From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id OHqvIANvGmElGQEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2021 15:58:27 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id CJhwHANvGmHPMAAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2021 13:58:27 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C371715C1 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2021 15:58:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:43086 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mFd8D-0001z8-2u for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2021 09:58:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54518) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mFd7b-0001wy-Ib for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2021 09:57:47 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:48361) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mFd7Y-0005fa-UX for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Aug 2021 09:57:47 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A84C240107 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 2021 15:57:40 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1629122260; bh=Whost0Bu01SfnHcRI3qqhM8KWK1r2yZJmBJMrM8fSUc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=gDCSNtdxBDNNyFBIzthowAnM+ukcBvgHw41s6z6Z891lWqq0tQZ7mP8h8Hzp9cT0u ByX/79QKfeDao0zxVNY92ONx/AermTM1XWAzXiv4kjJKBdGuaRE6B1YZkZDKnmbVJp sLCIxR+NPsrMN0N9LKWHL7XPyTz9AP2VmpxWONo30UHUgqSKmG5rBP+rtC3IwjxzZ3 IQ4NoJoexRuwboSeJk1zvlXeyyfNQ/mhv7XxQ/k7/W1vxIsQgTWv2F6G+OuXcfGPsm FPFbTC5Vk3SHZL9let3N4tawizacd/L0npC7sdYs0n8qymu160ANcr5nj2GUo5/z8v vto9vtxO/fFeA== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4GpG2B5PlKz9rxS; Mon, 16 Aug 2021 15:57:38 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Juan_Manuel_Mac=C3=ADas?= To: mvar Subject: Re: Smart quotes for Greek (questions for a possible patch) References: <87r1ew5an0.fsf@posteo.net> <87o89yv1mz.fsf@cnu407c2zx.nsn-intra.net> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2021 13:57:37 +0000 In-Reply-To: <87o89yv1mz.fsf@cnu407c2zx.nsn-intra.net> (mvar's message of "Mon, 16 Aug 2021 00:28:20 +0300") Message-ID: <8735r91oha.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=maciaschain@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: public@protesilaos.com, orgmode Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1629122307; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Whost0Bu01SfnHcRI3qqhM8KWK1r2yZJmBJMrM8fSUc=; b=T2aRHiNaCOq8lxzlXsryP95k4h5tAVVyXLbvbX7wG2EmX6LZ3hz8yLMFmGr/CDHSdoOA2i 8cQMv2ss09m/SpDWD0qPDCu5XGaLYdvfsNxzUkdZLSPutUIVE5Cf978/k82HxttHFsiV7f rYuTm6iDDBDMyxDw1XsLPCfOOX/84lQUfen+e2f5jbuz72qFngZscwRC+etxW08pRBmJFy m4K5DVWhDNEBxs9T2n25nq53WVLsLmqRqf97BsAzYRH5i/EQx9zuWN/MF155/zeXE5GYGC MKtu4EvE3d8Kzht4cE0CZd0m8r3y0KQTlD04Q2f2xSkhLvYn6+DDqNlBK/q/tA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1629122307; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=pOuKe3KU+Ot2h4jiN9AB7N/kPSyrIEE31pCDsm8V7uIi0/O6A/dRDl4YEam667L7AxUgAh 6I7eXylyFPIAyaBrMxtwTyn1X++E3NXVDXHon2Yju13e/e6hrrX6QoBnKCSMYgTERGJ9BS sYHxEr4o8xDOiG+SgTMAvU+mIeFHMHD829RTrekvI4ONcE7ampADNN0QXHdVn2x+xNp1IB XVlObSy3LL7i0CAWK2h2JrwvGSd8fPrzjA13FAHvw99PcCFp4kLxIw80jgLmbmtYQpciv3 74D3IMmAYAT61bZaoE7ELZR9FGxAcWBfovUTkfK2M3arw2JaCtSiWcYE28YDOw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=gDCSNtdx; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (strict)" header.from=posteo.net (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.31 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=gDCSNtdx; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (strict)" header.from=posteo.net (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C371715C1 X-Spam-Score: -1.31 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: kfxM6xs7TaDI Hi Michalis. Thank you for your comments. mvar writes: > i can confirm the =C2=AB=C2=BB characters are the proper ones for the fir= st level > of quoting..Now about second level, personally i haven't seen such nestin= g in > ages but IIRC they should be the ones (or *very* similar) in the linked i= mage you posted -> > \textquotedblleft and \textquotedblright. I've no idea how these > translate to UTF. Note that the standard greek keyboards & keymaps do not= have > any of these characters mapped by default (not even =C2=AB=C2=BB ), most = people use the standard > english double/single quotes, at least in electronic writing (articles, > daily communication etc). > Protesilaos (cc) might have a better view on this matter. Yes, I think \textquotedblleft and \textquotedblright could be a good solution. Those are the first level quotes for English and other languages, and the second level quotes for Spanish, so in this case the Spanish settings in `org-export-smart-quotes-alist' could be copied for Greek. In Unicode they are equivalent to =E2=80=9C LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK U+201C=20 and =E2=80=9D RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK U+201D=20 In fact, the second quotes, U+201D, would be the correct ones for Greek (always, according to Haralambous). The only difference is for the opening quotes: in this case Greek would use (again, according to Haralambous) the character U+201F: =E2=80=9F (DOUBLE HIGH-REVERSED-9 QUOTAT= ION MARK), which is like the U+201C char, but upside down. In LuaTeX and XeTeX (and in HTML) there is no problem to represent that character, because these two TeX engines are based on Unicode. The problem would be the backward compatibility with pdfTeX. I haven't managed to get this character in pdfTeX using inputenc with the utf8 option. Therefore, we could leave for the second-level quotation marks the tandem U+201C/201D, as the lesser evil. Let's see what Protesilaos thinks. Best regards, Juan Manuel=20