How to use headlines and lists in Org to structure your thoughts?

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* How to use headlines and lists in Org to structure your thoughts?
@ 2010-12-14 17:13 Karl Maihofer
  2010-12-14 18:11 ` Jeff Horn
                   ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Karl Maihofer @ 2010-12-14 17:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

The ongoing discussion about inline tasks and drawers withhin lists
much depends on the way you use Org, I think. Perhaps it is a good
idea to brainstorm some fundamental aspects in regard to headlines and
lists.

Why and in which situations do we use lists? I use lists a lot to
write down my thoughts. I think there are mainly two reasons for this:
- Headlines are exported as headlines, not as list items. ;-)
- In Headlines you do not have word wrap. So you always have to phrase
   a headline and then write your text below this headline. For me it
   is much easier to use lists and write, write, write... with word
   wrap.

I think these are the reasons for me to use lists a lot. But if I do
so, I cannot define tasks in my texts - the core concept of Org. To
solve this dilemma, I can think of two different approaches:

1. Make it possible to use inline tasks withhin lists. This is what
    Nicolas implemented (thanks a lot!!!) and what works very well. But
    it is not a "nice" concept. We discussed this already and I
    understand the reasons why Carsten and Nicolas himself have
    reservations. It it only a workaround.
2. Make headlines behave like list items. This means enabling word
    wrap for headlines and export the headlines as lists. If a headline
    should be exported as a headline you could use a tag :HEADLINE:. If
    this would be possible, I cannot see a reason why I should make
    such extensive use of lists.

What do you think? How do you use lists? Do you think the second
approach would make sense? Or do I miss something essential?

Regards,
Karl

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* Re: How to use headlines and lists in Org to structure your thoughts?
  2010-12-14 17:13 How to use headlines and lists in Org to structure your thoughts? Karl Maihofer
@ 2010-12-14 18:11 ` Jeff Horn
  2010-12-14 19:56 ` Alan L Tyree
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Jeff Horn @ 2010-12-14 18:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Karl Maihofer; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Karl,

I've struggled with this a lot as well. I basically just use headlines
for sectioning, lists and text for everything else. Sometimes I
outline exclusively using headings until I start to write, at which
point most are demoted and expanded into paragraphs.

> I think these are the reasons for me to use lists a lot. But if I do
> so, I cannot define tasks in my texts - the core concept of Org. To
> solve this dilemma, I can think of two different approaches:

This has been frustrating for me as well! The saving feature for me
has been org-capture, which I've configured to save a link back to the
file from which it was called. As long as items show up in the agenda,
I'm less than picky about whether they show up in project notes.

> 1. Make it possible to use inline tasks withhin lists. This is what
>   Nicolas implemented (thanks a lot!!!) and what works very well. But
>   it is not a "nice" concept. We discussed this already and I
>   understand the reasons why Carsten and Nicolas himself have
>   reservations. It it only a workaround.
> 2. Make headlines behave like list items. This means enabling word
>   wrap for headlines and export the headlines as lists. If a headline
>   should be exported as a headline you could use a tag :HEADLINE:. If
>   this would be possible, I cannot see a reason why I should make
>   such extensive use of lists.

Having said that, I think having TODOs in list items would be useful
for me. I haven't followed the discussion regarding Nick's patches, so
something like the following may not be feasible:

- TODO A list item todo, with properties.
  :PROPERTIES:
  :NIFTY: t
  :END:

But, I can imagine using such a feature often.

Best,
Jeff

-- 
Jeffrey Horn
Graduate Lecturer and PhD Student in Economics
George Mason University

(704) 271-4797
jhorn@gmu.edu
jrhorn424@gmail.com

http://www.failuretorefrain.com/jeff/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* Re: How to use headlines and lists in Org to structure your thoughts?
  2010-12-14 17:13 How to use headlines and lists in Org to structure your thoughts? Karl Maihofer
  2010-12-14 18:11 ` Jeff Horn
@ 2010-12-14 19:56 ` Alan L Tyree
  2010-12-18 17:33   ` Karl Maihofer
  2010-12-15 19:42 ` Eric S Fraga
  2010-12-18 20:00 ` Carsten Dominik
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Alan L Tyree @ 2010-12-14 19:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode

On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 18:13:25 +0100
Karl Maihofer <ignoramus@gmx.de> wrote:

> The ongoing discussion about inline tasks and drawers withhin lists
> much depends on the way you use Org, I think. Perhaps it is a good
> idea to brainstorm some fundamental aspects in regard to headlines and
> lists.
> 
<SNIP>
> 2. Make headlines behave like list items. This means enabling word
>     wrap for headlines and export the headlines as lists. If a
> headline should be exported as a headline you could use a
> tag :HEADLINE:. If this would be possible, I cannot see a reason why
> I should make such extensive use of lists.

For those old enough to remember PC-Outline, that is the way that
headlines behaved. I'm not sure, but I think that Grandview also had a
similar structure.

Cheers,
Alan


> 
> What do you think? How do you use lists? Do you think the second
> approach would make sense? Or do I miss something essential?
> 
> Regards,
> Karl
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
> 


-- 
Alan L Tyree                    http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
Tel:  04 2748 6206

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* Re: How to use headlines and lists in Org to structure your thoughts?
  2010-12-14 19:56 ` Alan L Tyree
@ 2010-12-18 17:33   ` Karl Maihofer
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Karl Maihofer @ 2010-12-18 17:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-orgmode


Zitat von Alan L Tyree <alantyree@gmail.com>:
>> The ongoing discussion about inline tasks and drawers withhin lists
>> much depends on the way you use Org, I think. Perhaps it is a good
>> idea to brainstorm some fundamental aspects in regard to headlines and
>> lists.
>> 2. Make headlines behave like list items. This means enabling word
>>     wrap for headlines and export the headlines as lists. If a
>> headline should be exported as a headline you could use a
>> tag :HEADLINE:. If this would be possible, I cannot see a reason why
>> I should make such extensive use of lists.
>
> For those old enough to remember PC-Outline, that is the way that
> headlines behaved. I'm not sure, but I think that Grandview also had a
> similar structure.

That's interesting. So perhaps it is worth to consider an option to  
make this possible in Org?!

I think this would solve the problems some of us have with lists.

Regards,
Karl

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* Re: How to use headlines and lists in Org to structure your thoughts?
  2010-12-14 17:13 How to use headlines and lists in Org to structure your thoughts? Karl Maihofer
  2010-12-14 18:11 ` Jeff Horn
  2010-12-14 19:56 ` Alan L Tyree
@ 2010-12-15 19:42 ` Eric S Fraga
  2010-12-18 20:00 ` Carsten Dominik
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Eric S Fraga @ 2010-12-15 19:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Karl Maihofer; +Cc: emacs-orgmode

Karl Maihofer <ignoramus@gmx.de> writes:

> The ongoing discussion about inline tasks and drawers withhin lists
> much depends on the way you use Org, I think. Perhaps it is a good
> idea to brainstorm some fundamental aspects in regard to headlines and
> lists.
>
> Why and in which situations do we use lists? 

I use lists for a number of reasons but one specific one that cannot be
handled by headlines is to have automatic numbering.

More generally, headlines are part of the structure and lists are part
of the content.

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 23.2.1
: using Org-mode version 7.4 (release_7.4.26.g8eee)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* Re: How to use headlines and lists in Org to structure your thoughts?
  2010-12-14 17:13 How to use headlines and lists in Org to structure your thoughts? Karl Maihofer
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2010-12-15 19:42 ` Eric S Fraga
@ 2010-12-18 20:00 ` Carsten Dominik
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2010-12-18 20:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Karl Maihofer; +Cc: emacs-orgmode


On Dec 14, 2010, at 6:13 PM, Karl Maihofer wrote:

> The ongoing discussion about inline tasks and drawers withhin lists
> much depends on the way you use Org, I think. Perhaps it is a good
> idea to brainstorm some fundamental aspects in regard to headlines and
> lists.
>
> Why and in which situations do we use lists? I use lists a lot to
> write down my thoughts. I think there are mainly two reasons for this:
> - Headlines are exported as headlines, not as list items. ;-)

This is, in fact, not correct.  Headlines beyond a certain
level (3 by default) are exported as lists.  You can change
the level where this change happens in a number of different
ways, see for example:

#+OPTIONS: H:2

- Carsten

> - In Headlines you do not have word wrap. So you always have to phrase
>  a headline and then write your text below this headline. For me it
>  is much easier to use lists and write, write, write... with word
>  wrap.
>
> I think these are the reasons for me to use lists a lot. But if I do
> so, I cannot define tasks in my texts - the core concept of Org. To
> solve this dilemma, I can think of two different approaches:
>
> 1. Make it possible to use inline tasks withhin lists. This is what
>   Nicolas implemented (thanks a lot!!!) and what works very well. But
>   it is not a "nice" concept. We discussed this already and I
>   understand the reasons why Carsten and Nicolas himself have
>   reservations. It it only a workaround.
> 2. Make headlines behave like list items. This means enabling word
>   wrap for headlines and export the headlines as lists. If a headline
>   should be exported as a headline you could use a tag :HEADLINE:. If
>   this would be possible, I cannot see a reason why I should make
>   such extensive use of lists.
>
> What do you think? How do you use lists? Do you think the second
> approach would make sense? Or do I miss something essential?
>
> Regards,
> Karl
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2010-12-18 20:00 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2010-12-14 17:13 How to use headlines and lists in Org to structure your thoughts? Karl Maihofer
2010-12-14 18:11 ` Jeff Horn
2010-12-14 19:56 ` Alan L Tyree
2010-12-18 17:33   ` Karl Maihofer
2010-12-15 19:42 ` Eric S Fraga
2010-12-18 20:00 ` Carsten Dominik

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