Eric)!

>> Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>>> with Kyle's help, I've set up a new mailing list archive:
>>>
>>> https://orgmode/list/
>>>
>>> References in https://orgmode.org and https://orgmode.org/list
>>> that pointed to gmane.org are now using this, so many links are
>>> functional again.
>>
>> Cool! I note that there's also NNTP access at news.yhetil.org, in
>> addition to gmane.io. Does yhetil have a search interface, or are there
>> other mechanisms for searching the archives (ideally in Gnus :))?
>
> The web interface (<https://orgmode.org/list> or
> <https://yhetil.org/orgmode>) is the main mechanism for searching.  You
> don't necessarily have to leave Emacs for that, as public-inbox's pages
> render nicely in EWW.  But of course that's not the Gnus-based search
> you're hoping for.
>
> I use Gnus to follow some lists via NNTP, a mix of public-inbox archives
> and gmane.io, but I've never really done any fancy searching from it and
> don't use Gnus for my mail.  To try it out, I hit GG to search on a
> gmane.io list, but got an error [^1], so I suppose its search capability
> went away with Gmane's HTTP interface.

Yup, Gmane hasn't had in-Gnus search since then.

> Poking around a bit, I guess nnweb.el would be the main place that
> public-inbox's web search could be integrated into Gnus?  I've been
> (slowly) working on an Emacs package [^2] that adds public-inbox-related
> functionality to different "endpoints" (currently Notmuch, Gnus, EWW,
> Elfeed), and I'd be interested in any ideas for improving the Gnus
> support.

You wouldn't really use one backend (nnweb) to provide search support
for another (nntp). nnir can assign different search engines to
different backends -- what a "search engine" boils down to is a function
that accepts group search criteria, and returns groups and article
numbers (and optional relevance scoring) for matching messages. So if
public-inbox had some sort of an API that accepted a query and returned
the above information in some sort of easily-digestible format, it
wouldn't be hard to write a engine for it. Articles referenced in the
search results would then be retrieved via NNTP, so the article numbers
would need to correspond.

(Basically this is all the old Gmane search functionality did.)

> A couple of other notes:
>
>   * You can get the entire archive locally with a 'git clone', in which
>     case you can transform it into a form that can be indexed/searched
>     however you prefer (including with public-inbox, running a local
>     public-inbox-httpd).  There are some pointers on extracting an
>     archive to a Maildir at
>     <https://public-inbox.org/meta/20200426060542.GA15896@dcvr/>.

That would certainly be one approach! But not one that scales to many
users :)

>   * In the message above, Eric W. mentions that he is considering
>     working on client tools with mairix-like search results.  That'd
>     make the search capabilities available locally, and I'd imagine
>     something like that could be nicely integrated with Gnus,
>     considering it already has a mairix backend to use as a guide.

Yup, basically we'd just want a way to retrieve matching article numbers
that (ideally) didn't involve scraping a web page.

Thanks again,
Eric


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-08  3:29   ` Kyle Meyer
  2020-06-08  4:39     ` Eric Abrahamsen
@ 2020-06-08  4:47     ` Eric Wong
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Eric Wong @ 2020-06-08  4:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kyle Meyer; +Cc: Eric Abrahamsen, Bastien, emacs-orgmode

Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> wrote:
> [ +cc Eric Wong, mostly to say thanks for all the work he puts into
>   public-inbox, which is the software behind these archives, but also so
>   that he can correct me if I misrepresent any capabilities of or plans
>   for public-inbox ]
> 
> > Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:
> >
> >> with Kyle's help, I've set up a new mailing list archive:
> >>
> >> https://orgmode/list/
> >>
> >> References in https://orgmode.org and https://orgmode.org/list
> >> that pointed to gmane.org are now using this, so many links are
> >> functional again.
> >
> > Cool! I note that there's also NNTP access at news.yhetil.org, in
> > addition to gmane.io. Does yhetil have a search interface, or are there
> > other mechanisms for searching the archives (ideally in Gnus :))?
> 
> The web interface (<https://orgmode.org/list> or
> <https://yhetil.org/orgmode>) is the main mechanism for searching.  You
> don't necessarily have to leave Emacs for that, as public-inbox's pages
> render nicely in EWW.  But of course that's not the Gnus-based search
> you're hoping for.
> 
> I use Gnus to follow some lists via NNTP, a mix of public-inbox archives
> and gmane.io, but I've never really done any fancy searching from it and
> don't use Gnus for my mail.  To try it out, I hit GG to search on a
> gmane.io list, but got an error [^1], so I suppose its search capability
> went away with Gmane's HTTP interface.
> 
> Poking around a bit, I guess nnweb.el would be the main place that
> public-inbox's web search could be integrated into Gnus?  I've been
> (slowly) working on an Emacs package [^2] that adds public-inbox-related
> functionality to different "endpoints" (currently Notmuch, Gnus, EWW,
> Elfeed), and I'd be interested in any ideas for improving the Gnus
> support.

Cool.  I'm not at all familiar with Emacs or Gnus but I"m glad
it works for users of that.

There'll be an alternative search API in addition to what
currently exists over HTTP (and what's brewing with IMAP).
Maybe JMAP and/or GraphQL, or something with JSON which seems to
be favored nowadays.

I'll need to do some research as I'm not familiar with either
JMAP or GraphQL.

> A couple of other notes:
> 
>   * You can get the entire archive locally with a 'git clone', in which
>     case you can transform it into a form that can be indexed/searched
>     however you prefer (including with public-inbox, running a local
>     public-inbox-httpd).  There are some pointers on extracting an
>     archive to a Maildir at
>     <https://public-inbox.org/meta/20200426060542.GA15896@dcvr/>.
> 
>   * In the message above, Eric W. mentions that he is considering
>     working on client tools with mairix-like search results.  That'd
>     make the search capabilities available locally, and I'd imagine
>     something like that could be nicely integrated with Gnus,
>     considering it already has a mairix backend to use as a guide.

Yes, definitely going to work on a mairix workalike this
summer/fall.  To be effective, there first needs to be a global
search that works seamlessly across multiple inboxes.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-08  4:39     ` Eric Abrahamsen
@ 2020-06-08  4:55       ` Eric Wong
  2020-06-12 16:08         ` Eric Abrahamsen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Eric Wong @ 2020-06-08  4:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric Abrahamsen; +Cc: Bastien, emacs-orgmode

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:
> Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> writes:
> 
> > [ +cc Eric Wong, mostly to say thanks for all the work he puts into
> >   public-inbox, which is the software behind these archives, but also so
> >   that he can correct me if I misrepresent any capabilities of or plans
> >   for public-inbox ]
> 
> Thanks for this response, Kyle (and thanks for public-inbox, Eric)!

you're welcome, both :>

> You wouldn't really use one backend (nnweb) to provide search support
> for another (nntp). nnir can assign different search engines to
> different backends -- what a "search engine" boils down to is a function
> that accepts group search criteria, and returns groups and article
> numbers (and optional relevance scoring) for matching messages. So if
> public-inbox had some sort of an API that accepted a query and returned
> the above information in some sort of easily-digestible format, it
> wouldn't be hard to write a engine for it. Articles referenced in the
> search results would then be retrieved via NNTP, so the article numbers
> would need to correspond.

Fwiw, I've been trying to avoid exposing NNTP article numbers in
the HTTP endpoint in favor of Message-IDs because serial numbers
aren't decentralization-friendly.  Of course, sometimes
Message-IDs get reused, so public-inbox will return all messages
which match a particular Message-ID in those rare cases.

Btw, POST with the "&x=m" query parameter already allows search
to return a gzipped mboxrd.

And also what I just wrote about about JMAP/GraphQL in the other
message.

A read-only IMAP server is also coming with search support,
and IMAP UIDs will be equivalent to NNTP article numbers.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-08  4:55       ` Eric Wong
@ 2020-06-12 16:08         ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2020-06-14  6:17           ` Kyle Meyer
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2020-06-12 16:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

Eric Wong <e@yhbt.net> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:
>> Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> writes:
>> 
>> > [ +cc Eric Wong, mostly to say thanks for all the work he puts into
>> >   public-inbox, which is the software behind these archives, but also so
>> >   that he can correct me if I misrepresent any capabilities of or plans
>> >   for public-inbox ]
>> 
>> Thanks for this response, Kyle (and thanks for public-inbox, Eric)!
>
> you're welcome, both :>
>
>> You wouldn't really use one backend (nnweb) to provide search support
>> for another (nntp). nnir can assign different search engines to
>> different backends -- what a "search engine" boils down to is a function
>> that accepts group search criteria, and returns groups and article
>> numbers (and optional relevance scoring) for matching messages. So if
>> public-inbox had some sort of an API that accepted a query and returned
>> the above information in some sort of easily-digestible format, it
>> wouldn't be hard to write a engine for it. Articles referenced in the
>> search results would then be retrieved via NNTP, so the article numbers
>> would need to correspond.
>
> Fwiw, I've been trying to avoid exposing NNTP article numbers in
> the HTTP endpoint in favor of Message-IDs because serial numbers
> aren't decentralization-friendly.  Of course, sometimes
> Message-IDs get reused, so public-inbox will return all messages
> which match a particular Message-ID in those rare cases.
>
> Btw, POST with the "&x=m" query parameter already allows search
> to return a gzipped mboxrd.
>
> And also what I just wrote about about JMAP/GraphQL in the other
> message.
>
> A read-only IMAP server is also coming with search support,
> and IMAP UIDs will be equivalent to NNTP article numbers.

Sounds like something in there is bound to work! IMAP might be best --
while it's certainly possible to do Message-ID<->article number lookups,
that will slow Gnus down further, and it's already fairly slow.

Thanks again,
Eric



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-12 16:08         ` Eric Abrahamsen
@ 2020-06-14  6:17           ` Kyle Meyer
  2020-06-18 16:39             ` Eric Abrahamsen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Kyle Meyer @ 2020-06-14  6:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric Abrahamsen; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, Eric Wong

[ adding Eric Wong back to the cc ]

Eric Abrahamsen writes:

> Eric Wong <e@yhbt.net> writes:
>> Fwiw, I've been trying to avoid exposing NNTP article numbers in
>> the HTTP endpoint in favor of Message-IDs because serial numbers
>> aren't decentralization-friendly.  Of course, sometimes
>> Message-IDs get reused, so public-inbox will return all messages
>> which match a particular Message-ID in those rare cases.
>>
>> Btw, POST with the "&x=m" query parameter already allows search
>> to return a gzipped mboxrd.
>>
>> And also what I just wrote about about JMAP/GraphQL in the other
>> message.
>>
>> A read-only IMAP server is also coming with search support,
>> and IMAP UIDs will be equivalent to NNTP article numbers.
>
> Sounds like something in there is bound to work! IMAP might be best --
> while it's certainly possible to do Message-ID<->article number lookups,
> that will slow Gnus down further, and it's already fairly slow.
>
> Thanks again,
> Eric

Here are the recent patches that Eric sent out related to the read-only
IMAP server:

  https://public-inbox.org/meta/20200610070519.18252-1-e@yhbt.net

It's already available at <imaps://news.public-inbox.org/>.  I've played
around with that a bit in Mutt and Gnus, and it seems to work nicely.
As I mentioned before, I don't really search much in Gnus, but I tried
some basic queries via GG and the results looked reasonable.

I set this up for news.yhetil.org tonight.  Here's what I used to test
it out:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
;; Set so that all groups/folders aren't subscribed and synced.  Think
;; I should be able to prevent that with `gnus-options-not-subscribe'
;; or `gnus-auto-subscribed-groups', but didn't have any luck.
(setq gnus-check-new-newsgroups nil)

(setq gnus-select-method '(nnimap "news.yhetil.org"
                                  ;; no certs yet
                                  (nnimap-stream plain)))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-14  6:17           ` Kyle Meyer
@ 2020-06-18 16:39             ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2020-06-18 17:11               ` Kyle Meyer
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2020-06-18 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kyle Meyer; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, Eric Wong

Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> writes:

> [ adding Eric Wong back to the cc ]
>
> Eric Abrahamsen writes:
>
>> Eric Wong <e@yhbt.net> writes:
>>> Fwiw, I've been trying to avoid exposing NNTP article numbers in
>>> the HTTP endpoint in favor of Message-IDs because serial numbers
>>> aren't decentralization-friendly.  Of course, sometimes
>>> Message-IDs get reused, so public-inbox will return all messages
>>> which match a particular Message-ID in those rare cases.
>>>
>>> Btw, POST with the "&x=m" query parameter already allows search
>>> to return a gzipped mboxrd.
>>>
>>> And also what I just wrote about about JMAP/GraphQL in the other
>>> message.
>>>
>>> A read-only IMAP server is also coming with search support,
>>> and IMAP UIDs will be equivalent to NNTP article numbers.
>>
>> Sounds like something in there is bound to work! IMAP might be best --
>> while it's certainly possible to do Message-ID<->article number lookups,
>> that will slow Gnus down further, and it's already fairly slow.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Eric
>
> Here are the recent patches that Eric sent out related to the read-only
> IMAP server:
>
>   https://public-inbox.org/meta/20200610070519.18252-1-e@yhbt.net
>
> It's already available at <imaps://news.public-inbox.org/>.  I've played
> around with that a bit in Mutt and Gnus, and it seems to work nicely.
> As I mentioned before, I don't really search much in Gnus, but I tried
> some basic queries via GG and the results looked reasonable.
>
> I set this up for news.yhetil.org tonight.  Here's what I used to test
> it out:
>
> ;; Set so that all groups/folders aren't subscribed and synced.  Think
> ;; I should be able to prevent that with `gnus-options-not-subscribe'
> ;; or `gnus-auto-subscribed-groups', but didn't have any luck.
> (setq gnus-check-new-newsgroups nil)
>
> (setq gnus-select-method '(nnimap "news.yhetil.org"
>                                   ;; no certs yet
>                                   (nnimap-stream plain)))

Hmm, I tried this (adding to `gnus-secondary-select-methods'), and got:

Warning: Opening nnimap server on news.yhetil.org...failed: NO Mailbox
doesn't exist: DOES.NOT.EXIST (0.001 + 0.000 secs).; Unable to open
server nnimap+news.yhetil.org due to: make client process failed:
Network is unreachable, :name, *nnimap*, :buffer, *nnimap
news.yhetil.org nil *nntpd**, :host, news.yhetil.org, :service, imap,
:coding, nil

The "mailbox doesn't exist" thing seems to be misleading: further
attempts to connect to the server just gave me "network is unreachable".
I wonder if this has something to do with my tls settings? I'll set
`gnutls-log-level' to 2 and try again... Nope, same error.

This is on Emacs master, I'm not sure what else I can check (though I
still suspect it's something to do with connection security).

Eric


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-18 16:39             ` Eric Abrahamsen
@ 2020-06-18 17:11               ` Kyle Meyer
  2020-06-18 17:18                 ` Eric Abrahamsen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Kyle Meyer @ 2020-06-18 17:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric Abrahamsen; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, Eric Wong

Eric Abrahamsen writes:

> Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> writes:
>
>> (setq gnus-select-method '(nnimap "news.yhetil.org"
>>                                   ;; no certs yet
>>                                   (nnimap-stream plain)))
>
> Hmm, I tried this (adding to `gnus-secondary-select-methods'), and got:
>
> Warning: Opening nnimap server on news.yhetil.org...failed: NO Mailbox
> doesn't exist: DOES.NOT.EXIST (0.001 + 0.000 secs).; Unable to open
> server nnimap+news.yhetil.org due to: make client process failed:
> Network is unreachable, :name, *nnimap*, :buffer, *nnimap
> news.yhetil.org nil *nntpd**, :host, news.yhetil.org, :service, imap,
> :coding, nil
>
> The "mailbox doesn't exist" thing seems to be misleading: further
> attempts to connect to the server just gave me "network is unreachable".
> I wonder if this has something to do with my tls settings? I'll set
> `gnutls-log-level' to 2 and try again... Nope, same error.
>
> This is on Emacs master, I'm not sure what else I can check (though I
> still suspect it's something to do with connection security).

Sorry, I switched it over to using a cert last night.  I should have
sent a message here.  Hopefully just having

    (nnimap "news.yhetil.org")

in gnus-secondary-select-methods will work for you.  I tried just now,
and it worked on my end (Emacs 26.3).


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-18 17:11               ` Kyle Meyer
@ 2020-06-18 17:18                 ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2020-06-18 17:43                   ` Colin Baxter
  2020-06-19  3:01                   ` Kyle Meyer
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2020-06-18 17:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kyle Meyer; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, Eric Wong

Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen writes:
>
>> Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> writes:
>>
>>> (setq gnus-select-method '(nnimap "news.yhetil.org"
>>>                                   ;; no certs yet
>>>                                   (nnimap-stream plain)))
>>
>> Hmm, I tried this (adding to `gnus-secondary-select-methods'), and got:
>>
>> Warning: Opening nnimap server on news.yhetil.org...failed: NO Mailbox
>> doesn't exist: DOES.NOT.EXIST (0.001 + 0.000 secs).; Unable to open
>> server nnimap+news.yhetil.org due to: make client process failed:
>> Network is unreachable, :name, *nnimap*, :buffer, *nnimap
>> news.yhetil.org nil *nntpd**, :host, news.yhetil.org, :service, imap,
>> :coding, nil
>>
>> The "mailbox doesn't exist" thing seems to be misleading: further
>> attempts to connect to the server just gave me "network is unreachable".
>> I wonder if this has something to do with my tls settings? I'll set
>> `gnutls-log-level' to 2 and try again... Nope, same error.
>>
>> This is on Emacs master, I'm not sure what else I can check (though I
>> still suspect it's something to do with connection security).
>
> Sorry, I switched it over to using a cert last night.  I should have
> sent a message here.  Hopefully just having
>
>     (nnimap "news.yhetil.org")
>
> in gnus-secondary-select-methods will work for you.  I tried just now,
> and it worked on my end (Emacs 26.3).

Hey, that works great! It's a bit weird that it still asks for a
username and password, I wonder if there's any way to skip that. I've
never dealt with anonymous IMAP before -- is there anything in the
connection process that explicitly tells us "you don't need to log on"?
Otherwise, I guess it doesn't hurt just to save a bogus
username/password and forget about it.

The whole thing (connection, search, display) is also significantly
faster than gmane :)

Eric


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-18 17:18                 ` Eric Abrahamsen
@ 2020-06-18 17:43                   ` Colin Baxter
  2020-06-19  3:01                   ` Kyle Meyer
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Colin Baxter @ 2020-06-18 17:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric Abrahamsen; +Cc: , emacs-orgmode, Eric Wong

>>>>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

    > Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> writes:
    >> Eric Abrahamsen writes:
    >> 
    >>> Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> writes:
    >>> 
    >>>> (setq gnus-select-method '(nnimap "news.yhetil.org" ;; no certs
    >>>> yet (nnimap-stream plain)))
    >>> 
    >>> Hmm, I tried this (adding to `gnus-secondary-select-methods'),
    >>> and got:
    >>> 
    >>> Warning: Opening nnimap server on news.yhetil.org...failed: NO
    >>> Mailbox doesn't exist: DOES.NOT.EXIST (0.001 + 0.000 secs).;
    >>> Unable to open server nnimap+news.yhetil.org due to: make client
    >>> process failed: Network is unreachable, :name, *nnimap*,
    >>> :buffer, *nnimap news.yhetil.org nil *nntpd**, :host,
    >>> news.yhetil.org, :service, imap, :coding, nil
    >>> 
    >>> The "mailbox doesn't exist" thing seems to be misleading:
    >>> further attempts to connect to the server just gave me "network
    >>> is unreachable".  I wonder if this has something to do with my
    >>> tls settings? I'll set `gnutls-log-level' to 2 and try
    >>> again... Nope, same error.
    >>> 
    >>> This is on Emacs master, I'm not sure what else I can check
    >>> (though I still suspect it's something to do with connection
    >>> security).
    >> 
    >> Sorry, I switched it over to using a cert last night.  I should
    >> have sent a message here.  Hopefully just having
    >> 
    >> (nnimap "news.yhetil.org")
    >> 
    >> in gnus-secondary-select-methods will work for you.  I tried just
    >> now, and it worked on my end (Emacs 26.3).

    > Hey, that works great! It's a bit weird that it still asks for a
    > username and password, I wonder if there's any way to skip
    > that. I've never dealt with anonymous IMAP before -- is there
    > anything in the connection process that explicitly tells us "you
    > don't need to log on"?  Otherwise, I guess it doesn't hurt just to
    > save a bogus username/password and forget about it.

I noticed that too. I just hit return each time, which appears to be
acceptable. I was also asked if I want to save the credentials to my
autoinfo file. I hit yes and got these two lines:

machine news.yhetil.org-ephemeral login XXXX port imaps
machine news.yhetil.org login XXXX port imaps

I have only blanked out my usual machine user name - I entered no password.

Works well, though.

Best wishes,

Colin.




Colin Baxter
URL: http://www.Colin-Baxter.com


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-18 17:18                 ` Eric Abrahamsen
  2020-06-18 17:43                   ` Colin Baxter
@ 2020-06-19  3:01                   ` Kyle Meyer
  2020-06-19  8:02                     ` Eric Wong
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Kyle Meyer @ 2020-06-19  3:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric Abrahamsen; +Cc: emacs-orgmode, Eric Wong

Eric Abrahamsen writes:

> Hey, that works great! It's a bit weird that it still asks for a
> username and password, I wonder if there's any way to skip that. I've
> never dealt with anonymous IMAP before -- is there anything in the
> connection process that explicitly tells us "you don't need to log on"?

The server advertises AUTH=ANONYMOUS as a capability [*], so Gnus could
detect that and send "AUTHENTICATE ANONYMOUS", I _think_.

[*] https://public-inbox.org/meta/20200610070519.18252-1-e@yhbt.net/

> Otherwise, I guess it doesn't hurt just to save a bogus
> username/password and forget about it.

Yeah, I went with that approach.  But poking around a bit in nnimap.el,
it seems another option would be

    (nnimap "news.yhetil.org"
            (nnimap-authenticator anonymous))


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-19  3:01                   ` Kyle Meyer
@ 2020-06-19  8:02                     ` Eric Wong
  2020-06-19 17:37                       ` Eric Abrahamsen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Eric Wong @ 2020-06-19  8:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kyle Meyer; +Cc: Eric Abrahamsen, emacs-orgmode

Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> wrote:
> Eric Abrahamsen writes:
> 
> > Hey, that works great! It's a bit weird that it still asks for a
> > username and password, I wonder if there's any way to skip that. I've
> > never dealt with anonymous IMAP before -- is there anything in the
> > connection process that explicitly tells us "you don't need to log on"?
> 
> The server advertises AUTH=ANONYMOUS as a capability [*], so Gnus could
> detect that and send "AUTHENTICATE ANONYMOUS", I _think_.

Fwiw, mutt detects AUTH=ANONYMOUS and uses it automatically,
so I think it's reasonable for Gnus and others do the same.

> [*] https://public-inbox.org/meta/20200610070519.18252-1-e@yhbt.net/


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/
  2020-06-19  8:02                     ` Eric Wong
@ 2020-06-19 17:37                       ` Eric Abrahamsen
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2020-06-19 17:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eric Wong; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 874 bytes --]

Eric Wong <e@yhbt.net> writes:

> Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> wrote:
>> Eric Abrahamsen writes:
>> 
>> > Hey, that works great! It's a bit weird that it still asks for a
>> > username and password, I wonder if there's any way to skip that. I've
>> > never dealt with anonymous IMAP before -- is there anything in the
>> > connection process that explicitly tells us "you don't need to log on"?
>> 
>> The server advertises AUTH=ANONYMOUS as a capability [*], so Gnus could
>> detect that and send "AUTHENTICATE ANONYMOUS", I _think_.
>
> Fwiw, mutt detects AUTH=ANONYMOUS and uses it automatically,
> so I think it's reasonable for Gnus and others do the same.

Looks like it would be as simple as the attached diff. I have very
little confidence in my understanding of the potential ramifications,
though, so I'll open an Emacs bug and see what other people think.

Eric


[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #2: nnimap-anonymous.diff --]
[-- Type: text/x-patch, Size: 1140 bytes --]

diff --git a/lisp/gnus/gnus-registry.el b/lisp/gnus/gnus-registry.el
index f306889a7f..ebb1236674 100644
--- a/lisp/gnus/gnus-registry.el
+++ b/lisp/gnus/gnus-registry.el
@@ -837,6 +837,7 @@ gnus-registry-find-keywords
                 (completing-read "Keyword: " (gnus-registry-keywords) nil t)))
   (registry-lookup-secondary-value gnus-registry-db 'keyword keyword))
 
+
 (defun gnus-registry-register-message-ids ()
   "Register the Message-ID of every article in the group."
   (unless (gnus-parameter-registry-ignore gnus-newsgroup-name)
diff --git a/lisp/gnus/nnimap.el b/lisp/gnus/nnimap.el
index 3c4e75ede8..18d3cba173 100644
--- a/lisp/gnus/nnimap.el
+++ b/lisp/gnus/nnimap.el
@@ -509,7 +509,8 @@ nnimap-open-connection-1
 			  (split-string capabilities)))
 	    (unless (string-match-p "[*.] PREAUTH" greeting)
 	      (if (not (setq credentials
-			     (if (eq nnimap-authenticator 'anonymous)
+			     (if (or (eq nnimap-authenticator 'anonymous)
+				     (nnimap-capability "AUTH=ANONYMOUS"))
 				 (list "anonymous"
 				       (message-make-address))
                                ;; Look for the credentials based on

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

end of thread, back to index

Thread overview: 21+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-06-05  7:47 New mailing list archive at https://orgmode/list/ Bastien
2020-06-05  8:43 ` Marco Wahl
2020-06-06  8:15   ` Bastien
2020-06-05  9:39 ` Eric S Fraga
2020-06-05 10:51   ` Bastien
2020-06-05 11:24     ` Diego Zamboni
2020-06-05 14:04       ` Bastien
2020-06-05 15:47 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2020-06-08  3:29   ` Kyle Meyer
2020-06-08  4:39     ` Eric Abrahamsen
2020-06-08  4:55       ` Eric Wong
2020-06-12 16:08         ` Eric Abrahamsen
2020-06-14  6:17           ` Kyle Meyer
2020-06-18 16:39             ` Eric Abrahamsen
2020-06-18 17:11               ` Kyle Meyer
2020-06-18 17:18                 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2020-06-18 17:43                   ` Colin Baxter
2020-06-19  3:01                   ` Kyle Meyer
2020-06-19  8:02                     ` Eric Wong
2020-06-19 17:37                       ` Eric Abrahamsen
2020-06-08  4:47     ` Eric Wong

unofficial mirror of emacs-orgmode@gnu.org

Archives are clonable:
	git clone --mirror https://yhetil.org/orgmode/0 orgmode/git/0.git

	# If you have public-inbox 1.1+ installed, you may
	# initialize and index your mirror using the following commands:
	public-inbox-init -V2 orgmode orgmode/ https://yhetil.org/orgmode \
		emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
	public-inbox-index orgmode

Example config snippet for mirrors

Newsgroups are available over NNTP:
	nntp://news.yhetil.org/yhetil.emacs.orgmode
	nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.orgmode


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git