Real-time, granular synchronization of .org files across devices?

Real-time, granular synchronization of .org files across devices?

[Ant via General discussions about Org-mode.]

Hi,

I've been using Emacs+Org Mode on my Linux and Android devices
for some time now and have been encountering some little synchronization
issues that have made it difficult for me to use Org as a task manager.

I've encountered no big issues regarding long documents or note writing, but
due to the frequently interleaved sessions between my laptop and my
smartphone - sometimes in areas without Internet connection -  it is kind of frequent
to have conflicting files generated from SyncThing among my Org agenda (task)
files, which are edited way more frequently.

One such concrete instance of this problem is when I clock-in an
entry from my smartphone and then try to edit another entry from my
laptop with no Internet connection.  Syncthing has no way to perform an
automatic conflict resolution and couldn't care less if the edits on the
.org file are disjointed or not.

Git can deal with conflicting files line-wise and apparently many users do use
it, but having to deal with pulling and pushing each time does not look
compelling and it also does not look intended for automatic synchronization.

Org mode looks incredibly versatile as a task manager and no alternative
turns out to be on par, but the synchronization issues grudgingly strive me from
using it. I'm writing this message to ask you if there's some
alternative solution I've not considered yet.

Alternatively, I'd also like to now if there could be in the future
solutions like obsidian-livesync
(https://github.com/vrtmrz/obsidian-livesync) which apparently allow to
perform live synchronization over multiple writes on the same file. I
don't really need to know if someone will work on it (which is obviously
unpredictable) but rather if it would be feasible or if Emacs (being
single threaded, for example) and Org could instead be a blocker.

Thank you in advance for your answers.
Cheers.

Re: Real-time, granular synchronization of .org files across devices?

[Ihor Radchenko]

Ant via "General discussions about Org-mode." <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
writes:

> I've been using Emacs+Org Mode on my Linux and Android devices
> for some time now and have been encountering some little synchronization
> issues that have made it difficult for me to use Org as a task manager.
> ...
> One such concrete instance of this problem is when I clock-in an
> entry from my smartphone and then try to edit another entry from my
> laptop with no Internet connection.  Syncthing has no way to perform an
> automatic conflict resolution and couldn't care less if the edits on the
> .org file are disjointed or not.

You can try https://github.com/bcpierce00/unison
Also, there is https://github.com/Artawower/orgnote.el (still in early development).

> Alternatively, I'd also like to now if there could be in the future
> solutions like obsidian-livesync
> (https://github.com/vrtmrz/obsidian-livesync) which apparently allow to
> perform live synchronization over multiple writes on the same file. I
> don't really need to know if someone will work on it (which is obviously
> unpredictable) but rather if it would be feasible or if Emacs (being
> single threaded, for example) and Org could instead be a blocker.

Single threading is not an issue. In fact, Emacs already has
https://code.librehq.com/qhong/crdt.el that provides live collaborative
editing. In theory, you might even make crdt.el work on your phone with
the new official Emacs Android port. Might be tricky though.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: Real-time, granular synchronization of .org files across devices?

[Günter Lichtenberg]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> Ant via "General discussions about Org-mode." <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
> writes:
>
>> I've been using Emacs+Org Mode on my Linux and Android devices
>> for some time now and have been encountering some little synchronization
>> issues that have made it difficult for me to use Org as a task manager.
>> ...
>> One such concrete instance of this problem is when I clock-in an
>> entry from my smartphone and then try to edit another entry from my
>> laptop with no Internet connection.  Syncthing has no way to perform an
>> automatic conflict resolution and couldn't care less if the edits on the
>> .org file are disjointed or not.

Hi

I use nextcloud to sync my org files, i.e. I have my own nextcloud
instance to sync my files between different computers
(laptop/PC/work/home). There are occasional file conflicts which have to
be solved, but rarely. Files are synchronised immediately on save (if
the devices are connected or as sson as you go online.

But you have to have a nextcloud instance running and I am not entirely
sure if that meets your requirements.

Cheers
gl

Re: Real-time, granular synchronization of .org files across devices?

[Ant via General discussions about Org-mode.]

> I use nextcloud to sync my org files, i.e. I have my own nextcloud
> instance to sync my files between different computers
> (laptop/PC/work/home). There are occasional file conflicts which have to
> be solved, but rarely. Files are synchronised immediately on save (if
> the devices are connected or as sson as you go online.

Thank you for the suggestion.

I do have a Nextcloud instance running on Hetzner, but it is not
really suited for syncing files: Syncthing, as a specialized tool, works
slightly better and works on Android, too. (Can't sync files on Android
using the official Nextcloud app). Plus, both of them have no way to
merge file based on their content

Re: Real-time, granular synchronization of .org files across devices?

[Ant via General discussions about Org-mode.]

> Single threading is not an issue. In fact, Emacs already has
> https://code.librehq.com/qhong/crdt.el that provides live collaborative
> editing. In theory, you might even make crdt.el work on your phone with
> the new official Emacs Android port. Might be tricky though.

That's really impressive! 

> You can try https://github.com/bcpierce00/unison
> Also, there is https://github.com/Artawower/orgnote.el (still in early development).

Unison appears to allow to set custom conflict resolution
methods. That's neat, but the whole synchronization process is not
automatic but must be initiated by the user. Might rather go the git
route at this point.

The orgnote project looks really awesome. A synchronization server would
greatly benefit Org Mode (However, if a CRDT based mechanism were ever to
be implemented and a parser would be needed, I wonder if it would be as
featureful as the Emacs bundled Org Element API). I'm gonna keep a close
eye at it.

Thank you for pointing out these two solutions. I wasn't aware of these before