AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group

AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group

[Hellekin O. Wolf]

Hello list,

I'm quite impressed posting on this list of genious coders who brought
such a powerful tool as org-mode.  Not honey-licking your shoes.
Being allergic to linear time and its implementation (calendars,
clocks...), I found org-mode of great help when dealing with normal
people.

Using the ! flag to Orgmode TODO states, I can track time without
having to look at it.  Wew!

But let's get to the point.  Jaromil, Yaakov and I started AutOrg, as
a way to combine different goals, the main drive being Yaakov wanting
us to use GTD in org-mode.  Thus we started thinking about AutOrg, an
autonomous, distributed information system based on Orgmode and Git.

One of the obvious issue that came up concerns the ways to "share
GTD", i.e. to apply it to groups.  GTD is a methodology for the
individual, and each individual tends to tailor it to her own
world-view.  I explain the kind of issues more in depth in the AutOrg
documentation[1], but I want to keep this reasonably short.

How do you guys use CATEGORIES, PROPERTIES and TAGS in combination
with TODO states and Org-Agenda to optimize your GTD workflow?

What strategy do you take when you have a personal SEQ_TODO and need
to work with other people, using a different SEQ_TODO?

Cheers,

==
hk

[1] http://code.dyne.org/index.cgi?url=autorg/tree/doc/TODO.org
section "GTD for groups"

Re: AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group

[Bernt Hansen]

"Hellekin O. Wolf" <hellekin@cepheide.org> writes:

> How do you guys use CATEGORIES, PROPERTIES and TAGS in combination
> with TODO states and Org-Agenda to optimize your GTD workflow?

I use CATEGORIES mainly as a visual cue in my agenda to help categories
tasks.  Other than that it doesn't really do anything in my setup.

TAGS I use for context and other convenient filters for grouping tasks.
You can easily filter (removing or adding tasks) in the agenda by tag.

I use PROPERTIES for effort estimates, blocking control, recording when
tasks repeated last (for cyclic tasks) etc.

TODO states are for action items (TODO, NEXT, DONE, CANCELLED, WAITING
etc).

> What strategy do you take when you have a personal SEQ_TODO and need
> to work with other people, using a different SEQ_TODO?

I would defined the SEQ_TODO in the file with #+TODO: TODO NEXT | DONE
(or whatever is appropriate for that file).  That overrides any global
todo settings.

All of my gory setup details are at http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html

HTH,
Bernt

Re: AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group

[Hellekin O. Wolf]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 06:09:36PM -0400, Bernt Hansen wrote:
> 
> I would defined the SEQ_TODO in the file with #+TODO: TODO NEXT | DONE
> (or whatever is appropriate for that file).  That overrides any global
> todo settings.
>
*** Thank you for your suggestions, Bernt!

> All of my gory setup details are at http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html
>
*** Yes, I've seen that before.  That tutorial has my preference so
far. :)

==
hk

Re: AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group

[Sven Bretfeld]

Hi Hellekin

"Hellekin O. Wolf" <hellekin@cepheide.org> writes:

> How do you guys use CATEGORIES, PROPERTIES and TAGS in combination
> with TODO states and Org-Agenda to optimize your GTD workflow?

I'm also into GTD. This is a typical entry I use for a project.

* Misc Office
** Rewrite study course documents               :PROJECT:
*** NEXT Rework Text                           	:HOME:
    :PROPERTIES:
    :TRIGGER:  chain-siblings(NEXT)
    :END:
*** Mail Text to Volkhard			:OFFICE:
*** Discuss Text with Volkhard                  :OFFICE:
    :PROPERTIES:
    :dowith:   volkhard
    :END:
*** Mail Text to other Profs			:OFFICE:

Explanation:

First level is for divisions of my life (here: Misc Office, others are
Family, Teaching, Research etc.). 

The second level I use to denote projects (in the GTD meaning) or for
some small tasks which include only one physical action. In the first
case I use no todo keyword and only the PROJECT tag (to create a list of
projects and to define what a stuck project is). In the second case, I
would give the NEXT keyword already on the second level (not shown
here).

The third level is for the physical actions of the project. As you see,
only the first has a todo keyword (NEXT). The others are dependent from
the first (cannot be done before the first is done) and have only a
context tag. My context tags include things like HOME, OFFICE, SHOPPING,
TRAIN etc. When the first NEXT action is done, the next NEXT action in
the list gains the NEXT todo keyword automatically; this is what the
TRIGGER property cares for. In that way my Agenda Views (defined as
NEXT/HOME, NEXT/OFFICE etc.) display only next actions that can be done
immediately. 

As I'm working in a team, I have long searched for a way to tell Orgmode
who is with me at a certain moment and display the things that have to
be done together with the(se) person(s). I have recently discovered
org-secretary for that purpose. For the above case, if Volkard enters my
office, I tell Emacs that he is now with me, and a special agenda view
displays all the things I want to do with him. This is what the "dowith"
property is for.

Apart from PROJECTS and contexts I have two more tags defined: BIGROCK
and MIT. The first is given to projects that I want to concentrate on
this week (never more than 3 projects contain that tag). MIT means "Most
Important Thing (of the day)". I use this tag to mark three to four NEXT
actions every night. These are the first things I care for on the next
day. 

> What strategy do you take when you have a personal SEQ_TODO and need
> to work with other people, using a different SEQ_TODO?

Have a look on org-secretary.

Greetings,

Sven

Re: AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group

[Hellekin O. Wolf]

Wow, thank you Sven...

On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 08:41:22AM +0200, Sven Bretfeld wrote:
> 
> The third level is for the physical actions of the project. As you see,
> only the first has a todo keyword (NEXT). The others are dependent from
> the first (cannot be done before the first is done) and have only a
> context tag. My context tags include things like HOME, OFFICE, SHOPPING,
> TRAIN etc. When the first NEXT action is done, the next NEXT action in
> the list gains the NEXT todo keyword automatically; this is what the
> TRIGGER property cares for. In that way my Agenda Views (defined as
> NEXT/HOME, NEXT/OFFICE etc.) display only next actions that can be done
> immediately. 
>
*** I like the concept of "chained actions" and the TRIGGER property.
Very smart, the auto-assignment to NEXT keeps you busy and focused,
and saves a number of key-strokes.  

But I guess that implies multiple NEXT items.  Do you maintain several
of those, or one per project?  Maybe I'm wrong--I didn't even read the
GTD book thoroughly yet--but I like having *one* NEXT action, so that
I don't get stuck with too many "next" things.  I can understand one
NEXT action per project, but several within a single project raises
internal warnings.

> As I'm working in a team, I have long searched for a way to tell Orgmode
> who is with me at a certain moment and display the things that have to
> be done together with the(se) person(s). I have recently discovered
> org-secretary for that purpose. For the above case, if Volkard enters my
> office, I tell Emacs that he is now with me, and a special agenda view
> displays all the things I want to do with him. This is what the "dowith"
> property is for.
>
*** All right, so I'm looking up org-secretary.el.  I like this
approach.

> Apart from PROJECTS and contexts I have two more tags defined: BIGROCK
> and MIT. The first is given to projects that I want to concentrate on
> this week (never more than 3 projects contain that tag). MIT means "Most
> Important Thing (of the day)". I use this tag to mark three to four NEXT
> actions every night. These are the first things I care for on the next
> day. 
>
*** So you do maintain multiple NEXT actions per project?

Thank you again for your invaluable input.

==
hk

Re: AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group

[Jason McBrayer]

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 9:00 AM, Hellekin O. Wolf <hellekin@cepheide.org> wrote:
> *** So you do maintain multiple NEXT actions per project?

Butting in on this, since I GTD with org-mode, and think the autorg
site is kind of neat, I do maintain multiple NEXT actions per project.
The caveat is that they must meet the following conditions:

1. Be independent of each other
2. All be currently doable in terms of resources and dependencies
3. Be feasible to get done before the next weekly review

Having more than one NEXT action on a project lets you move a project
forward even when you don't have the time/energy for one of them. The
caveat is that you can't let it become a to-do list. That's what #3 is
meant to avoid.

I struggle with this, but for me it's mainly a result of having too
many projects, so limiting myself to one next action on a project
wouldn't be that helpful.

-- 
Jason F. McBrayer
http://jfm.carcosa.net/

Re: AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group

[Sven Bretfeld]

Hi Hellekin

"Hellekin O. Wolf" <hellekin@cepheide.org> writes:

> On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 08:41:22AM +0200, Sven Bretfeld wrote:
>> 
>> The third level is for the physical actions of the project. As you see,
>> only the first has a todo keyword (NEXT). The others are dependent from
>> the first (cannot be done before the first is done) and have only a
>> context tag. My context tags include things like HOME, OFFICE, SHOPPING,
>> TRAIN etc. When the first NEXT action is done, the next NEXT action in
>> the list gains the NEXT todo keyword automatically; this is what the
>> TRIGGER property cares for. In that way my Agenda Views (defined as
>> NEXT/HOME, NEXT/OFFICE etc.) display only next actions that can be done
>> immediately. 
>>
> *** I like the concept of "chained actions" and the TRIGGER property.
> Very smart, the auto-assignment to NEXT keeps you busy and focused,
> and saves a number of key-strokes.  
>
> But I guess that implies multiple NEXT items.  Do you maintain several
> of those, or one per project?  Maybe I'm wrong--I didn't even read the
> GTD book thoroughly yet--but I like having *one* NEXT action, so that
> I don't get stuck with too many "next" things.  I can understand one
> NEXT action per project, but several within a single project raises
> internal warnings.

I think one of the main points in GTD is splitting up a task into
multiple physical actions (potential NEXT steps) which can be done one
after another depending on the available time, energy level and context.
Usually they build up a procedural chain of actions that gradually bring
the project to fulfillment. Sometimes there are actions that don't form
part of the chain, because they can be done independently from previous
steps. I usually put these things at the end of the project's
action-list an give them the NEXT status right from the start. For
example, this weekend I made my flat secure for my 8 months old son who
just starts to crawl and touches every cable he can put his hands on:

* Family
** Secure the apartment for the baby       :PROJECT:
*** NEXT Buy items [0/4]                   :SHOPPING:
    - [ ] devices to secure power outlets
    - [ ] sticky tape
    - [ ] wire protecting sleeves
    - [ ] new screws for the baby's bed
    :PROPERTIES:
    :TRIGGER:  chain-siblings(NEXT)
    :END:
*** secure all power outlets [0/6]         :HOME:
    - [ ] living room
    - [ ] bathroom
    - [ ] sleeping room
    - [ ] child's room
    - [ ] corridor
    - [ ] kitchen
*** tie all cables with tape               :HOME:
*** fix the baby bed                       :HOME:
*** NEXT remove loose objects from small tables :HOME:

The project has 5 physical actions. Four of them are dependent: First I
have to buy what I need, then I can start working. So I buy the items
and tick them of in the list one after another as I buy them (C-c C-c in
such a list ticks the items and changes the number in the brackets).
After I have them all, I set "Buy items" to DONE. Then "secure all power
outlets" automatically gets the NEXT status, and so on.

As you see, the fifth item "remove loose objects from small tables" can
be done without buying anything. So I give it the NEXT status right from
the start. It's important to place this item at the end of the list, so
that it can't spoil the chain, if I give it the DONE status before the
chained list is complete. In fact, for Emacs the last item is part of
the chain, but that doesn't really matter in practice. All that could
happen, is that I clear the tables before I have finished the other
parts and set the fifth item to DONE. When I, then, set the "baby bed"
item to DONE, the "loose objects" will get NEXT status again (I'm not
quite sure if that really happens, I can't remember such a case).

D. Allen recommends that you make a brainstorm when you are planning a
project. What are the things I have to do in order to realize the plan?
With orgmode you can make brainstorming very easy, just type M-RET and
hack in what occurs to your mind. After that, sort the items into
(sequential or independent) physical actions, references and so on. More
often than not, your collection will still feature some items which are
not physical actions, but sub-projects. If you notice that, you have to
break them further down into physical actions. But, I think, you don't
have to be too dogmatic with that. "Fix the baby bed" in fact consisted
of more than one action (change screws, fix a certain plank, tie a
cushion), but I had them all in mind and I planned to do them all
simultaneously. So I didn't note them too accurately.

Greetings,

Sven